Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[NOTW]

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

Why would people believe what people in the locker room actually put their name on when they can create their own narrative to support their own agenda.

Confirmation bias.  People said last year why aren't Carson's teammates speaking out?  A bunch did, respected veterans of the team.  But notice how it's quickly dismissed as, well of course anyone who goes public would only have positive comments.  THOSE comments don't mean anything. 

Malcolm Jenkins said the coaches coddled Carson's ego and bam, they believed that comment even though what he was really saying was the coaches weren't doing a good job holding him accountable.  Malcolm then last week says that Carson is not a bad guy and those things aren't true and that comment from him isn't believed, only the one that was negative.

Carson likely has a big ego (like most pro athletes) and didn't handle things well.  The organization didn't handle things well either.  I think we've all been in situations where we felt wronged or not appreciated by our company, manager, etc.  I'm sure everyone who posts attacking Wentz conducts themselves with the incredibly high standard they have for him.

[Bwestbrook36]

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

I think we've all been in situations where we felt wronged or not appreciated by our company, manager, etc

Going through that right now

[kentwo]

2 hours ago, NOTW said:

Confirmation bias.  People said last year why aren't Carson's teammates speaking out?  A bunch did, respected veterans of the team.  But notice how it's quickly dismissed as, well of course anyone who goes public would only have positive comments.  THOSE comments don't mean anything. 

Malcolm Jenkins said the coaches coddled Carson's ego and bam, they believed that comment even though what he was really saying was the coaches weren't doing a good job holding him accountable.  Malcolm then last week says that Carson is not a bad guy and those things aren't true and that comment from him isn't believed, only the one that was negative.

Carson likely has a big ego (like most pro athletes) and didn't handle things well.  The organization didn't handle things well either.  I think we've all been in situations where we felt wronged or not appreciated by our company, manager, etc.  I'm sure everyone who posts attacking Wentz conducts themselves with the incredibly high standard they have for him.

 

Totally agree.

Conspiracy theories begin when people either: Do not have enough information or Do not believe information. So they start to believe what they want to believe and share that belief as a true story.

[NOTW]

5 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Going through that right now

I know what you do and what chaos you're facing.  Hang in there man.

[EagleVA]

11 hours ago, kentwo said:

Conspiracy theories 

"Conspiracy Theory" was a term coined by the CIA to discredit those who are able to see through the BS, it has nothing to do with believing what someone wants to believe, it's about  applying critical thinking to what they've investigated.

Unfortunately critical thinking isn't emphasized in America today, we're taught what to think instead of how to think, aka logical reasoning, this is why so many fall for hoaxes, hoaxes that are often perpetrated by the CIA. 

[EagleJoe8]

42 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

"Conspiracy Theory" was a term coined by the CIA to discredit those who are able to see through the BS, it has nothing to do with believing what someone wants to believe, it's about  applying critical thinking to what they've investigated.

Unfortunately critical thinking isn't emphasized in America today, we're taught what to think instead of how to think, aka logical reasoning, this is why so many...mainly myself... fall for hoaxes, hoaxes that are often perpetrated by the CIA YouTube. 

Fixed that for ya. 

[NCTANK]

11 hours ago, NOTW said:

I know what you do and what chaos you're facing.  Hang in there man.

i’m with you on that one 👍

[NOTW]

5 hours ago, EagleVA said:

"Conspiracy Theory" was a term coined by the CIA to discredit those who are able to see through the BS, it has nothing to do with believing what someone wants to believe, it's about  applying critical thinking to what they've investigated.

Unfortunately critical thinking isn't emphasized in America today, we're taught what to think instead of how to think, aka logical reasoning, this is why so many fall for hoaxes, hoaxes that are often perpetrated by the CIA. 

 

[EagleVA]

41 minutes ago, NOTW said:

 

It's better than going on and on about Wentz......dude is gone, forget about him.

[CheesesteakNBeer]

6 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

It's better than going on and on about Wentz......dude is gone, forget about him.

 

[flyerdog]

21 hours ago, NOTW said:

Confirmation bias.  People said last year why aren't Carson's teammates speaking out?  A bunch did, respected veterans of the team.  But notice how it's quickly dismissed as, well of course anyone who goes public would only have positive comments.  THOSE comments don't mean anything. 

Malcolm Jenkins said the coaches coddled Carson's ego and bam, they believed that comment even though what he was really saying was the coaches weren't doing a good job holding him accountable.  Malcolm then last week says that Carson is not a bad guy and those things aren't true and that comment from him isn't believed, only the one that was negative.

Carson likely has a big ego (like most pro athletes) and didn't handle things well.  The organization didn't handle things well either.  I think we've all been in situations where we felt wronged or not appreciated by our company, manager, etc.  I'm sure everyone who posts attacking Wentz conducts themselves with the incredibly high standard they have for him.

 therein lies the problem then....if you are not held accountable for mistakes..then the narrative becomes the blame game..as they say, normally you learn more from your failures than your successes, but only if you are able to identify those failures and the causes and then proactively correct them....so it then sounds like there was an environment where Carson was not held accountable for HIS mistakes...ergo it must be someone else's fault...think about how that might make his team mates feel and react

[NOTW]

40 minutes ago, flyerdog said:

 therein lies the problem then....if you are not held accountable for mistakes..then the narrative becomes the blame game..as they say, normally you learn more from your failures than your successes, but only if you are able to identify those failures and the causes and then proactively correct them....so it then sounds like there was an environment where Carson was not held accountable for HIS mistakes...ergo it must be someone else's fault...think about how that might make his team mates feel and react

No doubt.  I think there's blame to go around.  This is just my opinion, but I think once Reich and Flip left Doug and his new coaches were thinking they were dealing with a QB who was on the verge of being elite based on what they saw in 2017.  The organization believe that Carson would be taking them to multiple Super Bowls.  I think they believe the hype before they saw results, even a playoff win.  

Reich said he didn't mind Carson's ego, he actually liked it because it made him invested and want to have more command of the offense.  That dynamic worked for them.  But it didn't work after Reich left.  And with Doug and staff not holding Wentz accountable enough, and reports that Wentz would audible too much to change the plays it can create a dynamic where other players see the QB not being held accountable and can be an issue.

There's also the aspect of Carson having to do so much with so little.  At the end of 2019 season all the starting WRs and some O line were hurt.  He was throwing to receivers grabbed off practice squads from other teams, he barely knew their names.  Fans would see a reception to a guy and go "who?"  So you could understand how a starting QB feels like he's not surrounded with enough talent to be successful.  And then to see they draft JJAW who sucks and they could have had Metcalf.  They draft Reagor who is ok, and could have had Jefferson.  I could see Carson struggling this year (lots of it his own fault) and defending himself thinking I don't have the weapons, my O line is hurt all the time, and then add on that they drafted a QB in the 2nd to replace me instead of get me a talented weapon to help me.

He could have and should have handled things better.  I like how Aaron Rodgers just got pissed off that they drafted a QB but said you know what, I'm the starter this is my team and watch me go out and perform.  

[Bwestbrook36]

3 hours ago, NOTW said:

Wentz would audible too much to change the plays it can create a dynamic where other players see the QB not being held accountable and can be an issue.

I know that all to well!! Lol. 

[SNOORDA]

On 2/24/2021 at 2:24 PM, CheesesteakNBeer said:

I know a guy Wentz can call for that #11..

Ok im not trying to dog wentz on this.  His number and whatever is his business. But the impression i got when reading how the interaction went down was that wentz asked for number #11 and when he got rejected he felt the need to act like he didnt want it anyways.  That’s playing checkers not chess. Kinda weak especially when you know damn well your leadership skills are in question and everyone is watching everything you do and say

anyways, im saying it here and now, if wentz goes off next season im banning myself from tate because i dont want to be drown in wentz apologists tears. 

[CheesesteakNBeer]

11 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Ok im not trying to dog wentz on this.  His number and whatever is his business. But the impression i got when reading how the interaction went down was that wentz asked for number #11 and when he got rejected he felt the need to act like he didnt want it anyways.  That’s playing checkers not chess. Kinda weak especially when you know damn well your leadership skills are in question and everyone is watching everything you do and say

anyways, im saying it here and now, if wentz goes off next season im banning myself from tate because i dont want to be drown in wentz apologists tears. 

Whats that have to do with Gil Renard?

[NOTW]

36 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

Ok im not trying to dog wentz on this.  His number and whatever is his business. But the impression i got when reading how the interaction went down was that wentz asked for number #11 and when he got rejected he felt the need to act like he didnt want it anyways.  That’s playing checkers not chess. Kinda weak especially when you know damn well your leadership skills are in question and everyone is watching everything you do and say

 

On 2/22/2021 at 11:32 PM, NOTW said:

The quote: 

"Yeah, so I spoke to [Carson] and he was just seeing how locked in I was to No. 11, and I told him I was locked in -- and he was like, 'That's cool, bro, because I'm probably gonna switch anyway,'" Pittman told TMZ Sports. "... He asked me very respectfully, and I just appreciated him for that. I think he's a great dude, because lots of guys with his status, they would come in and demand and stuff like that."

This is such a dumb thing to criticize about.  Carson could have been thinking about what to do about jersey number, casually asked Pittman and when he didn't want to, he said ok no worries.  Pittman said from his own mouth he was respectful.  Seems like a non-story.  yet people are making it dramatic.

[flyerdog]

5 hours ago, NOTW said:

No doubt.  I think there's blame to go around.  This is just my opinion, but I think once Reich and Flip left Doug and his new coaches were thinking they were dealing with a QB who was on the verge of being elite based on what they saw in 2017.  The organization believe that Carson would be taking them to multiple Super Bowls.  I think they believe the hype before they saw results, even a playoff win.  

Reich said he didn't mind Carson's ego, he actually liked it because it made him invested and want to have more command of the offense.  That dynamic worked for them.  But it didn't work after Reich left.  And with Doug and staff not holding Wentz accountable enough, and reports that Wentz would audible too much to change the plays it can create a dynamic where other players see the QB not being held accountable and can be an issue.

There's also the aspect of Carson having to do so much with so little.  At the end of 2019 season all the starting WRs and some O line were hurt.  He was throwing to receivers grabbed off practice squads from other teams, he barely knew their names.  Fans would see a reception to a guy and go "who?"  So you could understand how a starting QB feels like he's not surrounded with enough talent to be successful.  And then to see they draft JJAW who sucks and they could have had Metcalf.  They draft Reagor who is ok, and could have had Jefferson.  I could see Carson struggling this year (lots of it his own fault) and defending himself thinking I don't have the weapons, my O line is hurt all the time, and then add on that they drafted a QB in the 2nd to replace me instead of get me a talented weapon to help me.

He could have and should have handled things better.  I like how Aaron Rodgers just got pissed off that they drafted a QB but said you know what, I'm the starter this is my team and watch me go out and perform.  

valid points..but then the question becomes...why did Foles succeed when Carson went down? Why did Hurts seem to be more efficient at running the offense, despite his rookie mistakes, which we all expected at some point, it was inevitable...I fear that the reason may have been that despite the depleted team around, Carson still wanted to play "gunslinger" ball..where as Foles and Hurts were probably more in line with Doug's mantra of "take what they give you"...Not to mention Wentz's complete degradation of fundamentals...which I am convinced is a residual from his back surgery....having spinal fusion surgery results in loss of mobility and flexibility, by nature....It will probably be a couple of years before he gains most of that back...and It also explains why he sometimes looked like an 8 yr old girl trying to throw a swing pass....physically he is still recovering and will be for a while

[The Blackfish]

32 minutes ago, flyerdog said:

valid points..but then the question becomes...why did Foles succeed when Carson went down? Why did Hurts seem to be more efficient at running the offense, despite his rookie mistakes, which we all expected at some point, it was inevitable...I fear that the reason may have been that despite the depleted team around, Carson still wanted to play "gunslinger" ball..where as Foles and Hurts were probably more in line with Doug's mantra of "take what they give you"...Not to mention Wentz's complete degradation of fundamentals...which I am convinced is a residual from his back surgery....having spinal fusion surgery results in loss of mobility and flexibility, by nature....It will probably be a couple of years before he gains most of that back...and It also explains why he sometimes looked like an 8 yr old girl trying to throw a swing pass....physically he is still recovering and will be for a while

He had fractured a vertebrae which he also had in college but he didn’t have a fusion surgery. 

[SNOORDA]

4 hours ago, NOTW said:

 

This is such a dumb thing to criticize about.  Carson could have been thinking about what to do about jersey number, casually asked Pittman and when he didn't want to, he said ok no worries.  Pittman said from his own mouth he was respectful.  Seems like a non-story.  yet people are making it dramatic.

I agree.  But it is the 1st thing we heard about in regards to his new team.  And it’s also rare the for someone of wentzs pay. scale to be denied his number

[Bwestbrook36]

27 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

I agree.  But it is the 1st thing we heard about in regards to his new team.  And it’s also rare the for someone of wentzs pay. scale to be denied his number

It's one of the first things we worry about when we get new players what number are they gonna wear. We don't know what tone of the conversation or anything. He asked for his number the guy said no and wentz was fine going in another direction. Holy hell. He's gone and you guys still can't stop complaining about him. 

[SNOORDA]

11 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

It's one of the first things we worry about when we get new players what number are they gonna wear. We don't know what tone of the conversation or anything. He asked for his number the guy said no and wentz was fine going in another direction. Holy hell. He's gone and you guys still can't stop complaining about him. 

A I could give a flying f what he does in indy    It’s just an offseason talking point.  Not a complaint. 
 

he is gone.  Wait until he throws his 1st td and and how wentz supporters go nutz on this board about how he should still be here 

I would love to see all wentz discussion moved to atnfl which i rarely visit

[Bwestbrook36]

14 minutes ago, SNOORDA said:

A I could give a flying f what he does in indy    It’s just an offseason talking point.  Not a complaint. 
 

he is gone.  Wait until he throws his 1st td and and how wentz supporters go nutz on this board about how he should still be here 

I would love to see all wentz discussion moved to atnfl which i rarely visit

I'm with you there. I wanted Foles stuff put over there when he left here. Lol

[Talonblood]

Just came in to sweep up and turn out the lights. G'night, Carson. G'night TATERS. G'night, John boy.

[XoqTionR]

Very good comments about Carson and the division of fan base.

 

[YubaEagle]

15 hours ago, XoqTionR said:

Very good comments about Carson and the division of fan base.

 

thanks for that. I watched the full show, pretty good.

It was interesting to hear Avant's and Mikell's take on things, as insiders. Nothing earth-shattering but some good insights.

Basically, Carson is a good guy, but got his confidence shook. Give Hurts a chance to show what he has, and what he can be with good coaching. I didn't know about the spatial awareness test that Hurts took, that shows he is in rarified air, when it comes to innate ability to read the field. With good coaching and his mobility/ability to keep plays alive, that could turn into something special. I'm with both of them- draft BPA. DON'T PRESS ON A QB AT NUMBER 6.