2 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

2000-2008 he averaged 81 catches for 1200 yards and 12 TDs. It was great, but it wasn’t Marvin Harrison great.

 

2000-2008 Terrell Owens in 127 games: 729 receptions, 10,815 yards, 14.8 YPR and 109 TDs while catching passes from Jeff Garcia, Tim Rattay, Donovan McNabb, end of career Drew Bledsoe and Tony Romo.  

 

2000-2008 Marvin Harrison in 130 games: 791 receptions, 10,439 yards, 13.2 YPR and 95 TDs while playing in a dome with Peyton Manning throwing to him for all of that time.

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

2000-2008 Terrell Owens in 127 games: 729 receptions, 10,815 yards, 14.8 YPR and 109 TDs while catching passes from Jeff Garcia, Tim Rattay, Donovan McNabb, end of career Drew Bledsoe and Tony Romo.  

 

2000-2008 Marvin Harrison in 130 games: 791 receptions, 10,439 yards, 13.2 YPR and 95 TDs while playing in a dome with Peyton Manning throwing to him for all of that time.

And if we do Jerry Rice 2000-2008 TO looks even better. What kind of a stupid comparison is that? Now let’s do TO 2010-2018 and Marvin Harrison 1990-1998; compare those for no particular reason whatsoever

4 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

And by your logic you’d have Dez Bryant greater than Michael Irvin, which makes no sense but that’s what happens when you remove all context to fawn over an accumulation stat.

 

Two players from two different eras.  What context do you need?  You think 1,500 yard receiving yard seasons, leading the league in receptions and yards in seasons is more valuable than scoring TDs.  How by your logic and your criteria that you laid down do you not have Andre Johnson ranked higher than TO?  Two players from the exact same era.  Andre Johnson led the league in receptions twice and led the league in yards twice.  He got over 1,500 receiving yards 3 times in his career.

So shouldn't Andre Johnson be considered to you the better WR based on your criteria that you established?  

8 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

And if we do Jerry Rice 2000-2008 TO looks even better. What kind of a stupid comparison is that? Now let’s do TO 2010-2018 and Marvin Harrison 1990-1998; compare those for no particular reason whatsoever

 

Huh?  Marvin Harrison didn't enter the league until 1996, same year as TO.  But okay.

 

Marvin Harrison from 1990-1998 in the NFL:  44 games, 196 receptions, 2,478 yards, 12.6 YPR and 21 TDs.  

4 hours ago, vaeagle2 said:

this pains me to say but i'd put joe gibbs ahead of reid , didn't he win 3 superbowls with 3 different QB's 

Yeah well he coached a racist team so F him 

T.O. > Harrison and it's really not close. 

5 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Two players from two different eras.  What context do you need?  You think 1,500 yard receiving yard seasons, leading the league in receptions and yards in seasons is more valuable than scoring TDs.  How by your logic and your criteria that you laid down do you not have Andre Johnson ranked higher than TO?  Two players from the exact same era.  Andre Johnson led the league in receptions twice and led the league in yards twice.  He got over 1,500 receiving yards 3 times in his career.

So shouldn't Andre Johnson be considered to you the better WR based on your criteria that you established?  

100% yards are more valuable than TDs for a receiver. TDs are great to cap a drive, but there are many different kinds of receivers and a lot of them are not chosen by their offenses as goal line threats. A big, lumbering WR who gets 50/50 balls in The redzone doesn’t automatically make him better than a team’s #1 WR who got them there.

Antonio Gates is the poster boy for this. He had more career TDs than Tony Gonzalez because they almost exclusively used him for that. Does that make him better than Gonzalez? On par? Not close. A receiver’s primary responsibility is moving the chains. TDs and total receptions are secondary stats to total receiving yards

Just now, Captain F said:

T.O. > Harrison and it's really not close. 

Well, Marvin Harrison never caused dysfunction in the locker room. Harrison was more valuable. 

Just now, RLC said:

Well, Marvin Harrison never caused dysfunction in the locker room. Harrison was more mentally stable. 

Fyp

10 hours ago, mikemack8 said:

I say this with as much kindness as I can muster, as I hope you won't report me.  I know how thin-skinned you are.  Would you please shut up about your love for the cheating Patriots?  

Thanks.  

I have reported maybe 3 people here since I have been back and they were all later banned because lots of others also reported them because they could not stop harassing and violating rules. You are not winning any points by parroting Captain Fart Jokes. Captain Fart Jokes was himself removed from all but RnR for a while and it had nothing to do with me.  I use ignore instead 99% of the time and you disagreeing with me about what a Newspaper and a TV station retracting a story means is never even going to rise to the level of using ignore on you. 

 

BB's gameplan was that McNabb will crumble and he played a 5-man front to stop Westbrook. McNabb sucked. LJ fumbled. That's why they lost in 2004.

Its butter soft to go through life thinking delusional non-existent cameramen were really to blame. Its world class soft to have to resort to lame mafia style tactics of hinting that people are rats for reporting people who would not stop harassing after being asked to stop.

2 hours ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Jamar Chase just gave his WR Mt RusHmore and it was the dumbest crap I’ve ever heard, so I was trying to come up with mine

Rice, Harrison Moss, Hutson was my initial thought

But Hutson played during segregation so was he really comparably dominant if all the corners were white? Megatron then I think is my fourth 

Wes Welker, Julian Edelman, Deion Branch, Troy Brown. 

8 minutes ago, Captain F said:

Fyp

 

Well he shot and killed a guy

 

11 minutes ago, Captain F said:

Fyp

I wouldn’t call Marvin Harrison mentally stable. He just wasn’t a NFL workplace distraction. 

10 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

100% yards are more valuable than TDs for a receiver. TDs are great to cap a drive, but there are many different kinds of receivers and a lot of them are not chosen by their offenses as goal line threats. A big, lumbering WR who gets 50/50 balls in The redzone doesn’t automatically make him better than a team’s #1 WR who got them there.

Antonio Gates is the poster boy for this. He had more career TDs than Tony Gonzalez because they almost exclusively used him for that. Does that make him better than Gonzalez? On par? Not close. A receiver’s primary responsibility is moving the chains. TDs and total receptions are secondary stats to total receiving yards

 

This isn't fantasy football.  Yards are absolutely not more valuable than touchdowns.  The goal on offense is to score a TD.  TO got yards, 3rd most of Amy WR in history but he also did the most important thing for a skill player and that was consistently score many touchdowns.  

So you agree then, you view Andre Johnson as better than TO based on your criteria?

19 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

I have reported maybe 3 people here since I have been back and they were all later banned because lots of others also reported them because they could not stop harassing and violating rules. You are not winning any points by parroting Captain Fart Jokes. Captain Fart Jokes was himself removed from all but RnR for a while and it had nothing to do with me.  I use ignore instead 99% of the time and you disagreeing with me about what a Newspaper and a TV station retracting a story means is never even going to rise to the level of using ignore on you. 

 

BB's gameplan was that McNabb will crumble and he played a 5-man front to stop Westbrook. McNabb sucked. LJ fumbled. That's why they lost in 2004.

Its butter soft to go through life thinking delusional non-existent cameramen were really to blame. Its world class soft to have to resort to lame mafia style tactics of hinting that people are rats for reporting people who would not stop harassing after being asked to stop.

Have fun rooting for the Pats week 1 

Just now, mikemack8 said:

Have fun rooting for the Pats week 1 

Have fun with straw men and weak arguments.

I root for the Eagles. I just don't pretend it was not McNabb throwing a pick, do-over, and another pick that lost the SB.

1 hour ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Owens is a tough one for me. He was an alltime great player, but never really had that period where he was quite as dominant as the other players named. I put him into a grouping with Larry Fitzgerald and Isaac Bruce in that respect. They all benefited a lot from what I call "baseball stats”. 
 

In baseball, if you hit 500 home runs over the course of your career, you’re going to be known as an alltime power hitter, and almost assuredly going into the hall of fame. It doesn’t matter if you never hit 30 HRs in a season. 20 years of 25 hrs, you hit 500 total, and will be remembered with guys like Eddie Murray, Albert Bell, Manny Ramirez… even though you weren’t close to as good a slugger. 3000 hits, same thing. Craig Biggio drags out his career so he can crawl across the 3000 hit mark, and suddenly he goes from decent player to HoF contact hitter.

Terrell Owens never led the league in receiving. Not once. Terrell Owens never led the league in catches. Once thing that really separates the greatest WRs are the 1500 yard seasons. Those are special. Terrell Owens is unfamiliar with what a 1500 yard season feels like. In fact, he only ever had 2 1400 yard seasons. That’s it, seriously. He had a ton of 1100 and 1200 yard seasons that added up. Was that a Mt Rushmore alltime season AJ Brown had? It was fantastic, but not really of that echelon, no. But it was more yards than TO has ever had. TO was known as a guy who’d go through the middle and gobble up catches like mad, but the dude had one career 100 catch season.
 

Now imagine if he got injured and retired at 33…  ended up like 12th on the alltime receiving list. Would we think of him as a Mt Rushmore WR? He wouldn’t be close. The best thing TO has going for him is baseball stats. IMO they don’t translate as well to football. Marvin Harrison from 1999-2006 averaged 100+ catches, 1400+ yards, and 13 TDs. 8 consecutive years. That’s unbelievable. But TO has more hype because he played until he was old as dirt so his stat totals were ballooned. Does that make him better? Marvin Harrison played his entire college career before joining the NFL at 24. Does that make him a worse receiver because it hurts his baseball stats?

This is a well-reasoned, well-explained opinion.  It is a compelling argument.  Not the only argument, but definitely a compelling one.  One of Harrison’s "faults” was that he did his job very quietly.  He didn’t crave the limelight like TO did, and as a result there are a lot of people, who when youention him reply, "Who?”  TO made sure that would never happen when his name was mentioned … for better and for worse.

Yards aren't more or less valuable than TD's; they are just different.

You need to chew up yards to GET to the goal line, so they matter.  Yards represent offensive volume and general productivity.

TD's represent 2 things...a specific skill set to be a threat in that area (or an incredible big play threat) and the happenstance of the offense.  That matters too.

In general, a WR (on paper in an otherwise blind comparison) that goes for 1,600 yards and 2 TDs is probably more intriguing to me than one that goes for 750 yards and 10 TDs.  

 

 

25 minutes ago, RLC said:

Well, Marvin Harrison never caused dysfunction in the locker room. Harrison was more valuable. 

TO was the Donald Trump of his era.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

In general, a WR (on paper in an otherwise blind comparison) that goes for 1,600 yards and 2 TDs is probably more intriguing to me than one that goes for 750 yards and 10 TDs.  

I agree 100%

Boston Scott also agrees.

16 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

This isn't fantasy football.  Yards are absolutely not more valuable than touchdowns.  The goal on offense is to score a TD.  TO got yards, 3rd most of Amy WR in history but he also did the most important thing for a skill player and that was consistently score many touchdowns.  

So you agree then, you view Andre Johnson as better than TO based on your criteria?

The goal to get a touchdown is that of an offense as a whole. It is not reflective of the receivers’ abilities if the team successfully runs the ball in the redzone. A WR is there to assist the offense in moving the ball down the field into a scoring drive whether or not you catch the actual TD. That’s a receiver’s job.

Minnesota’s offense just swing passes to Dalvin Cook over and over again in the redzone. Justin Jefferson was not voted the 2nd player in the NFL because he has 0 career double digit TD seasons. It’s because he moved the chains better than every other WR in the nfl. 
 

I don’t agree with whatever straw man argument you’re going on about with Andre Johnson, no

True or false: Mcnabb was the worst pure passer that TO spent extensive time with in his career.

3 minutes ago, mattwill said:

I agree 100%

Boston Scott also agrees.

Well, Boston Scott probably disagrees.

2 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

True or false: Mcnabb was the worst pure passer that TO spent extensive time with in his career.

Possibly, but he did play with Ryan Fitzpatrick.

9 hours ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Who cares about BB?  The Pats have a serious post-Brady hangover and I don't think that's ending anytime soon.  They might actually be the worst team in the AFC east this season, with or without Zeke.  

 

They put it all on Mac Jones and he's not the guy. Their D is still very good but its hard to win without a good QB.

BB is also GM or has lots of say so the QB pick is on him, just like Brady was on him. (keeping him as a 4th QB in 2000 if not being the guy to find the 6th round gem)

I can even find playoff games where BB screwed up ( the 4th down vs Indy and the 4th downs vs Denver instead of FGs in 2015 are 2 examples)

In that Denver game the NE center (Stork) was head bobbing before the silent count snap so Brady got killed and the coaches did not notice it or fix it. That's as bad as anything Reid ever did with clock management.