Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[philafan4o8]

To make things worse, people forget that Howie wanted to trade up for Wentz because he didn't see the two future drafts having a better QB prospect than Wentz.

2017 Draft: Mahomes and Watson

*2018 Draft: Darnold, Allen and Lamar Jackson

 

*Not the greatest QB prospects in my opinion

[UK_EaglesFan89]

8 hours ago, philafan4o8 said:

2017 Draft: Mahomes and Watson

I remember wanting DeShaun so badly. God if only!

[DeathByEagle]

13 hours ago, philafan4o8 said:

To make things worse, people forget that Howie wanted to trade up for Wentz because he didn't see the two future drafts having a better QB prospect than Wentz.

2017 Draft: Mahomes and Watson

*2018 Draft: Darnold, Allen and Lamar Jackson

 

*Not the greatest QB prospects in my opinion

Not many predicted Mahomes success. Most were shocked when KC moved up and took him in the spot they did. Most thought KC was moving up for Watson. Lets not forget what Patrick has to work with. Its a much different team, scheme, and coaching in KC. You swap the QBs and I am betting most are calling for Mahomes head here in Philly. 

As for 2018, I still think that draft was not good for QBs. Jackson is nothing past a running QB. You think Carson's accuracy is bad. Darnold has done nothing, and Allen has been decent but nothing great. He has a very good defense and a good OC who has a more balanced scheme. Allen with Doug is a epic Fail. 

So the only one maybe having success here with Doug would be Watson. Only because he is good at scrambling out of the pocket and throwing on the run when his oline breaks down and running for his life. Carson is still my QB of choice. Under the right scheme and coaching, I still think he is our future. The key is getting Doug, his scheme and his coaching staff out of here as quick as possible before its too late for Wentz. Doug gone after this year and give Carson a year with a new OC and better scheme. If he is still horrible then you have a out in 2022. We can all see Doug has proven he cant scheme/game plan and has to go so better to do it now and at least give Carson a chance to prove himself before we move on from him. 

[GeorgeM37]

4 hours ago, DeathByEagle said:

Not many predicted Mahomes success. Most were shocked when KC moved up and took him in the spot they did. Most thought KC was moving up for Watson. Lets not forget what Patrick has to work with. Its a much different team, scheme, and coaching in KC. You swap the QBs and I am betting most are calling for Mahomes head here in Philly. 

As for 2018, I still think that draft was not good for QBs. Jackson is nothing past a running QB. You think Carson's accuracy is bad. Darnold has done nothing, and Allen has been decent but nothing great. He has a very good defense and a good OC who has a more balanced scheme. Allen with Doug is a epic Fail. 

So the only one maybe having success here with Doug would be Watson. Only because he is good at scrambling out of the pocket and throwing on the run when his oline breaks down and running for his life. Carson is still my QB of choice. Under the right scheme and coaching, I still think he is our future. The key is getting Doug, his scheme and his coaching staff out of here as quick as possible before its too late for Wentz. Doug gone after this year and give Carson a year with a new OC and better scheme. If he is still horrible then you have a out in 2022. We can all see Doug has proven he cant scheme/game plan and has to go so better to do it now and at least give Carson a chance to prove himself before we move on from him. 

You pointed all of that out and yet....every single one of those quarterbacks listed has better overall mechanics than wentz...it is year five....he has regressed steadily since his mvp-like season....of course, Doug is making it worse but in year five you are saying give him a chance to prove himself....in year five....

The word delusional comes to mind.....

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, GeorgeM37 said:

The word delusional comes to mind.....

You know I heard Michael Kist say on the latest Kist and Solak show that some fans almost think people exist within the organisation to provide an excuse for Wentz being bad. 

Some fans will just not accept that actually a lot of the offensive issues may be his fault. That isn't to dissolve everyone else of blame. That isn't to say others don't need to take a lot of the blame too. But I think we need to start recognising that maybe Wentz isn't that good. 

Let's just look at Cam Newton to see how a really highly rated QB can fall. Wentz wouldn't be the first, he won't be the last if he is in fact unable to turn things around. 

[Mortimer]

6 hours ago, DeathByEagle said:

Not many predicted Mahomes success. Most were shocked when KC moved up and took him in the spot they did. Most thought KC was moving up for Watson. Lets not forget what Patrick has to work with. Its a much different team, scheme, and coaching in KC. You swap the QBs and I am betting most are calling for Mahomes head here in Philly. 

As for 2018, I still think that draft was not good for QBs. Jackson is nothing past a running QB. You think Carson's accuracy is bad. Darnold has done nothing, and Allen has been decent but nothing great. He has a very good defense and a good OC who has a more balanced scheme. Allen with Doug is a epic Fail. 

So the only one maybe having success here with Doug would be Watson. Only because he is good at scrambling out of the pocket and throwing on the run when his oline breaks down and running for his life. Carson is still my QB of choice. Under the right scheme and coaching, I still think he is our future. The key is getting Doug, his scheme and his coaching staff out of here as quick as possible before its too late for Wentz. Doug gone after this year and give Carson a year with a new OC and better scheme. If he is still horrible then you have a out in 2022. We can all see Doug has proven he cant scheme/game plan and has to go so better to do it now and at least give Carson a chance to prove himself before we move on from him. 

 

[GeorgeM37]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

You know I heard Michael Kist say on the latest Kist and Solak show that some fans almost think people exist within the organisation to provide an excuse for Wentz being bad. 

Some fans will just not accept that actually a lot of the offensive issues may be his fault. That isn't to dissolve everyone else of blame. That isn't to say others don't need to take a lot of the blame too. But I think we need to start recognising that maybe Wentz isn't that good. 

Let's just look at Cam Newton to see how a really highly rated QB can fall. Wentz wouldn't be the first, he won't be the last if he is in fact unable to turn things around. 

At this point, I just dont see how any of his fans can in good conscience continue defending him....of course, like you said, its not all his fault....but alot of it is.....and he gets worse every week....

[UK_EaglesFan89]

31 minutes ago, GeorgeM37 said:

At this point, I just dont see how any of his fans can in good conscience continue defending him....of course, like you said, its not all his fault....but alot of it is.....and he gets worse every week....

I think at this particular time they are reasons or excuses that people can still make. Doug is an easy target and this offensive scheme. And the QB coach isn't the right guy. So I guess if those things change and Wentz still sucks that is when people may start to question him. 

[Mortimer]

10 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think at this particular time they are reasons or excuses that people can still make. Doug is an easy target and this offensive scheme. And the QB coach isn't the right guy. So I guess if those things change and Wentz still sucks that is when people may start to question him. 

For the die hard cult members, it will always be someone else's fault.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 minutes ago, Mortimer said:

For the die hard cult members, it will always be someone else's fault.

And hey maybe Wentz turns it around. He still can. 

[Mortimer]

2 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And hey maybe Wentz turns it around. He still can. 

Absolutely, but I think he need some humble pie and a fresh start on another team.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, Mortimer said:

Absolutely, but I think he need some humble pie and a fresh start on another team.

I think he needs humble pie yes. And yeah I do think its a real long shot that he turns it around. But he could and he will be given the opportunity to in Philly. 

[EagleJoe8]

31 minutes ago, Mortimer said:

Absolutely, but I think he need some humble pie and a fresh start on another team.

You're pretty much in the same place I am. Wentz needs a self check regardless, but I also don't think Wentz can be redeemed under this structure. He'll either need traded, or an entirely new structure, including replacing Howie and Doug needs to come in here.

[EazyEaglez]

20 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

You're pretty much in the same place I am. Wentz needs a self check regardless, but I also don't think Wentz can be redeemed under this structure. He'll either need traded, or an entirely new structure, including replacing Howie and Doug needs to come in here.

You know for as many times as Wentz has been injured and sitting on the sidelines you would think he would have learned the lessons everyone seems to think sitting him down would teach him now. He literally watched what it took from the quarterback position to win the super bowl. If he hasn’t figured it out by now then he’s not going to. 

[T-1000]

4 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

You know for as many times as Wentz has been injured and sitting on the sidelines you would think he would have learned the lessons everyone seems to think sitting him down would teach him now. He literally watched what it took from the quarterback position to win the super bowl. If he hasn’t figured it out by now then he’s not going to. 

Yep. Wentz is a prime example of an athlete with all of the tools in the world, but no tool box to put them in.

[NOTW]

6 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

You're pretty much in the same place I am. Wentz needs a self check regardless, but I also don't think Wentz can be redeemed under this structure. He'll either need traded, or an entirely new structure, including replacing Howie and Doug needs to come in here.

Agreed. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

7 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

You're pretty much in the same place I am. Wentz needs a self check regardless, but I also don't think Wentz can be redeemed under this structure. He'll either need traded, or an entirely new structure, including replacing Howie and Doug needs to come in here.

But I do think we have to accept the possibility that perhaps Wentz can't be fixed under any structure. That perhaps Wentz is the one who is making this offense look as bad as it is and making the play calling look so bad. 

[EazyEaglez]

6 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But I do think we have to accept the possibility that perhaps Wentz can't be fixed under any structure. That perhaps Wentz is the one who is making this offense look as bad as it is and making the play calling look so bad. 

Might be good for a change of scenery for both parties. 

[EagleJoe8]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

But I do think we have to accept the possibility that perhaps Wentz can't be fixed under any structure. That perhaps Wentz is the one who is making this offense look as bad as it is and making the play calling look so bad. 

It’s certainly possible. I’m just less inclined to believe that over other possibilities. I’ve seen Wentz play the game at a high level enough to know the ability is there. I’ll preface this by saying I’ve acknowledged Wentz has his own issues that are independent of anything else wrong with the team. That said, I think it would be ridiculous and show a complete lack of objectivity to argue that issues with the O-Line, skill set, and coaching structure plays no part whatsoever. I believe much of Wentz’s issues are mental. Dealing with seeing Foles do what he did two years in a row, and then the drafting of Hurts, plus going from the entire town referring to Philly as Wentzelvania, to much of it questioning if they kept the right QB, plays a part. To which I would say, "Suck it up dude. Time to put the big boy pants on and move on”. 
 

I do believe Wentz is fixable, but he has to at the very least, start by getting out of his own head. Second would be getting him in a new structure where he’s in a normal chain of command. If the reports are true that he can easily go above Doug, then he needs to be put back in a place where he is below the head coach, period. That’s the humble pie he needs. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

18 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

I’ve seen Wentz play the game at a high level enough to know the ability is there. I’ll preface this by saying I’ve acknowledged Wentz has his own issues that are independent of anything else wrong with the team

We've also seen Cam play at a very high level and in fact played a huge role in getting to the SB. And we've seen him fall off the wagon big time.

[EazyEaglez]

9 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

We've also seen Cam play at a very high level and in fact played a huge role in getting to the SB. And we've seen him fall off the wagon big time.

What is most troubling is you see a lot of young guys coming into the league right now also playing fairly well. It’s almost getting to the point where teams might stop paying these guys big money just cause they’re quarterbacks and only pay the truly special ones. Wentz struggles this year are just magnified more when you see quarterback that are considered lesser players than him and rookies outperform him and they’re going up against better football teams. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

29 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

What is most troubling is you see a lot of young guys coming into the league right now also playing fairly well. It’s almost getting to the point where teams might stop paying these guys big money just cause they’re quarterbacks and only pay the truly special ones. Wentz struggles this year are just magnified more when you see quarterback that are considered lesser players than him and rookies outperform him and they’re going up against better football teams. 

I sort of get what you mean there... I mean since we drafted Wentz let's think about some of the really good young QBs that have entered the league and done well. 

Jackson, Watson, Mahomes, Murray, Burrow, Dak, Allen, Mayfield (though iffy) and Herbert. And then let's see with guys like Tua and Hurts.

[EagleJoe8]

53 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

We've also seen Cam play at a very high level and in fact played a huge role in getting to the SB. And we've seen him fall off the wagon big time.

We did, though I don’t think the total situation there is really comparable to Wentz’s. 

[Bwestbrook36]

16 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

We did, though I don’t think the total situation there is really comparable to Wentz’s. 

Yes Cam was good for like 8 years straight before falling apart due to injuries limiting his biggest attribute and that was his running and bulldozing over defenders. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, EagleJoe8 said:

We did, though I don’t think the total situation there is really comparable to Wentz’s. 

 

1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Yes Cam was good for like 8 years straight before falling apart due to injuries limiting his biggest attribute and that was his running and bulldozing over defenders. 

So Carson doesn't even have as long a track record as Cam did. But he has suffered some major injuries...