15 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

This implies that great QB play is important. It also goes to say that very good QB play is also important.

Arians was 38-21-1 with Carson Palmer. He was 11-9 without him in Arizona. He was 7-9 in Tampa with crab claws lick-a-dub.

Belichick is 219-64 with Brady (this is better than Lombardi with Starr, Landry with Staubach, pretty much anyone except maybe Madden with Stabler and Reid with Mahomes)

• Belichick is 2-0 with Jimmy G
• Belichick is 1-1 wit Jacoby Brissette
• Belichick is 10-5 with Matt Cassel
• Belichick is 11-18 with Kosar (who was great early but 3-10 the year before he met BB)
• Belichick is 4-4 with Mike Tomczak
• Belichick is 2-3 with Todd Philcox
• Belichick is 16-15 with Vinny Testaverde
• Belichick is 1-3 with Eric Zeir
• Belichick is 7-9 with washed fashionista Cam Newton
• Belichick is 16-15 with Mac Jones
• Belichick is 2-0 with Bailey Zappe.
• Belichick is 0-1 with Brian Hoyer.

Where exactly did Belichick underperform as a HC?  With 90-123-1 Vincenzo the year the Browns middle fingered Cleveland with a moving announcement?

 

Andy Reid is 
64-16 with Patrick Mahomes
50-26 with Alex Smith
92-49-1 with McNabb
5-1 with Jeff Garcia
18-16 with Vick 2.0

2-5 with Nick Foles 
1-1 with Chase Daniel
2-5 with Mike McMahon
1-1 with Matt Moore
0-1 with Chad Henne
4-3 with AJ Feeley
2-1 with RTK Detmer
2-7 with Doug Pederson
1-2 with Vince Young
3-4 with Kevin Kolb

Reid also struggles without pro bowl level QB play, what an astounding discovery. Who could have guessed?

 

Anytime you start out trying to support that BB with Brady is really not that important because Cleveland moved, Cam was washed, and Mac Jones is a fraud you wind up face planting.

 

BB is the greatest defensive mind in NFL history. He does not have 6 rings like NE or 7 like Brady. He has 8.

He got 2 in New York while he was using Joe Montana like toilet paper.

He has been in 12 of the last 37 Super Bowls.

No franchise has been to 12 Super Bowls.

The only one at 11 is NE because he took them 10 times.

The next best franchise is at 8 (lots tied at 8  )

 

In fairness to Belichick, how many of those Superbowls were won by defense.  The early years before Brady became Brady the defense was the driving force of those teams.

In the later years the defense played a big part in 2 of their SBs against Seattle (Butler interception) and holding the Rams to 3 points.

Belichick is definitely not an overrated HC but he needs good QB play just like any great coach.

@Iggles_Phan Rojas!!

Rojas

3 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Yup they both did 

And, all pro team isnt voted by conference.

In 2008 the two 1st team safeties were troy and Ed.

Both in the same conference, heck both in the same division.

Good players both of them, I don't think Troy is in the same tier as Dawkins and reed.

 

Apologies, I meant pro bowl spot in regards to Dawk.  But you have a really good point they did take both in 2008. 

@e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!  No way can they put him back to AAA.

6 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

In fairness to Belichick, how many of those Superbowls were won by defense.  The early years before Brady became Brady the defense was the driving force of those teams.

In the later years the defense played a big part in 2 of their SBs against Seattle (Butler interception) and holding the Rams to 3 points.

Belichick is definitely not an overrated HC but he needs good QB play just like any great coach.

If he is being called the ‘best ever’, then yeah…he might be.  I think, with all things considered, it is enough to call him ‘one of the best.’

Bill Parcels Splits with BB running his defense:

No BB as DC or Assistant Head Coach (being nice to 95 DC Al Groh)  143 games without:  67-76-1 1-3 in the playoffs

BB as DC or Assistant Head Coach (acting DC)                                    159 games with:      105-54   10-5 in the playoffs 2 rings and a 3rd SB.

 

This is clearly defined as BB's greatness.  The Brady vs BB stuff is just goofy. People who go to 3 SBs, win 2 and eat Joe Montana as a snack don't need Brady for validation.

 

Pretending BB does not deserve full credit is flat earth level idiocy.

Its like saying Phil Jackson was a terrible coach but Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe got him 11 rings. 🤡

8 minutes ago, McMVP said:

If he is being called the ‘best ever’, then yeah…he might be.  I think, with all things considered, it is enough to call him ‘one of the best.’

He and Don Shula have very similar career coaching records.  I don’t know that Shula ever cheated, and I know Belichick did cheat several times.  
 

Always put the guy who did it the right way over the cheater.

jeez

25 minutes ago, McMVP said:

If he is being called the ‘best ever’, then yeah…he might be.  I think, with all things considered, it is enough to call him ‘one of the best.’

Lets hear your case for someone else. Its easy to say its not BB. Its impossible to say its someone else and back it up.

Madden and his 1 ring?

Papa Bear and his 6 rings in 40 years in a 10-12 team league?

Don Shula? LOL 6-6 in the playoffs with Marino

Lombardi?   77-26-4 with Starr.  19-11-2 without with nothing won as a HC without Starr.

Landry and his 2-3 in SBs as a HC? He never won without Staubach.

Reid?   BB owns him in the playoffs 3-0 and Reid was terrible in 2 of the 3 matchups with time management.

 

Oh, I know. Its Sean McVay!   👀

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

He and Don Shula have very similar career coaching records.  I don’t know that Shula ever cheated, and I know Belichick did cheat several times.  
 

Always put the guy who did it the right way over the cheater.

The Miami Dolphins were punished for cheating with Don Shula before he ever coached for them.

Its not hidden.

Shula is also 2-4 in Super Bowls but why not pretend he had integrity and settle for a far inferior coach. 

Joe Gibbs.

20 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

jeez

Is that angel hernandez? It is absolutely wild that they let umpires do this year in and year out. Pitchers are throwing gas now, you cannot expect these 60 year old dudes to be able to keep up. Keep em there for show but there needs to be technology introduced here

Phillies getting all the calls in this one.

Out by a hairline 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Joe Gibbs.

Gibbs is a damn good coach. He even dominated NASCAR but going to NASCAR after 12 years, coming back for 4 and going 30-35 in a 4 year return does not equal GoaT

He was also a very good OC in Coryell SD but he did not win there.

3 SBs and his first 12 years record puts him up with almost anyone. No idea how you decide if he is 2 or 8 but he's likely top 10 and I'd say probably top 5.

He's one of the great leaders of the last 50 years.

 

Had he stayed in 1993 and won 2 or 3 more SBs then it would be a close call.

3 different QBs is awesome

 

1 minute ago, SkippyX said:

Gibbs is a damn good coach. He even dominated NASCAR but going to NASCAR after 12 years, coming back for 4 and going 30-35 in a 4 year return does not equal GoaT

He was also a very good OC in Coryell SD but he did not win there.

3 SBs and his first 12 years record puts him up with almost anyone. No idea how you decide if he is 2 or 8 but he's likely top 10 and I'd say probably top 5.

He's one of the great leaders of the last 50 years.

 

Had he stayed in 1993 and won 2 or 3 more SBs then it would be a close call.

3 different QBs is awesome

 

I ignore the second stint.  That wasn't the same coach.

18 minutes ago, devpool said:

Is that angel hernandez? It is absolutely wild that they let umpires do this year in and year out. Pitchers are throwing gas now, you cannot expect these 60 year old dudes to be able to keep up. Keep em there for show but there needs to be technology introduced here

I'd go to first and sit on the bag until the ump left the building. Protest the game in real time.

The NFL Salary Cap started in 1994. Not a coincidence that Washington was never really a factor after that. Applies to Dallas Cowboys too. 

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

I ignore the second stint.  That wasn't the same coach.

Dan Snyder did not help.

33 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Lets hear your case for someone else. Its easy to say its not BB. Its impossible to say its someone else and back it up.

Madden and his 1 ring?

Papa Bear and his 6 rings in 40 years in a 10-12 team league?

Don Shula? LOL 6-6 in the playoffs with Marino

Lombardi?   77-26-4 with Starr.  19-11-2 without with nothing won as a HC without Starr.

Landry and his 2-3 in SBs as a HC? He never won without Staubach.

Reid?   BB owns him in the playoffs 3-0 and Reid was terrible in 2 of the 3 matchups with time management.

 

Oh, I know. Its Sean McVay!   👀

 

 

 

You care much more about the importance of having a clearly defined ‘best ever’ than I do.  And that’s fine.  

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I ignore the second stint.  That wasn't the same coach.

And a different owner….

3 minutes ago, McMVP said:

You care much more about the importance of having a clearly defined ‘best ever’ than I do.  And that’s fine.  

So, no. Gotcha.