1 hour ago, mattwill said:

3-4 DEs line up with their hand in the dirt as well. It would be nice if there were clean lines of demarcation, but there aren’t. For example, Brandon Graham was clearly a DE in the 4-3 alignment. What was he in Fangio’s hybrid 3-4?

Correct....3 guys with their hand in the dirt....sometimes both hands in the dirt....then on either side of the 3 DL...you have an edge....

When it's 2 guys in between the edges. . I don't view it as 3-4.

For me if Dallas Goedert lined up in the backfield 2 yards in front of Barkley for 20 plays in a row... he could be listed as a TE, but to me he is playing FB

To each their own. . Again for me, I look at the function not the label.

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Correct....3 guys with their hand in the dirt....sometimes both hands in the dirt....then on either side of the 3 DL...you have an edge....

When it's 2 guys in between the edges. . I don't view it as 3-4.

For me if Dallas Goedert lined up in the backfield 2 yards in front of Barkley for 20 plays in a row... he could be listed as a TE, but to me he is playing FB

To each their own. . Again for me, I look at the function not the label.

I look at the function as well, and in Fangio’s scheme the function of the two edges is OLB. Do you not agree?

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

A duck.

With one exception all our edges are OLB ducks. ZS is the exception edge.

Will he function differently? Will he set the edge vs the run and rush the OT on a pass play?

Does it matter the color of a duck...or is a duck a duck?

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

I would say we have a 4 man front that (most of the time) identifies itself as a 2 man front.

With that said, Fangio’s expectations of his OLBs is much more important than any chart designation. He expects them to be able to drop into coverage as LBs. 4-3 DEs are not expected to do that. Nor are 3-4 DEs.

That's great...how many snaps did Nolan Smith drop in coverage? Quack quack quack....but it's a chicken?

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

You are ignoring Fangio’s expectation tha his edges often have nothing to do with the OTs, but rather have coverage responsibility in one of the seven zones in Fangio’s zone scheme.

Im not ignoring anything.... im looking at the play, where the player lines up and what his job is on the play.

1 hour ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

IMO the KC secondary is the one who will be tested. I suspect a few deep shots to open up ,but I would like to avoid a "shootout". We need to maintain control and take the deep shots when they present themselves. I don't see any problems unless we really come out flat

Dickerson is key....if he is hos regular self vs if he plays slow and weak.

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

If Q rushes the QB he won’t be stunting with one of the front four. They can’t get back into his Boundary Quarters zone to cover any receiver who enters that xone on a route. Either a Safety or the NCB or Baun or Campbell will rotate into the zone Q abandons when he rushes.

Excuse me...front what...did you say 4???

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

If Q rushes the QB he won’t be stunting with one of the front four. They can’t get back into his Boundary Quarters zone to cover any receiver who enters that xone on a route. Either a Safety or the NCB or Baun or Campbell will rotate into the zone Q abandons when he rushes.

So keep your thought moving to the rest of the formation here... Q rushes, the LB slides over to cover his area. The other LB slides over to cover the area the 1st LB vacated...then Dejean slides over to take the 2nd LBs area...and finally the edge opposite of Q.... drops to cover for DeJean..

They rotate like we know they do...it's not " one guy covers for the blitzer...we know the reality is that it starts a rotation.

So would you qualify Q rushing as a blitz or a stunt?

I would call it a blitz. Similar to when DeJean rushed from the right slot and Smith dropped into coverage from the left edge as Baun and Dean rotated to cover for DeJean. To me, DeJean blitzes the QB on that play...not a stunt

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

What role does Ojomo play that is any different than any other DE in a 3-4?

A DL in a 3 -4 has a role to play with 2 other interior DL. they share the space among 3 DTs... not sharing it with one other guy as the two interior DT in a 4 man front.

50 minutes ago, mattwill said:

FWIW, some intel about no scripted plays against the Cowboys.

Correct..it's exactly what I said...Patullo said no script...no recon... none of that vs Dallas.

Of course one could think the unknown of a defense would want you to do " recon " and have a script.

The reason he gave ...which is didn't think was important...is because I thought it's BS. I think any script will be limited if not even just never used.

But I also think he doesn't want to come out and say it....so he had to come up with some BS excuse about Dallas to get the media off his back

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Will he function differently? Will he set the edge vs the run and rush the OT on a pass play?

Does it matter the color of a duck...or is a duck a duck?

He will do both those things, but like BG last year, he will not drop into pass protection coverage.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

That's great...how many snaps did Nolan Smith drop in coverage? Quack quack quack....but it's a chicken?

Your job description for an OLB and Fangio‘s job description of an OLB appear to be out of sync. Which one do you think is more important yours or Fangio’s?

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Im not ignoring anything.... im looking at the play, where the player lines up and what his job is on the play.

Am I correct in understanding that your bottom line is only on a play by play basis rather than a holistic entire game basis. Is that correct?

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Im not ignoring anything.... im looking at the play, where the player lines up and what his job is on the play.

One of the hallmarks of Fangio‘s defenses is flexibility and surprise. In your approach, you do not appear to be taking flexibility and surprise into consideration.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Im not ignoring anything.... im looking at the play, where the player lines up and what his job is on the play.

To help illustrate the holistic alternative to your granular approach, think about "the play” you are describing above, which you are analyzing at the time of its completion, and move back in time to just before the snap of that play. At that presnap moment do you have any way of knowing what Fangio has assigned to each of the OLBs as their "job” on the play?

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Excuse me...front what...did you say 4???

Yes, for the purposes of covering the Boundary zone Q is abandoning neither the front 4 players, nor the opposite side Boundary CB can effectively rotate into Q’s zone. In all likelihood the far side Safety and the far side ILB can’t either. Only the near side Safety, the Nickel CB, and the near side ILB are close enough to Q’s zone to replace his coverage of that zone.

2 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Who are the pass catchers this week?

Jujuan Jennings and probably Pearsall

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

So keep your thought moving to the rest of the formation here... Q rushes, the LB slides over to cover his area. The other LB slides over to cover the area the 1st LB vacated...then Dejean slides over to take the 2nd LBs area...and finally the edge opposite of Q.... drops to cover for DeJean..

They rotate like we know they do...it's not " one guy covers for the blitzer...we know the reality is that it starts a rotation.

So would you qualify Q rushing as a blitz or a stunt?

I would call it a blitz. Similar to when DeJean rushed from the right slot and Smith dropped into coverage from the left edge as Baun and Dean rotated to cover for DeJean. To me, DeJean blitzes the QB on that play...not a stunt

It is a blitz if no one rotates out of the normal pass rush contingent to provide pass protection coverage. If the number of rushers is greater than normal it is a blitz. If the number of rushers is the same as normal, then it could either be a rotation like you described or a stunt if the players rushing the passer are from the 2-4 part of the 2-4-5 or the 4-2 part of the 4-2-5.

In a simultaneous conversation in another thread we are discussing whether Fangio runs a 2-4-5 or a 4-2-5. One of the interesting answers has been that it is a 2-4-5 with a 3-4-4 variant on certain plays. It is a fun conversation, just as this one has been fun/invigorating.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

A DL in a 3 -4 has a role to play with 2 other interior DL. they share the space among 3 DTs... not sharing it with one other guy as the two interior DT in a 4 man front.

In a 3-4 you have one DT (NT) and two DEs, not three DTs.

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Correct..it's exactly what I said...Patullo said no script...no recon... none of that vs Dallas.

Of course one could think the unknown of a defense would want you to do " recon " and have a script.

The reason he gave ...which is didn't think was important...is because I thought it's BS. I think any script will be limited if not even just never used.

But I also think he doesn't want to come out and say it....so he had to come up with some BS excuse about Dallas to get the media off his back

When did he say that? I missed it. I would love to listen to it. Is video available?

1 hour ago, mattwill said:

Your job description for an OLB and Fangio‘s job description of an OLB appear to be out of sync. Which one do you think is more important yours or Fangio’s?

How many times did Smith drop into coverage?

The job description is what the player does on a play right... his function. Do you disagree?

So if Smith drops into coverage twice in a game...but rushes all the other pass plays and sets the edge right up at the line for ALL of the run plays....does he not function as a 4-3 DE for the bulk of his snaps?

As I have been stating and been consistent this whole time... to me how the player functions is more important than any label ...that includes the team's marketing department or Fangio.

I respect that he wants Smith to have the ability to drop into coverage every so often... good for Fangio...but we all know that isn't what is going to make Smith impact the game. His edge setting vs the run and his pass rushing ( the functions of a traditional 4-3 DE) are what will impact the game

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

How many times did Smith drop into coverage?

The job description is what the player does on a play right... his function. Do you disagree?

So if Smith drops into coverage twice in a game...but rushes all the other pass plays and sets the edge right up at the line for ALL of the run plays....does he not function as a 4-3 DE for the bulk of his snaps?

As I have been stating and been consistent this whole time... to me how the player functions is more important than any label ...that includes the team's marketing department or Fangio.

I respect that he wants Smith to have the ability to drop into coverage every so often... good for Fangio...but we all know that isn't what is going to make Smith impact the game. His edge setting vs the run and his pass rushing ( the functions of a traditional 4-3 DE) are what will impact the game

You are confusing performance and expectation. Fangio expects all his OLBs to be proficient (or greater) in dropping back in coverage. It is also part of those players’ preparation. The fact that the opportunity to use that well prepared skill is an accident of circumstance.

Imagine you are one of Fangio’s OLBs. Are you really going to tell him that you don’t need to have dropping back into coverage in your arsenal because it doesn’t come up often enough in a live game setting "to count.” You wouldn’t be one of his players for long.

On the other hand if a DE playing for a 4-3 DC said the same thing to that DC, the DC wouldn’t have a problem because that proficiency isn’t part of the job description of a 4-3 DE.

Have you ever been working for a company that was in the process of cresting or revising their job descriptions? Or have you ever gone to HR at your company and read the job description for your specific position with the company? HR departments are full of anal BS like written job descriptions.

Or have you ever noticed how many tasks/responsibilities that are listed in your job description, which rarely come up in the course of a work day? Even though they rarely come up, you are responsible for being proficient and prepared so that when they do come up you can easily execute them with high quality.

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

Am I correct in understanding that your bottom line is only on a play by play basis rather than a holistic entire game basis. Is that correct?

You are correct in my view of a player is what his job is and how he functions...correct. That is what matters to me, that my player successfully accomplish his assignment.

2 hours ago, mattwill said:

One of the hallmarks of Fangio‘s defenses is flexibility and surprise. In your approach, you do not appear to be taking flexibility and surprise into consideration.

Im talking about after the play is over.. what was the player's assignment and did he do his job. Correct.

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

You are correct in my view of a player is what his job is and how he functions...correct. That is what matters to me, that my player successfully accomplish his assignment.

Have you ever reviewed Fangio’s documentation of what he expects from each position?