Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

He's a top 3 WR at worst.  

In your oft-criticized opinion

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

If Calvin Johnson had a career the length of some of these others, 14+ years, I think it would be easy to put him at #2.

Now this is a great question — who was the more naturally talented receiver?

I don’t even know who I’d pick.

4 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

In your oft-criticized opinion

 

In the opinion of many.  Your opinion is not much right now with the absurd takes you have given tonight on TO and WRs.  

TO was a jackass.

He was also a 5x first team all-pro WR so get over him being a jackass.

He finished 2nd in receiving yards and 3rd in receiving TDs (3 behind Moss for 2nd)

So if the question of who is TO better than at WR the answer is pretty much everyone besides Rice who was better and Moss who was similar.

 

He's another guy who people don't like but his record does not care if you like him.

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

In the opinion of many.  Your opinion is about as good as dirty right now with the absurd takes you have given tonight on TO and WRs.  

Again, in your oft-criticized opinion it is.

And many more also do not view TO as a top 3 WR

5 minutes ago, TEW said:

Now this is a great question — who was the more naturally talented receiver?

I don’t even know who I’d pick.

Megatron almost seemed like they went into a lab and built a perfect android of an NFL WR.  Size...speed... strength... hands.  Not sure who was a better built WR than him.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Megatron almost seemed like they went into a lab and built a perfect andriod of an NFL WR.  Size...speed... strength... hands.  Not sure who was a better built WR than him.

The other argument is that Moss was so good at his talent (albeit more limited) that he could be in the conversation too. So then you have a question of all around balanced talent vs one or two unstoppable traits

6 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Again, in your oft-criticized opinion it is.

And many more also do not view TO as a top 3 WR

 

Foolish people then.  Imagine not valuing the ability to score TDs at a high rate when its TDs that score the most points the game has to offer and yards don't score any points unless you finish the drive. 

 

Let's expose this further.  Who had the better season at WR?  Which one would you take if you could have one this year from DeVonta or AJ?

Calvin Johnson in 2012 with 122 receptions, 1,964 yards and 5 TDs

Or

Randy Moss in 2007 with 98 receptions, 1,493 yards and 23 TDs

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Megatron almost seemed like they went into a lab and built a perfect andriod of an NFL WR.  Size...speed... strength... hands.  Not sure who was a better built WR than him.

I almost said the exact same thing as far as him being built in a lab.

But Moss had similar height and was noticeably faster on the field.

Very tough question, but I might give it to Moss. Some of the things he did were just outrageous.

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Foolish people then.  Imagine not valuing the anility to score TDs at a high rate. 

 

Let's expose this further.  Who had the better season at WR?

Calvin Johnson in 2012 with 122 receptions. 1,964 yards and 5 TDs

Or

Randy Moss in 2007 with 98 receptions, 1,493 yards and 23 TDs

Johnson without question. Moss’s probably isn’t even a top 5 WR season, much less his best season

34 minutes ago, 315Eagles said:

Without looking at stats I'd say maybe 5 and Jeff Garcia were close as far as being a pure passer.  Neither were great but good at times.

Garcia had better short/mid accuracy. McNabb had a huge arm and one of the best deep balls in the NFL.

1 minute ago, TEW said:

I almost said the exact same thing as far as him being built in a lab.

But Moss had similar height and was noticeably faster on the field.

Very tough question, but I might give it to Moss. Some of the things he did were just outrageous.

TO was very fast, but Moss had an extra gear that few players in NFL history had.  Hell, if Moss, with his stride length, made a career of the 100m dash, he probably would have given Bolt a run for his money.  That probably plays better in the 2023 NFL than a WR who played to contact fairly often.

 

9 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Johnson without question. Moss’s probably isn’t even a top 5 WR season, much less his best season

 

lmao, what a Fing a joke.

 

Randy Moss scored 138 points in 2007 as a major part of them going 16-0.  

 

Calvin Johnson scored 30 points in 2012 which were part of just the 234 total points the 4-12 Detroit Lions offense scored in 2012.  

 

Turns out scoring touchdowns at a high rate sure helps the team more than just piling up yards while not being able to get into the endzone at any high rate at all. 

 

 

Just now, eagle45 said:

TO was very fast, but Moss had an extra gear that few players in NFL history had.  Hell, if Moss, with his stride length, made a career of the 100m dash, he probably would have given Bolt a run for his money.  That probably plays better in the 2023 NFL than a WR who played to contact fairly often.

 

We were talking Megatron VS Moss, but I think what you said applies equally.

Moss is the most naturally gifted WR I’ve ever seen. Just so fast and fluid and sudden with enormous height and leaping ability and the body control to catch impossible passes.

3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

lmao, what a Fing a joke.

 

Randy Moss scored 138 points in 2007 as a major part of them going 16-0.  

 

Calvin Johnson scored 30 points in 2012 which were part of just the 234 total points the 4-12 Detroit Lions offense scored in 2012.  

 

Turns out scoring touchdowns at a high rate sure helps the team more than just piling up yards while not being able to get into the endzone at any high rate at all.  

Helps the offense* score TDs. A 1900 yard WR has a significantly higher usage rate than a sub-1500 WR. An offensive coordinator telling you they’re gonna run the ball at the 5 yard line doesn’t suddenly make you a worse WR. 

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

lmao, what a Fing a joke.

 

Randy Moss scored 138 points in 2007 as a major part of them going 16-0.  

 

Calvin Johnson scored 30 points in 2012 which were part of just the 234 total points the 4-12 Detroit Lions offense scored in 2012.  

 

Turns out scoring touchdowns at a high rate sure helps the team more than just piling up yards while not being able to get into the endzone at any high rate at all.  

Moss also did that with Brady throwing him the ball in one of the greatest offenses of all time.

If you replaced Moss with Johnson, I think their stats would look similar.

Johnson was the Lions workhorse on a bad team, Moss was the playmaker on a great team.

1 minute ago, TEW said:

We were talking Megatron VS Moss, but I think what you said applies equally.

Moss is the most naturally gifted WR I’ve ever seen. Just so fast and fluid and sudden with enormous height and leaping ability and the body control to catch impossible passes.

Same with Megatron.  TO and Megatron were pretty similar...Megatron being bigger and faster...still slower than Moss.  Megatron's body did not age as well, for whatever reason.  He may have been the physical specimen amongst all physical specimens, but that's a physical trait too and he definitely trailed TO and Moss in that department.

47 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

True or false: Mcnabb was the worst pure passer that TO spent extensive time with in his career.

TO had an All-Pro season with McNabb. It’s an all-around dumb question. Sorry 

1 minute ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

TO had an All-Pro season with McNabb. It’s an all-around dumb question. Sorry 

TO also had an all pro season With Romo and three with Garcia.

5 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

He's #3 on my list.  

LeBeau
Carson
Ryan
BB

All great coaches. Saban and BB were a great pairing.  Saban as a coverage scheme developer is amazing.  The Cleveland team wasn’t but what the two have both developed is pretty damned important to modern football defense.  Gary Patterson was damned creative too.  LeBeau was a bit like Nick’s approach, devising the defense towards his players’ strengths.  You can see the influence of BB with Desai and Nick, probably with the Patricia hire.  BB believes in practicing everything so that he can design the D for a given game and the players will be ready.  Look at some of the gimmicks we have seen in practices this summer and even in the Ravens game.  Plain vanilla and then not.

Just now, TEW said:

I almost said the exact same thing as far as him being built in a lab.

But Moss had similar height and was noticeably faster on the field.

Very tough question, but I might give it to Moss. Some of the things he did were just outrageous.

I hear the Moss argument... but I don't know that there was something that Moss could do that Megatron couldn't do.  

 

Hard to compare... but Megatron has a higher reception per game rate (5.4 vs. 4.5), higher yards per game (86.1 vs. 70.1), yards per target (8.9 vs. 8.8) and yards per reception (15.9 vs 15.6).   Oh, and more rushing yards on fewer attempts, for whatever good that means, and a rushing TD.  Moss had none.
Moss has higher Tds/game (0.71 vs. 0.61), higher catch % (56.4% vs. 55.7%).

Moss was 1st team All-Pro 4x.  Megatron was 1st team All-Pro 3x, 2nd team AP 1x.   
Moss was a Pro Bowler 6 times.  Megatron was a Pro Bowler 6 times (all consecutive for his last 6 seasons).... 

 

And then the big question... Megatron retired during his prime.  What could he have done if he continued to play another 4-5 years?  It's projection, so no one can know.  

But, for my money, I'd take a prime Calvin Johnson over any WR in their prime not named Jerry Rice.

Just now, Aerolithe_Lion said:

TO also had an all pro season With Romo and three with Garcia.

Ok? McNabb was a good QB. He had his faults but ppl still love crapping on him. The success he had with the weapons he had is more than respectable. 

9 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Helps the offense* score TDs. A 1900 yard WR has a significantly higher usage rate than a sub-1500 WR. An offensive coordinator telling you they’re gonna run the ball at the 5 yard line doesn’t suddenly make you a worse WR. 

 

Helps the offense *maybe* score TDs.  Yards mean jack crap if you aren't scoring.  And scoring doesn't mean as much if you aren't scoring touchdowns instead of settling for field goals.  This isn't fantasy football.  This is real football.  And in real football you don't get awarded points simply for gaining yards.  Meanwhile if you score a touchdown you get the most amount of points you can get in a single play in the game. 

 

Calvin Johnson had 1,900+ yards in 2012 but he only scored 5 TDs.  The Lions offense as a whole only scored 39 total touchdowns that year.  Randy Moss alone had 23 TDs in 2007.  

 

Is the 24 more receptions and 471 more yards that Calvin Johnson had really worth more to you than the 18 more touchdowns that Randy Moss had?  Because that's what you're saying.  

Moss was a great player but Megatron was the guy you create in Madden that is 99 everything.