Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[NOTW]

10 hours ago, kentwo said:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/nfl-rumors-malcolm-jenkins-tries-170017270.html

Quote

 

Here's how Long and Jenkins attacked that line of thinking:

"JENKINS: All of these things that have happened to him, it may be hard to overcome those things in Philly, but now that he's somewhere else, those lessons are going to be things that he will learn from and lean on and make him a better leader, especially the locker room stuff. Because like you've said, he's not a locker room cancer. We played with him, and that's not it. 

"LONG: You want him to reach out more.

"JENKINS: Yeah, what teams want from their quarterback, and what teams want from their leaders, that's something I think he's had to grow with.

"[...]

"LONG: This has existed as this extreme conversation when, he's got things to fix, but I don't remember ever thinking, 'What an a**hole.'"

"JENKINS: Nah. Nah. Never."

 

 

[NOTW]

From December:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30485609/fletcher-cox-jason-kelce-stand-carson-wentz-philadelphia-eagles
 

Quote

 

Defensive tackle Fletcher Cox stood by his recent Twitter activity in which he cast a vote for Wentz by "liking" a post asking users to retweet for Hurts or "like" for Wentz.

"Carson is my best friend. He's my guy," Cox said. "I've always had his back since Day 1. Jalen, he's my teammate also, so you've got to support whoever is in there. It's the NFL and we understand that things happen. It sucks for a guy like Carson to be put in that position because it never just comes down to one guy; there are 11 guys on the field.

"With that being said, my tweet is my tweet and I stand with it."

Center Jason Kelce was effusive in his praise of Wentz and expressed bewilderment over how the situation devolved to a point where the QB has now been replaced.

"The moment he came in his rookie year, he transformed our offense, and that's not just as a player -- that's him as a person. That's the intelligence he brings, the athleticism he brings. The competitiveness he brings made a tangible difference in practice every day and on game day. So it's kind of hard to believe we're at this point, to be honest with you," Kelce said. "This is ultimately a culmination of a lot of failures on offense.

 

 

[NOTW]

From 2019 rumors about him not being a good teammate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NOTW]

So to recap the list of players who have defended Wentz in the past year, last December when he was benched, and recently after being traded former players supporting him:

• Fletcher Cox
• Brandon Brooks
• Lane Johnson
• Jason Kelce
• Zach Ertz
• Nate Sudfeld
• Malcolm Jenkins
• Chris Long
• Torrey Smith

 

[Infam]

6 minutes ago, NOTW said:

From 2019 rumors about him not being a good teammate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Two years ago. Feels like an eternity.

[NOTW]

8 minutes ago, Infam said:

Two years ago. Feels like an eternity.

Some of the arguments against Carson are linked from 2 years ago as well.  I also posted from Dec 2020 which was 2 months ago, and there are comments from Smith, Jenkins and Long within the last week.  No current players are saying anything since the season ended though.

[SBorBust]

56 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

Please, idk if this even makes the top 5.

IMO, the sheer volume of whiny, thoughtless, us-vs-them posts ranks this thread the worst. You can go pages without finding a constructive, thoughtful comment.

[EaglesRocker97]

Since it apparently must be repeated ad nauseum with these strawmen hanging on, here it is again: Wentz is a nice guy. Wentz is a good person. Wentz even seems like he's probably fun to be around. What he doesn't seem to be, though, is strong in the self-awareness and leadership departments, and those are two things that can be masked during periods of success but become glaringly obvious when you're in a downward spiral as a team. You can find plenty of quotes speaking to those positive qualities, but that's neither here nor there. It seems obvious that the guy definitely has some good character traits, but it should also be just as obvious that he has some issues with maturity/attitude. When he was truly faced with adversity for probably the first time in his life, he didn't rise to the occasion. Maybe Reich can fix that and he'll be successful, but that would also be no matter in my mind, because he clearly had issues here that could not be ironed out in Philly.

[SNOORDA]

23 hours ago, time2rock said:

"He asked me very respectfully, and I just appreciated him for that.”

They’re already walking on eggshells around him because they know he has a fragile ego.

 

 

Can i get your #11?  No?  Ok well i was going to change #’s anyways...

[time2rock]

2 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Can i get your #11?  No?  Ok well i was going to change #’s anyways...

Boy to girl at high school dance:

"Do you want to dance?"

"No"

"That's OK, I gotta take a ish anyway!"

[NOTW]

2 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Since it apparently must be repeated ad nauseum with these strawmen hanging on, here it is again: Wentz is a nice guy. Wentz is a good person. Wentz even seems like he's probably fun to be around. What he doesn't seem to be, though, is strong in the self-awareness and leadership departments, and those are two things that can be masked during periods of success but become glaringly obvious when you're in a downward spiral as a team. You can find plenty of quotes speaking to those positive qualities, but that's neither here nor there. It seems obvious that the guy definitely has some good character traits, but it should also be just as obvious that he has some issues with maturity/attitude. When he was truly faced with adversity for probably the first time in his life, he didn't rise to the occasion. Maybe Reich can fix that and he'll be successful, but that would also be no matter in my mind, because he clearly had issues here that could not be ironed out in Philly.

Fair post, but plenty of people are not acknowledging he's a good person.  Tell that to the guys who are calling him a bum, petulant, child, weak, soft, bad teammate, hypocritical Christian, cancer, etc.  There is a narrative that is making him out to be a terrible person and a diva and people are lapping it up.

I'm posting facts as we know them, including media reports that are critical of him.   I posted direct quotes from actual teammates in public on record about Wentz as opposed to "unnamed source" reports that a lot of people believe without question.

[NOTW]

Also remember that Frank Reich - who was the main factor lobbying to get Wentz to Indy - when he was here said that he LIKED that Carson was egotistical and demanding.  He liked a QB that wanted input and was invested and he could work with that.  There have been reports that the dynamic with Reich (experienced OC who worked with veteran QBs) was able to make that situation work but after Reich (when Carson's production started going downwards) the relationship with the coaches wasn't there.

Malcolm Jenkins said the coaches coddled Wentz ego too much and didn't hold him accountable.   He had a horrible year last year and I wanted him benched, he was making bad decisions despite the coaching you can't blame all that on coaching.  He needs to do a lot of work to get back to that level, and face some humility.  

Carson probably never had to face the humility of being benched and didn't know how to handle it.  Doug was soft with him, he kept standing up in press conferences defending him and blaming the O line and receivers and even coaches.  

It seems like a good parting of ways for both parties.  Many teammates and coaches have praised Wentz character, work ethic and being a good teammate.  We'll see how he does with a fresh start in Indy.

 

 

[CheesesteakNBeer]

1 hour ago, SNOORDA said:

Can i get your #11?  No?  Ok well i was going to change #’s anyways...

I know a guy Wentz can call for that #11..

[DBW]

Jason avant- said crap started in 2018 when they made Carson sit because of the back injury he was trying to play through.  Sounds like a complete dysfunction and we know the medical team was held accountable for and fired because of how they handled that and other players.  

[NOTW]

Helpful to post links and tweets not just say things.

Wentz haters:  he's soft, weak.

Avant: Carson wanted to play through injury, the team chose to bench him for Foles.  

 

 

[kentwo]

9 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Since it apparently must be repeated ad nauseum with these strawmen hanging on, here it is again: Wentz is a nice guy. Wentz is a good person. Wentz even seems like he's probably fun to be around. What he doesn't seem to be, though, is strong in the self-awareness and leadership departments, and those are two things that can be masked during periods of success but become glaringly obvious when you're in a downward spiral as a team. You can find plenty of quotes speaking to those positive qualities, but that's neither here nor there. It seems obvious that the guy definitely has some good character traits, but it should also be just as obvious that he has some issues with maturity/attitude. When he was truly faced with adversity for probably the first time in his life, he didn't rise to the occasion. Maybe Reich can fix that and he'll be successful, but that would also be no matter in my mind, because he clearly had issues here that could not be ironed out in Philly.

The first part was accurate, he does seem to be a good guy based on all accounts. 

But the second part becomes opinionated and somewhat biased. Leadership is not a static trait. There is not one type of leader that works for everyone or in every situation. Some people might like the yell in your face leadership, others might want the action before words, or maybe even the silent type of leader. What the articles do infer is that Wentz style of leadership may not have been what Jenkins or others expect. Doesn't mean he is not a leader, just means he didn't fit what some people's opinion of a leader. As for his maturity level or attitude, none of the reports from named sources really criticize him for being immature. He didn't speak out to the media like some of the other QBs have. He kept everything internal which is what should be done, it doesn't concern anyone but him and the team. As for the facing adversity, you can't say he didn't rise to the occasion. He carried the team to the playoffs with no WRs over 500 yards last year. This year was obviously a struggle, but there wasn't much help with the play calling, Oline and WR play. If he tried to carry the team, he'd force the ball to WRs not open and people would criticize him for hero ball. Then he tried throwing the ball away and the team's offense stalls and can't get anything going. So it is not accurate to say he didn't rise to the occasion because it is a fair inference that not many QBs could have been successful in that situation. 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

5 hours ago, NOTW said:

Helpful to post links and tweets not just say things.

Wentz haters:  he's soft, weak.

Avant: Carson wanted to play through injury, the team chose to bench him for Foles.  

 

 

Has anyone called him soft and weak?  I've seen obstinate, injury prone and a-hole, not soft or weak.

He had a stress fracture of the spine and we were staring down the barrel of 6-10 the way he was playing when they benched him. This is absurd, and not only that being pissed at an organisation taking a decision that is beneficial for your long term health and career is not something that says 'hey look this guy isn't a primadonna after all'

and I'm not saying it's definitely not true, and frankly this entire thread degenerated into pointless farce the day Wentz joined the Colts, but I can't recall a single example of team mates on a major professional sports team calling another team mate out for being a **** on social media while they were playing together, other than absolute basket cases like Antonio Brown, it just doesn't happen, most sports players don't call out teammates even when they're fired for being a **** or convicted for worse.

[greend]

3 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Has anyone called him soft and weak?  I've seen obstinate, injury prone and a-hole, not soft or weak.

He had a stress fracture of the spine and we were staring down the barrel of 6-10 the way he was playing when they benched him. This is absurd, and not only that being pissed at an organisation taking a decision that is beneficial for your long term health and career is not something that says 'hey look this guy isn't a primadonna after all'

and I'm not saying it's definitely not true, and frankly this entire thread degenerated into pointless farce the day Wentz joined the Colts, but I can't recall a single example of team mates on a major professional sports team calling another team mate out for being a **** on social media while they were playing together, other than absolute basket cases like Antonio Brown, it just doesn't happen, most sports players don't call out teammates even when they're fired for being a **** or convicted for worse.

Yes, people have called him "mentally soft".

Although I'm not sure why we keep arguing about it he's gone and not coming back

[brkmsn]

18 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Since it apparently must be repeated ad nauseum with these strawmen hanging on, here it is again: Wentz is a nice guy. Wentz is a good person. Wentz even seems like he's probably fun to be around. What he doesn't seem to be, though, is strong in the self-awareness and leadership departments, and those are two things that can be masked during periods of success but become glaringly obvious when you're in a downward spiral as a team. You can find plenty of quotes speaking to those positive qualities, but that's neither here nor there. It seems obvious that the guy definitely has some good character traits, but it should also be just as obvious that he has some issues with maturity/attitude. When he was truly faced with adversity for probably the first time in his life, he didn't rise to the occasion. Maybe Reich can fix that and he'll be successful, but that would also be no matter in my mind, because he clearly had issues here that could not be ironed out in Philly.

The maturation process is an ongoing thing in a person's life. Clearly Wentz still has maturing to do, but that's normal. Hurts was praised a bit by teammates for his maturity as a rookie, so in his case, hopefully he remains ahead of Wentz (as a player) in that department. As for the leadership claim, I would refute that a bit. Other team leaders have supported him as "the team leader" and defended him in that regard. But as "the team leader," you can't lead if you're replaced (like they did to Wentz this year with Hurts). If that had been a benching (a lesson to learn from) the team would have put Wentz back in the following week or so --- especially late in the season when a playoff appearance was on the line. They did not. That made the move a replacement. So it's weird you're criticizing his leadership when he was not in a position to lead. 

As for the self-awareness, I just think some people misunderstand him. Some are even purposefully twisting his comments to paint him negatively there. 

[NOTW]

7 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Has anyone called him soft and weak?  I've seen obstinate, injury prone and a-hole, not soft or weak.

He had a stress fracture of the spine and we were staring down the barrel of 6-10 the way he was playing when they benched him. This is absurd, and not only that being pissed at an organisation taking a decision that is beneficial for your long term health and career is not something that says 'hey look this guy isn't a primadonna after all'

and I'm not saying it's definitely not true, and frankly this entire thread degenerated into pointless farce the day Wentz joined the Colts, but I can't recall a single example of team mates on a major professional sports team calling another team mate out for being a **** on social media while they were playing together, other than absolute basket cases like Antonio Brown, it just doesn't happen, most sports players don't call out teammates even when they're fired for being a **** or convicted for worse.

Yes.  Soft, weak, frail, etc.  

[Cochis_Calhoun]

1 minute ago, NOTW said:

Yes.  Soft, weak, frail, etc.  

I dunno man, you sticking up for Wentz against allcomers like this is like when you screwed over Iron Man for Bucky Barnes.

[NOTW]

19 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I dunno man, you sticking up for Wentz against allcomers like this is like when you screwed over Iron Man for Bucky Barnes.

Nah.  Just posting alternatives to the narratives, trying to focus on facts and what we know from direct quotes.  I've been critical of Wentz, both his performance and how he's handled the situation going back to when he watched Foles win the SB MVP.  I was heavily critical of him in the past 2 seasons when people blamed injuries to O line and WRs and I said despite that he's making bad decisions and has regressed.  This year I called for him to be benched and said he's making terrible decisions and has lost basic fundamentals.

What I don't do, is pile on with emotional hyperbole and made up narratives.  A perfect example is the very normal, no big deal issue at all of simply asking about his jersey number.  Every high profile player does this when they go to a new team.  Guys turned it into Wentz being a diva or something, despite Pittman saying he was respectful about it.  

Reports cite "unnamed sources" of Wentz being a bad teammate.  So I post direct quotes from most of the core veterans of the team saying that stuff is not true, he's a good teammate.  Fans don't want to believe that, they want to believe the gossip that reporters post.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, NOTW said:

Reports cite "unnamed sources" of Wentz being a bad teammate.  So I post direct quotes from most of the core veterans of the team saying that stuff is not true, he's a good teammate.  Fans don't want to believe that, they want to believe the gossip that reporters post.

Why would people believe what people in the locker room actually put their name on when they can create their own narrative to support their own agenda.

I can't wait to here the made up crap that comes out when the Colts win 10-12 games and host a playoff game, while the Eagles are last in the NFCE.  Somehow, that will be Carson's fault.

[pallidrone]

7 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Has anyone called him soft and weak?  I've seen obstinate, injury prone and a-hole, not soft or weak.

He had a stress fracture of the spine and we were staring down the barrel of 6-10 the way he was playing when they benched him. This is absurd, and not only that being pissed at an organisation taking a decision that is beneficial for your long term health and career is not something that says 'hey look this guy isn't a primadonna after all'

and I'm not saying it's definitely not true, and frankly this entire thread degenerated into pointless farce the day Wentz joined the Colts, but I can't recall a single example of team mates on a major professional sports team calling another team mate out for being a **** on social media while they were playing together, other than absolute basket cases like Antonio Brown, it just doesn't happen, most sports players don't call out teammates even when they're fired for being a **** or convicted for worse.

You are right - Team mates will never call out another player unless they are trying to talk their way out of a situation. What they will do is not comment or talk about that player at all. Players never know when they might have to play with a certain player or what side the organization is going to take. 

That is why it is silly to even try to look and compare tweets from players that support Wentz. It really means nothing at all.

What you have to look at is what happened outside of the bubble of the team. There was too much smoke about Wentz from different sources with no real response from the organization or Wentz countering those rumors.

[nipples]

He’s gone. Some of you can remove your lips from his phallus now.