6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Dean's lack of athleticism?  First I've heard of that.

He's small at 6'0" and slow(4.74).

On the other hand his RAS score is ... N/A did not do combine drills.

If its the first time you heard that he is small and slow then you have not been paying attention.

 

I like Dean and hope he's a stud but his production outweighed his athleticism.

If he was 6'4" and ran a 4.52 he'd have been gone before the Eagles could have drafted him.

FWIW, Zach Thomas was 5'11" and ran a 4.85 and he just had a very nice weekend.  Athleticism is not everything.

3 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Dean's lack of athleticism?  First I've heard of that.

It's tough to quantify his athleticism through combine numbers and such as he didn't do Anything other than height weight etc because of his Injury but he reportedly ran a high 4.7 which at his smaller size isn't overly fast.

He's not an athletic freak like some guys.

Like I said if I'm having a guy at MLB who is really small by NFL standards I'd want him to make up for that lack of size with above average athletic traits and as far as I know he doesn't have above average athletic traits.

He reportedly has a high football IQ and good Instincts and that can make up for a lot, ask TJ Edwards but Dean's lack of size combined with average athleticism could limit his success.

We'll see I hope the best for the kid, I'm not a fan of little MLBs.

Sam Mills was the exception not the rule and while he's bigger than mills Dean is still on the smaller side of NFL MLBs.

 

 

4 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

He's small at 6'0" and slow(4.74).

On the other hand his RAS score is ... N/A did not do combine drills.

If its the first time you heard that he is small and slow then you have not been paying attention.

 

I like Dean and hope he's a stud but his production outweighed his athleticism.

If he was 6'4" and ran a 4.52 he'd have been gone before the Eagles could have drafted him.

FWIW, Zach Thomas was 5'11" and ran a 4.85 and he just had a very nice weekend.  Athleticism is not everything.

Loved Zach Thomas and they're comparable height weight and athletically 

Dean 5'11" about 225-230

Zach Thomas Same Height and around 225-230 pounds.

Both slower 40 times 

Having said that Zach Thomas is the exception not the rule 

Only other guy I can think of is London Fletcher, but he was a bit thicker than Dean but short guy not a hyper athlete but super instinctive and high motor tackling machine.

Other worry about Dean is his recent inability to stay healthy and if that's going to be a problem going forward.

6 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

He's small at 6'0" and slow(4.74).

On the other hand his RAS score is ... N/A did not do combine drills.

If its the first time you heard that he is small and slow then you have not been paying attention.

 

I like Dean and hope he's a stud but his production outweighed his athleticism.

If he was 6'4" and ran a 4.52 he'd have been gone before the Eagles could have drafted him.

FWIW, Zach Thomas was 5'11" and ran a 4.85 and he just had a very nice weekend.  Athleticism is not everything.

You weren't reading what I've posted very well.

1 - I previously pointed out his lack of size.  

2 - I specifically discussed athleticism, which is different from speed.  

3 - In the post that I discussed his size, I specifically pointed to Zach Thomas (and Sam Mills).  

 

His short shuttle was very good, IIRC.  4.32, which is pretty close to outstanding for a LB.  And for me, a SS time is much more meaningful than a 40 time for a LB.  

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/stats/Nakobe-Dean-LB-Georgia

43 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You weren't reading what I've posted very well.

1 - I previously pointed out his lack of size.  

2 - I specifically discussed athleticism, which is different from speed.  

3 - In the post that I discussed his size, I specifically pointed to Zach Thomas (and Sam Mills).  

 

His short shuttle was very good, IIRC.  4.32, which is pretty close to outstanding for a LB.  And for me, a SS time is much more meaningful than a 40 time for a LB.  

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/stats/Nakobe-Dean-LB-Georgia

https://the-jet-sweep.com/2022-nfl-draft-scouting-report-nakobe-dean/

Yup, that short shuttle shows up on tape in the run game and his 40+ inch vertical shows up on tape as a Blitzer and as said my biggest worry with him was in pass coverage where this article states he only had had 4 in completion towards him on 73 targets in coverage.

Part of that could be explained by his lack of length and his lack of speed, which in todays pass happy league could be a problem as the guys he will be covering in zone or man are bigger faster stronger than in college where he struggled in coverage.

I didn't realize he had any recorded shuttle or jump numbers , this show above average explosion and change of direction traits and as you said are key to playing LB but that speed score in today's NFL combined with his lack of length could really limit him.

We'll see. Maybe his instincts and IQ and motor make up for it.

I hope  proves me wrong just like hurts did.

Personally I don't see much in Dean as a pro but again we'll see and I hope he proves me wrong.

From the numbers we have Dean is not an outstanding athlete other than as a jumper. Feel free to lie to yourself all day long.

1 hour ago, just relax said:

I’d like to expand on that. There seems to be broad dislike of Morrow here. Not personally, I mean, but as a decent LB. I did not follow the Bears at all last year but I watched our game with them again recently and came away quite impressed with his play. Thought he was their best defensive player. He can run, he’s quick, and he showed good recognition. At least that’s what I saw. Not the biggest guy, to be sure, but still a good LB. They played mostly 4-2-5 and he made a bunch of tackles and played well in space, in my limited view. Now it seems he’s being kicked around. Why is that? What am I missing?

Not sure you’re missing anything, really.   I think you’re seeing the reaction from a fanbase that knows their team has not valued the LB position over the years for one thing.  On top of that, regarding Morrow specifically, I think many see a guy from a bad defense, and a guy that bad defense didn’t want to keep.  There are some logical reasons for the doubt he receives 

Dean will be good.  The haters will look silly.

 

14 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

Dean will be good.  The haters will look silly.

And if Dean doesn't look good the shiners will look silly 

Having said that I don't care.

I'm trying to give an objectionable opinion of what I've observed.

To say he's going to be good because of what he did in college isn't a compelling argument as lots of good college players flame out in the pros.

Saying one thinks he'll be good because of a few snaps of garbage time against backups isn't much either.

I think it's tough to say either way what dean.l will or won't be.

To date I haven't seen anything from him that tells me he'll be good..

All I know is that he is small and slow by NFL standards and that he's reportedly a hard worker with good Instincts football IQ and high motor, yet again much of that hasn't been seen in the field of play yet.

I hope he does well and becomes an all pro but history of NFL suggests that MLBs at his size more often don't succeed than they do.

We'll see, hopefully he's the exception not the rule.

 

13 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

From the numbers we have Dean is not an outstanding athlete other than as a jumper. Feel free to lie to yourself all day long.

I never said he was an outstanding athlete either.   But, keep misunderstanding what I did say as much as you want.

I’m not really down in Nakobe, but I was never really high on him after falling as far as he did in the draft. It’s the same reason I’m not overly optimistic about Ringo. Players fall farther than expected for a reason. I don’t think the Eagles outsmarted anyone with these picks.

That doesn’t mean he’s doomed to fail. The team liked him enough to still take him in round 3 and claim. They claimed they were between him and Jurgens in round 2 (that’s probably a lie). I liked what I saw in limited play as well. 

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

I never said he was an outstanding athlete either.   But, keep misunderstanding what I did say as much as you want.

I said he's not an athlete. You made a weak qualification. You discounted speed. 🤣

I proved you wrong with the RAS sheet. His shuttle was mediocre.

 

I direct quoted you on the lack of athleticism comment (first you heard of it)

I then proved to you he lacks athleticism (relative to top end NFL linebackers). Here is more proof with Georgia teammate comparisons.

 

Here is Quay Walker's RAS

 

Here is Nolan Smith's

 

If you pretended that size, weight, and speed have nothing to do with athleticism and that the only thing that defined athleticism was jumping high then the "first I heard of it" comment starts to make sense.

16 minutes ago, Utebird said:

And if Dean doesn't look good the shiners will look silly 

Having said that I don't care.

I'm trying to give an objectionable opinion of what I've observed.

To say he's going to be good because of what he did in college isn't a compelling argument as lots of good college players flame out in the pros.

Saying one thinks he'll be good because of a few snaps of garbage time against backups isn't much either.

I think it's tough to say either way what dean.l will or won't be.

To date I haven't seen anything from him that tells me he'll be good..

All I know is that he is small and slow by NFL standards and that he's reportedly a hard worker with good Instincts football IQ and high motor, yet again much of that hasn't been seen in the field of play yet.

I hope he does well and becomes an all pro but history of NFL suggests that MLBs at his size more often don't succeed than they do.

We'll see, hopefully he's the exception not the rule.

 

 

Natural instincts and skill is something that isn't goi g to show up on some overrated RAS chart and it isn't going to shoe in some camp cupcake training camp setting.  When Dean gets in there finally this season he will pop and immediately make his impact felt.  The defense will run through him and getting people lines up with adjustments.  He will be making plays in the backfield consistently.

The thing is, there aren't a ton of great LBs in the NFL. Excluding EDGE guys. Traditional LBs. This NFL doesn't have a Ray Lewis or an Urlacher or a Patrick Willis anymore.

So I don't even think Dean going in the 3rd was that alarming considering how traditional LBs aren't valued as much. You only see a couple go in the first round each year.

I never thought it was a lock he'd be a first rounder going into the draft.

In the 2023 draft only one went in the first round. Jack Campbell. And I think only 2 or 3 before round 3.

1 minute ago, SkippyX said:

I said he's not an athlete. You made a weak qualification. You discounted speed. 🤣

I proved you wrong with the RAS sheet. His shuttle was mediocre.

 

I direct quoted you on the lack of athleticism comment (first you heard of it)

I then proved to you he lacks athleticism (relative to top end NFL linebackers). Here is more proof with Georgia teammate comparisons.

 

Here is Quay Walker's RAS

 

Here is Nolan Smith's

 

If you pretended that size, weight, and speed have nothing to do with athleticism and that the only thing that defined athleticism was jumping high then the "first I heard of it" comment starts to make sense.

You continue to mischaracterize my statements, so... we're done here.  Have a good evening.

There are still a handful of elite LBs.

Roquan Smith

Bobby Wagner  (might finally be slowing down a bit)

Shaq Leonard (hurt last year)

Tremaine Edmunds

Fred Warner (when not screwed into the turf by Hurts' option skills)

 

There are less as a whole because lots of LBs like Reddick (and Smith most likely) and Parsons are considered EDGE now instead of LB.

Many of the stars are in that position.

The Eagles Will and Mike LB sports are very much Do Your Job roles.

The stars are on the line and in the secondary so you can be TJ Edwards or Kyzir White and do well.

We just don't know if any of the current guys can be good (not great) enough to fill those roles well.

 

Like others have said, I also have no worries about Dean for smarts. instincts, play calls, and being in the right position.

25 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

Natural instincts and skill is something that isn't goi g to show up on some overrated RAS chart and it isn't going to shoe in some camp cupcake training camp setting.  When Dean gets in there finally this season he will pop and immediately make his impact felt.  The defense will run through him and getting people lines up with adjustments.  He will be making plays in the backfield consistently.

Sure, I mean sounds great and all but none of what you posted is based on observable reality , it's just conjecture.

I mean I hope he pans out and I've heard about his instincts and motor and football IQ and work ethic but none of that means anything until he proves it on the field and he hasn't driven anything yet 

Take Ty Detmer for instance, Heisman dinner broke multiple college passing records, high football IQ and instincts high character work ethic tough as nails, but none of it mattered in the end because his physical limitations being 6 ft 185 pounds and having a noodle arm cancelled out the rest of the good.

We'll see if Dean's other traits can overcome his lack of NFL size and elite athletic ability as said I hope he's the exception not the rule.fingers crossed 🤞

15 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

There are still a handful of elite LBs.

Roquan Smith

Bobby Wagner  (might finally be slowing down a bit)

Shaq Leonard (hurt last year)

Tremaine Edmunds

Fred Warner (when not screwed into the turf by Hurts' option skills)

 

There are less as a whole because lots of LBs like Reddick (and Smith most likely) and Parsons are considered EDGE now instead of LB.

Many of the stars are in that position.

For the record I wanted Wagner over Kendricks.

I'd seen Wagner at Utah St and though he'd be good 

Also watched Warner at BYU and thought he'd be good and thought the eagles would be interested. Oh well🤷‍♂️

4 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's a bit of a weak argument.  Yes, they are closer, but coaches also make mistakes all the time too.  So, while they may have more information, they can draw the wrong conclusions with that information.  The coaches are also sometimes stuck with letting their expectations of a player get in the way of a proper evaluation.  Maybe this was a kid they really wanted in the draft, so they will force him on to the field because they want him to be what they projected him to be... but he just never becomes that guy.  

 

If we can't share our opinions on players on the EMB, because the coaches know more than we do... then exactly what are we here to do?

Sharing opinions … absolutely.  Believing those opinions are fact … not so much.

All people are flawed.  Coaches are no different.  We are all descendants of Adam and Eve.  The issue is much less whether coaches are better decision makers, but rather to the relative access to meaningful (direct source) information.  Coaches have considerably superir information.

There is no singular right answer to almost all situations … multiple answers are right.  A lot depends on context.

 

The blog fantasy league needs one more. Who wants in?

32 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Sure, I mean sounds great and all but none of what you posted is based on observable reality , it's just conjecture.

I mean I hope he pans out and I've heard about his instincts and motor and football IQ and work ethic but none of that means anything until he proves it on the field and he hasn't driven anything yet 

Take Ty Detmer for instance, Heisman dinner broke multiple college passing records, high football IQ and instincts high character work ethic tough as nails, but none of it mattered in the end because his physical limitations being 6 ft 185 pounds and having a noodle arm cancelled out the rest of the good.

We'll see if Dean's other traits can overcome his lack of NFL size and elite athletic ability as said I hope he's the exception not the rule.fingers crossed 🤞

 

Listen some people have the eye of the tiger and some don't.  I do.  I saw it with Hurts.  I saw it with Blankenship.  I saw it with Jurgens.  I saw it with DeVonta.  I see it with Dean.

6 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Yeah, I don’t think saying Dean hasn’t stood out generates clicks or engagement in any meaningful way. People way too often default to that narrative. 

Sayeth the journalist, right?

2 hours ago, SkippyX said:

He's small at 6'0" and slow(4.74).

On the other hand his RAS score is ... N/A did not do combine drills.

If its the first time you heard that he is small and slow then you have not been paying attention.

 

I like Dean and hope he's a stud but his production outweighed his athleticism.

If he was 6'4" and ran a 4.52 he'd have been gone before the Eagles could have drafted him.

FWIW, Zach Thomas was 5'11" and ran a 4.85 and he just had a very nice weekend.  Athleticism is not everything.

Dean didn't run a forty at the combine or at a pro day. The 4.74, I believe, was a high school time that a couple sites penciled in.