6 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Montana hit Lewis Billups in the chest to lose vs the Bengals... Billips dropped it Asante style. 

Sometimes luck helps the legend a bit.  Joe Cool was awesome, but not perfect.

 

Brady was never suspended for cheating. In appeals court the judge asked for actual evidence against Brady and they said there was none.

The only way deflategate even exists is if you believe 

A - The ref confused 2 very different looking gauges (the numbers are fine with the gauge he actually used)

B - That same ref had perfect recall of 24 psi measurement that he did not write down.

This is the perfect summary of the lies and manipulation by the clowns pretending Deflategate was a thing.

https://czabe.com/the-post/the-56-shames-of-deflategate/   (there is a link to deep dive if you want)

 

The next appeals court said Goodell had the power to suspend anyway. He was suspended for witchcraft based on junk science and lies.

Spygate was about an in-season memo saying where you could film, not that you could not film.

The Rams walkthrough video was a rumor and the Boston newspaper printed a retraction of the baseless and unsubstantiated rumor and an apology.

ESPN retracted it on-air at like 3:50 in the morning (spineless scumbags)

 

Montana however was surrounded by cheating.

Bill Walsh scripting the first 15 plays then destroying his headset so the other coach had to turn his off too was a regular occurrence.  (Parcells as 1 witness)

Jerry Rice using stick em  (Rice admitted this during the deflategate BS)

O-lineman using silicone spray (Montana himself admitted this)

The owner went around salaries with lavish trips and gifts then he actually violated salary rules themeselves (he had to give up the team over a bribery situation in Louisiana)

https://yourteamcheats.com/SF#:~:text=SUMMARY%3A The San Francisco 49ers were quietly accused by other,run from 1981 to 1994.

 

Montana had 31 TDs to 24 picks in the rest of his playoff games. So he was 12-7 in them on merit.

Brady got to more SBs because he played better. He had 21 TDs to 6 picks in 10 SBs but he was still 67 TDs to 34 picks in the other 38 games so he went 28-10 in those.

 

We beat Brady in 2017. Its time to move on from the delusions.

 

That's a lot of suppositions to absolve Brady.

Want to talk about luck, Brady has to be one of the luckiest QBs to ever play 

If Adam vinitieri isn't his kicker he most likely has two more super bowl losses.

If Pete caroll and Russell Wilson just run the ball that's another loss, if shanahan and the falcons just run the ball Brady loses another.

And that not even mentioning the super bowl he should have never been in because of the stupid tuck rule.

I don't really want to get into all the cheating stuff, fact is  Brady is a known twice caught cheater.

Guess it goes back to the old saying, it's not cheating if you don't get caught 

Montana never got caught nor are half the things you mentioned him cheating.

 

15 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Elway was a really old 37. He had 218 NFL starts before 1997.

He was also more of the Fran Tarkenton scramble to find an open guy then a tuck and run guy.

He would run if he had to but it was pass first, scramble to pass 2nd, run 3rd.

I mean sure except at their age 37 years they both had almost the same amount of carries, just a little over 700.

And it's not like Steve young was a 1 read tuck the ball and run guy, he led the league in passing efficiency multiple times, he was as good a pocket passer as there's ever been And he was as good a scrambler as there's ever been.

Like I said he was a unique guy.

Some guys have been better runners a couple could be considered better passers but no QB I can think of has ever been such a great passer and a great runner as well.

And as said I think hurts has that potential 

He's already a great runner and last year he was a really good passer and if he keeps improving as a passer he could be one of those guys like Steve young who can beat you like hurts said himself in all 3 phases, with his legs his arm and his mind 

With his work ethic I like his odds.

9 minutes ago, Utebird said:

That's a lot of suppositions to absolve Brady.

Want to talk about luck, Brady has to be one of the luckiest QBs to ever play 

If Adam vinitieri isn't his kicker he most likely has two more super bowl losses.

If Pete caroll and Russell Wilson just run the ball that's another loss, if shanahan and the falcons just run the ball Brady loses another.

And that not even mentioning the super bowl he should have never been in because of the stupid tuck rule.

I don't really want to get into all the cheating stuff, fact is  Brady is a known twice caught cheater.

Guess it goes back to the old saying, it's not cheating if you don't get caught 

Montana never got caught nor are half the things you mentioned him cheating.

 

BB is the biggest fraud of a HC in sports history. Dude cheated worse than anything I’ve ever heard of with stealing calls.

Drives me insane every time I rewatch that Super Bowl because it’s beyond obvious they knew our defensive plays in the second half.

3 minutes ago, TEW said:

BB is the biggest fraud of a HC in sports history. Dude cheated worse than anything I’ve ever heard of with stealing calls.

Drives me insane every time I rewatch that Super Bowl because it’s beyond obvious they knew our defensive plays in the second half.

Yup

I'm sure @SkippyX has an excuse for that as well 

But yeah Bb is also a caught cheater 

Bill Walsh was never caught so...

So maybe part of Walsh being a better coach than BB is that Walsh was also better at not getting caught.😁

15 minutes ago, Utebird said:

That's a lot of suppositions to absolve Brady.

Want to talk about luck, Brady has to be one of the luckiest QBs to ever play 

If Adam vinitieri isn't his kicker he most likely has two more super bowl losses.

If Pete caroll and Russell Wilson just run the ball that's another loss, if shanahan and the falcons just run the ball Brady loses another.

And that not even mentioning the super bowl he should have never been in because of the stupid tuck rule.

I don't really want to get into all the cheating stuff, fact is  Brady is a known twice caught cheater.

Guess it goes back to the old saying, it's not cheating if you don't get caught 

Montana never got caught nor are half the things you mentioned him cheating.

 

Science defends Brady. Anyone who is serious about the numbers knows it was all a lie.

The NFL were proven to have lied constantly.

Look at this picture and tell me its from the good guys.

Its showing 2 gauges that look nothing alike.

One had a label and the other had it ripped off.

One had a very long almost 45 degree bent needle and the other a short and slightly bent needle.

In the picture they move the short one up on the ruler so the measurement starts at the gold. 

In the other picture they spun the needle so that the bend is invisible to the camera.

They also increased the size of the image on the left (short needle) by 17%

Liars.

 

Belief in Deflategate is pure conspiracy theory.

 

Here is the retraction on the walkthrough.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2008/05/14/apology/

On Feb. 2, 2008, the Boston Herald reported that a member of the New England Patriots’ video staff taped the St. Louis Rams’ walkthrough on the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. While the Boston Herald based its Feb. 2, 2008, report on sources that it believed to be credible, we now know that this report was false, and that no tape of the walkthrough ever existed.

Prior to the publication of its Feb. 2, 2008, article, the Boston Herald neither possessed nor viewed a tape of the Rams’ walkthrough before Super Bowl XXXVI, nor did we speak to anyone who had. We should not have published the allegation in the absence of firmer verification.

The Boston Herald regrets the damage done to the team by publication of the allegation, and sincerely apologizes to its readers and to the New England Patriots’ owners, players, employees and fans for our error.

Here is ESPN's retraction.  (I was wrong about 3:40 AM it was 12:20 AM)

 

The NFL decided to really nail the Patriots by keeping track of inflation numbers the next season.

What were those numbers?

The NFL buried them after they confirmed the Patriots were not cheating. 

🤡

7 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup

I'm sure @SkippyX has an excuse for that as well 

But yeah Bb is also a caught cheater 

Bill Walsh was never caught so...

So maybe part of Walsh being a better coach than BB is that Walsh was also better at not getting caught.😁

Joe Gibbs is the best NFL head coach I’ve ever witnessed.  He won 3 Super Bowls with 3 journeyman QBs.  Theismann was the best of them, and he was really only much good for a couple of seasons under Gibbs.

24 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Science defends Brady. Anyone who is serious about the numbers knows it was all a lie.

The NFL were proven to have lied constantly.

Look at this picture and tell me its from the good guys.

Its showing 2 gauges that look nothing alike.

One had a label and the other had it ripped off.

One had a very long almost 45 degree bent needle and the other a short and slightly bent needle.

In the picture they move the short one up on the ruler so the measurement starts at the gold. 

In the other picture they spun the needle so that the bend is invisible to the camera.

They also increased the size of the image on the right (short needle) by 17%

Liars.

 

Belief in Deflategate is pure conspiracy theory.

 

Here is the retraction on the walkthrough.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2008/05/14/apology/

On Feb. 2, 2008, the Boston Herald reported that a member of the New England Patriots’ video staff taped the St. Louis Rams’ walkthrough on the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. While the Boston Herald based its Feb. 2, 2008, report on sources that it believed to be credible, we now know that this report was false, and that no tape of the walkthrough ever existed.

Prior to the publication of its Feb. 2, 2008, article, the Boston Herald neither possessed nor viewed a tape of the Rams’ walkthrough before Super Bowl XXXVI, nor did we speak to anyone who had. We should not have published the allegation in the absence of firmer verification.

The Boston Herald regrets the damage done to the team by publication of the allegation, and sincerely apologizes to its readers and to the New England Patriots’ owners, players, employees and fans for our error.

Here is ESPN's retraction.  (I was wrong about 3:40 AM it was 12:20 AM)

 

If spy gate is a hoax then why did goodell burn the tapes?

Not to mention the super bowl with the rams was in 2001 not 2008 so I'm not sure what the article you posted is referencing.

If deflate gate is a hoax then why did Tom Brady destroy his phone when asked for it for evidence 

Hey maybe he had kiddy porn on it but usually when people have nothing to hide dint destroy evidence 

Like I said he's a known caught busted cheater as is BB.

 If he didn't cheat nor did BB why the heck would the league have any interest in suspending their golden boy cash cow tom Brady?

They would do everything in their power to maintain his image and keep him on the field.

Yet they suspended him for cheating.

Montana was never suspended for cheating nor was Walsh, whether you think they were cheating or were or not.

And whether or not you believe Tom cheated or not doesn't dismiss the fact that indeed he was factually suspended for cheating, whether he actually did or not the league thought he did enough to punish him.

 

 

9 hours ago, SkippyX said:

The NFL decided to really nail the Patriots by keeping track of inflation numbers the next season.

What were those numbers?

The NFL buried them after they confirmed the Patriots were not cheating. 

🤡

Why would a team that is being accused of cheating by deflating balls go and deflate their balls the following season?

Makes zero sense.

It would be more logical to suggest the numbers showed the pays were still deflating balls and the NFL buried the numbers to protect the shield and their gold standard franchise and golden QB.

 

5 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Joe Gibbs is the best NFL head coach I’ve ever witnessed.  He won 3 Super Bowls with 3 journeyman QBs.  Theismann was the best of them, and he was really only much good for a couple of seasons under Gibbs.

I could get behind that.

I mean he had some stacked teams but you're right it would be the equivalent of winning 3 super bowls with 3 different incarnations of Nick foles😊

 

1 hour ago, Utebird said:

I could get behind that.

I mean he had some stacked teams but you're right it would be the equivalent of winning 3 super bowls with 3 different incarnations of Nick foles😊

 

Make your point, sure but don't blaspheme. 😉

1 hour ago, Utebird said:

I could get behind that.

I mean he had some stacked teams but you're right it would be the equivalent of winning 3 super bowls with 3 different incarnations of Nick foles😊

 

Gibbs also coached in an absolutely loaded era, in what was probably the most loaded division in the history of the sport. Those Cunningham teams with Reggie, Jerome, Clyde, Seth, and Allen were one of the two bad teams.

I think Andy Reid is up there too. What he does with backup QBs is pretty special. Obviously the eagles were a force for over a decade under his watch and then he goes to KC and looks like he has a dynasty on his hands.

And he is doing it all during the free agency era, so he can’t even keep his core players together unlike Gibbs.

This is another reason BB is totally over rated. Aside from the cheating, he’s never won anything without TB. He was a loser in Cleveland before and he’s a loser now that Brady is gone.

4 minutes ago, Utebird said:

I don't think you have followed the discussion correctly.

I said Dean wasn't an athletic freak, I said he was undersized and slow.

Another person says not athletic this is news to me.

Another poster posted his slow 40 time from high school which at the time I didn't even know existed.

In response the previous poster countered with Dean's vert 40+ and short shuttle to show dean had positional above average athletic ability which I agreed with.

If one doesn't want to use the 40 time to gauge his athleticism than one has to also throw out the vert and short shuttle also from high school in supporting his athleticism 

Or we could use those numbers since they are the only available to us as a baseline, I stead of guessing to try and make our arguments.

At this point I asserted that while I conceded that Dean's vert and short shuttle would support positional athleticism his lack of height which is recently recorded and below ave. 40 time which we were using  in conjunction with his other recorded times from high school would support his limitations in coverage 

In college he was targeted 73 times in the passing game and only caused 4 incompletions, that's a concern and I e invoiced that could be a problem for him in the pros where the guys he will face in the NFL are bigger and faster than some of the scrubs he faced in college that he couldn't cover, not to mention the NFL rules greatly favor offensive passing.

After I made that point I either didn't see a response or no one was Interested in talking about that anymore,which is fine.

If you would like to comment on the last point feel free, if you'd rather rant about freakbeasts my knowledge of them is on par with my knowledge of journalistic economic behavior, which is very little and pathetic, ask @ManuManu

 

You and others had a discussion about Dean.

Nobody on either side of the discussion realized that people were discussing high school numbers.

Really weak on both sides.   We don't have the data,  we don't know how fast Dean is. 

If people want to fight about Dean using very old numbers, they're just wrong.  The people who have an opinion in favor of Dean probably should have pointed out that there were old numbers.  The hero finally stepped up after maybe 10 back and forths without mentioning that irrelevant numbers were being applied.

4.74 40 in high school was good enough to win the High School Butkus award.   He's faster now.  How much faster,  we don't know.

Do we really think that the Georgia defense isn't going to be able to run fast?   Smith and Ringo were both in the 4.3s.   Davis was in the 4.7s and he was 341 when he did that.  We don't know about Carter.  Again,  didn't do the things at combine or pro day.  

Oh, and Jalen Carter is not fast or quick.   Because in high school,  his numbers were 5.15 40 at 300 with a 4.84 shuttle.  

In reality, those are old numbers from high school and are meaningless.  What is meaningful is that he knows how to play fullback, because he did some of that in high school

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/combine/_/id/219739/jalen-carter

oh and here's Nakobe Dean,  from the same spot, espn recruiting, with the 4.74 40 and the 41.2 vert.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/combine/_/id/223998/nakobe-dean

Now, we all know this.  Now,  we will all stop talking about Dean's high school 40 as if it's relevant to today.   Dean was a running back in high school.  Davis was a basketball player.  Nolan Smith was a running back.  Kelee Ringo was a running back. Carter was a fullback/te.

I don't think that if you accept one set of numbers you have to accept others.

We could argue about whether it is accepted that a player gets bigger and faster and all that during college.    Sometimes a player gets severely injured in college and is not better after college than before.  However, in most cases, a player does get better in college.

We know that Dean's 41.2 is the least he can do.
We know that Dean's 4.74 is the least he can do.

And we can then guess whether his numbers got better or worse in the last 5 years or whatever.

the baseline of 41 on the vert is very high.  Many of the Eagles have big verts like that,  Nolan Smith, VanSumeren.  Dean was able to do that in high school.  Presumably even better now.  But that's just a guess based on what usually happens.  

With the 4.74 number, you could say that the 4.74 number doesn't support the "great athlete" hypothesis.  That's true, and the quick rebuttal is that 4.74 is the minimum and generally players that weren't hurt really bad get faster in college.  It is true that "Dean is fast" is unproven. 

 

 

8 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Brady was never suspended for cheating. In appeals court the judge asked for actual evidence against Brady and they said there was none.

The only way deflategate even exists is if you believe 

A - The ref confused 2 very different looking gauges (the numbers are fine with the gauge he actually used)

B - That same ref had perfect recall of 24 psi measurement that he did not write down.

This is the perfect summary of the lies and manipulation by the clowns pretending Deflategate was a thing.

https://czabe.com/the-post/the-56-shames-of-deflategate/   (there is a link to deep dive if you want)

 

The next appeals court said Goodell had the power to suspend anyway. He was suspended for witchcraft based on junk science and lies.

Spygate was about an in-season memo saying where you could film, not that you could not film.

The Rams walkthrough video was a rumor and the Boston newspaper printed a retraction of the baseless and unsubstantiated rumor and an apology.

ESPN retracted it on-air at like 3:50 in the morning (spineless scumbags)

This is legitimately insane. The text messages and video of the equipment manager going into the bathroom with the balls clearly confirm Brady's guilt. How is this still even a debate?

10 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

 

He's 230 with 15 lb weights in each of his shoes.

OK, so I exaggerated. 229.

Nakobe Dean Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

49 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

Do we really think that the Georgia defense isn't going to be able to run fast?   Smith and Ringo were both in the 4.3s.   Davis was in the 4.7s and he was 341 when he did that.  We don't know about Carter.  Again,  didn't do the things at combine or pro day.  

Oh, and Jalen Carter is not fast or quick.   Because in high school,  his numbers were 5.15 40 at 300 with a 4.84 shuttle.  

What? Just watch some Georgia tape.

The new Big 10 is going to be hard for some teams.  Will really take some balls with that schedule. A third dong pun.

 

Despite not having a recent forty time for Dean, virtually every scouting report (for the NFL draft) claimed he had true sideline to sideline range. There was no report of him having below average speed or range at the college level. 

8 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

Joe Gibbs is the best NFL head coach I’ve ever witnessed.  He won 3 Super Bowls with 3 journeyman QBs.  Theismann was the best of them, and he was really only much good for a couple of seasons under Gibbs.

Gibbs is the closest thing we've ever seen to a HC who won a Super Bowl with 2 different teams.  Each one of those Super Bowl teams had a different identity.  First one was all about running the ball with Riggins just running over people behind the Hogs.  (The MVP of the league was their freaking kicker!!!)   Second one was a redemption story.  Jay Schroeder was the starting QB, and Doug Williams the backup.  Williams lost both regular season games he started, but like our very own Nick Foles, he comes in for the playoff run and finishes as the Super Bowl MVP.  And the final one still confuses me to this day with Mark Rypien at the helm.  They put up a ridiculous number of points, top scoring team in the league by a wide margin.  But I still don't think that team was better than the 1991 Eagles... if only they had a QB for that season!  But the Gibbs teams did have two constants during that time... Great OL play... and a stout defense.   It was during that time that I came to realize that until the Eagles fixed the OL woes, they'd never win anything.   And now, I realize that if you have the OL in place, you can win at a very high level for a very long time.  

 

OL uber alles! 

6 hours ago, TEW said:

Gibbs also coached in an absolutely loaded era, in what was probably the most loaded division in the history of the sport. Those Cunningham teams with Reggie, Jerome, Clyde, Seth, and Allen were one of the two bad teams.

I think Andy Reid is up there too. What he does with backup QBs is pretty special. Obviously the eagles were a force for over a decade under his watch and then he goes to KC and looks like he has a dynasty on his hands.

And he is doing it all during the free agency era, so he can’t even keep his core players together unlike Gibbs.

This is another reason BB is totally over rated. Aside from the cheating, he’s never won anything without TB. He was a loser in Cleveland before and he’s a loser now that Brady is gone.

You could have just left it at:  "he's a loser".   The guy should have been taken through the ringer more than what happened with Gregg Williams with the Saints.  His cheating was on a far grander scale and a much higher profile, calling into question the pinnacle of the sport.

15 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

He looks like he ate Nate Herbig

Thought that too.  Wondered what he'd been doing, but kind of understandable with a court case hanging over him

12 hours ago, Utebird said:

Criminal Rape cases are extremely difficult to get convictions, especially so without Any physical evidence, ( rape kit, etc...) The conviction rate for rape hovers around 5%.

I'm not saying Sills raped or sexually assaulted anyone but a not guilty ruling in a criminal court doesn't automatically mean he didn't commit rape or sexual assault, just means the court/ jury didn't have enough evidence to prove without reasonable doubt that one was committed 

The ruling judge on the case reportedly said he believed the witness ( victims female friend)and said there wasn't enough evidence to convict so the jury did their duty 

I'd like to believe Sills but in this case I tend to believe the victim and the witness and personally It would be tough for me to keep Sills on my team.

If he doesn't make the roster then it'll all be moot anyway so ...🤷‍♂️

My perspective nowadays is don't know - especially without looking at the case in detail. I don't presume he is guilty but there wasn't enough evidence to convict - inappropriate to leave that on someone..

Could it be there was a lack of sound judgement and general respect between one or both parties when the alleged offence happened. Maybe, but don't know.  Regardless, he has a right to a career after being in a legal process, but to be contrarily fair, the employer has a right to review their code of conduct and punish him if they think he breaches that.  Not my business if they do that though but something more employers would look at, over at least in the UK.

11 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Huh. 

The wrap on him/Watkins was varying amount of talent, but lack of work ethic/poor attitude could limit their careers  However, if the light comes on, potential to be a decent NFL player

40 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

This is legitimately insane. The text messages and video of the equipment manager going into the bathroom with the balls clearly confirm Brady's guilt. How is this still even a debate?

Careful - that dude is softer than Charmin and will report you in a second and try to get you suspended.  

9 hours ago, SkippyX said:

Montana hit Lewis Billups in the chest to lose vs the Bengals... Billips dropped it Asante style.  (Asante killed Brady's 18-0)

Sometimes luck helps the legend a bit.  Joe Cool was awesome, but not perfect. (Brady benefitted from the Baltimore meltdown in 2011 (drop then shank))

 

Brady was never suspended for cheating. In appeals court the judge asked for actual evidence against Brady and they said there was none.

The only way deflategate even exists is if you believe 

A - The ref confused 2 very different looking gauges (the numbers are fine with the gauge he actually used)

B - That same ref had perfect recall of 24 psi measurement that he did not write down.

This is the perfect summary of the lies and manipulation by the clowns pretending Deflategate was a thing.

https://czabe.com/the-post/the-56-shames-of-deflategate/   (there is a link to deep dive if you want)

 

The next appeals court said Goodell had the power to suspend anyway. He was suspended for witchcraft based on junk science and lies.

Spygate was about an in-season memo saying where you could film, not that you could not film.

The Rams walkthrough video was a rumor and the Boston newspaper printed a retraction of the baseless and unsubstantiated rumor and an apology.

ESPN retracted it on-air at like 3:50 in the morning (spineless scumbags)

 

Montana however was surrounded by cheating.

Bill Walsh scripting the first 15 plays then destroying his headset so the other coach had to turn his off too was a regular occurrence.  (Parcells as 1 witness)

Jerry Rice using stick em  (Rice admitted this during the deflategate BS)

O-lineman using silicone spray (Montana himself admitted this)

The owner went around salaries with lavish trips and gifts then he actually violated salary rules themeselves (he had to give up the team over a bribery situation in Louisiana)

https://yourteamcheats.com/SF#:~:text=SUMMARY%3A The San Francisco 49ers were quietly accused by other,run from 1981 to 1994.

 

Montana had 31 TDs to 24 picks in the rest of his playoff games. So he was 12-7 in them on merit.

Brady got to more SBs because he played better. He had 21 TDs to 6 picks in 10 SBs but he was still 67 TDs to 34 picks in the other 38 games so he went 28-10 in those.

 

We beat Brady in 2017. Its time to move on from the delusions.

 

Definitely didn't have "Eagles fan vehemently defending cheater Pats and Brady" on my TATE bingo card for today.  

1 hour ago, Random Reglar said:

 

You and others had a discussion about Dean.

Nobody on either side of the discussion realized that people were discussing high school numbers.

Really weak on both sides.   We don't have the data,  we don't know how fast Dean is. 

If people want to fight about Dean using very old numbers, they're just wrong.  The people who have an opinion in favor of Dean probably should have pointed out that there were old numbers.  The hero finally stepped up after maybe 10 back and forths without mentioning that irrelevant numbers were being applied.

4.74 40 in high school was good enough to win the High School Butkus award.   He's faster now.  How much faster,  we don't know.

Do we really think that the Georgia defense isn't going to be able to run fast?   Smith and Ringo were both in the 4.3s.   Davis was in the 4.7s and he was 341 when he did that.  We don't know about Carter.  Again,  didn't do the things at combine or pro day.  

Oh, and Jalen Carter is not fast or quick.   Because in high school,  his numbers were 5.15 40 at 300 with a 4.84 shuttle.  

In reality, those are old numbers from high school and are meaningless.  What is meaningful is that he knows how to play fullback, because he did some of that in high school

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/combine/_/id/219739/jalen-carter

oh and here's Nakobe Dean,  from the same spot, espn recruiting, with the 4.74 40 and the 41.2 vert.

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/player/combine/_/id/223998/nakobe-dean

Now, we all know this.  Now,  we will all stop talking about Dean's high school 40 as if it's relevant to today.   Dean was a running back in high school.  Davis was a basketball player.  Nolan Smith was a running back.  Kelee Ringo was a running back. Carter was a fullback/te.

I don't think that if you accept one set of numbers you have to accept others.

We could argue about whether it is accepted that a player gets bigger and faster and all that during college.    Sometimes a player gets severely injured in college and is not better after college than before.  However, in most cases, a player does get better in college.

We know that Dean's 41.2 is the least he can do.
We know that Dean's 4.74 is the least he can do.

And we can then guess whether his numbers got better or worse in the last 5 years or whatever.

the baseline of 41 on the vert is very high.  Many of the Eagles have big verts like that,  Nolan Smith, VanSumeren.  Dean was able to do that in high school.  Presumably even better now.  But that's just a guess based on what usually happens.  

With the 4.74 number, you could say that the 4.74 number doesn't support the "great athlete" hypothesis.  That's true, and the quick rebuttal is that 4.74 is the minimum and generally players that weren't hurt really bad get faster in college.  It is true that "Dean is fast" is unproven. 

 

 

Stopped reading after you stated nobody realized we were posting high school numbers.

All those involved mentioned multiple times they were high school numbers.

Maybe before jumping in the middle of a discussion actually know what the eff is going on...😒

6 hours ago, TEW said:

Gibbs also coached in an absolutely loaded era, in what was probably the most loaded division in the history of the sport. Those Cunningham teams with Reggie, Jerome, Clyde, Seth, and Allen were one of the two bad teams.

I think Andy Reid is up there too. What he does with backup QBs is pretty special. Obviously the eagles were a force for over a decade under his watch and then he goes to KC and looks like he has a dynasty on his hands.

And he is doing it all during the free agency era, so he can’t even keep his core players together unlike Gibbs.

This is another reason BB is totally over rated. Aside from the cheating, he’s never won anything without TB. He was a loser in Cleveland before and he’s a loser now that Brady is gone.

Yup, the NFC east back then was pretty stacked.

The Giants won the super bowl in 90 then skins in 91 then cowboys in 92 93 and 95.

I mean the eagles in 91 finished 10-6 without Randall and missed the playoffs in 89 I believe they finished 11-5 and were Second in their division.