EagleJoe8 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: So Carson doesn't even have as long a track record as Cam did. But he has suffered some major injuries... Wentz has also dealt with losing two beneficial coaches early in his development as well as the fall of not being as praised after the Super Bowl like he was early on. Cam IMO was always a great athlete but not a great passer. Wentz at least was a great passer in 2017 and seemed to be headed upwards when it all came crashing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeM37 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: We've also seen Cam play at a very high level and in fact played a huge role in getting to the SB. And we've seen him fall off the wagon big time. My mind is still boggled by seeing this from him.....I remember that year he went to the SB. He looked unstoppable from every aspect of the QB position to what we see in this current season. Honestly, that is a very sad sight to see right now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipples Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said: Yes Cam was good for like 8 years straight before falling apart due to injuries limiting his biggest attribute and that was his running and bulldozing over defenders. Ehhh, I guess, but to be honest I’ve always thought Cam was very overrated. Great athlete, sure, but he’s never been anything special at all as a passer. Hell, he’s only ever had a QB rating over 90 twice in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, nipples said: Ehhh, I guess, but to be honest I’ve always thought Cam was very overrated. Great athlete, sure, but he’s never been anything special at all as a passer. Hell, he’s only ever had a QB rating over 90 twice in his career. Well that's why I said his biggest attribute was his running. His passing has always been sheet. Now that his running is gone he is usless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said: Wentz has also dealt with losing two beneficial coaches early in his development as well as the fall of not being as praised after the Super Bowl like he was early on. Cam IMO was always a great athlete but not a great passer. Wentz at least was a great passer in 2017 and seemed to be headed upwards when it all came crashing down. All QBs and players have to deal with losing coaches though. That just feels like another excuse for Wentz. And hey i know that you are not one who makes excuses for Wentz but I'm just saying it's all about protecting him from any blame sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 25 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: All QBs and players have to deal with losing coaches though. That just feels like another excuse for Wentz. And hey i know that you are not one who makes excuses for Wentz but I'm just saying it's all about protecting him from any blame sometimes. No, you’re missing my point. I already said he had to suck it up and put his big boy pants on. I’m giving factors that contribute to what he’s dealing with. Some is beyond Wentz’s control and some he has to deal with. Not everything is an excuse. Sometimes there are valid reasons why someone is in the situation they’re in. Not everything is so black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said: No, you’re missing my point. I already said he had to suck it up and put his big boy pants on. I’m giving factors that contribute to what he’s dealing with. Some is beyond Wentz’s control and some he has to deal with. Not everything is an excuse. Sometimes there are valid reasons why someone is in the situation they’re in. Not everything is so black and white. No OK that's completely fair. I agree if those issues are what are causing this dramatic dip in form then he needs to pull it together and move past this. Otherwise he shouldn't even be in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad67 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 8 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: I sort of get what you mean there... I mean since we drafted Wentz let's think about some of the really good young QBs that have entered the league and done well. Jackson, Watson, Mahomes, Murray, Burrow, Dak, Allen, Mayfield (though iffy) and Herbert. And then let's see with guys like Tua and Hurts. I really don't think that any QB deserves big money unless he gets his team a ring within the first 5 years along with being a major contributor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Vlad67 said: I really don't think that any QB deserves big money unless he gets his team a ring within the first 5 years along with being a major contributor... I mean we can debate that sure... But the league places a large amount of importance at the position so therefore they pay big for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macgregor Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2017 left us with 2 blind options at QB. To start Foles meant unloading Wentz; and with the investment to get him, and the way he played in 2017 THAT wasn't going to happen. That's because no one expected Wentz to fold like he has. Wentz is not finished in no way. He can't be. He'll either get re-coached and re-invented and show improvement or, well, the Rams eventually got someone to trade them for Sam Bradford. But we have him for 3 years. Hopefully coaching can fix him. Playing him, with this coach, is doing him no good. The best we can do is not compound the problem by wasting the the opportunity for Jalen Hurts to do what Nick Foles did in a similar situation. And before Duce gets another offer, we can see if an exRB can call a more balanced attack than Pederson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglegenius Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Wentz has the talent of Ed Wood and the salary of Steven Spielberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleVA Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Louis Reddick mentioned working on Wentz's trajectory, it's not only his trajectory, it's also his velocity and placement, when a QB is a natural you don't need to work on these things. Bad #2 overall pick, always look for a natural at the position that can throw that ball accurately, the Eagles didn't do their due diligence on Wentz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaglegenius Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 They should tattoo "I need to be better" on Wentz's forehead. Backwards, so he can read it every time he looks in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-1000 Posted December 1, 2020 Author Share Posted December 1, 2020 26 minutes ago, EagleVA said: Louis Reddick mentioned working on Wentz's trajectory, it's not only his trajectory, it's also his velocity and placement, when a QB is a natural you don't need to work on these things. Bad #2 overall pick, always look for a natural at the position that can throw that ball accurately, the Eagles didn't do their due diligence on Wentz. Revisionist history. It wasn't an issue in 2017. His completion percentages in 2016-2019 were 62, 60, 70, and 64. He's an absolute mess right now and it's pretty obvious to anyone who knows the sport that he has the talent but is a mess between the ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 3 hours ago, T-1000 said: Revisionist history. It wasn't an issue in 2017. His completion percentages in 2016-2019 were 62, 60, 70, and 64. He's an absolute mess right now and it's pretty obvious to anyone who knows the sport that he has the talent but is a mess between the ears. I'm really reaching the point where I'm just not sure he's salvageable. I mean last night he may have been even worse than he was in the previous game. He's clueless out there. He has no idea what he's doing. It's sad to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoconoDon Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Here are the things I think are true: 1. Howie has given the coaches a bunch of scrubs on both sides of the ball and told them to go win with them. News flash: They can't, especially on offense. Howie is an abject failure as a talent evaluator and drafting GM, period. He should be fired tomorrow morning. 2. Too many cooks spoil the broth...fire the Council of Offense, they've done nothing meaningful. The attempts to scheme productivity have failed. 3. The coaches are scheming the best they can, but the shortfalls in player ability encourages desperate decisions, and they're making desperate decisions. This compounds the problems and creates a predictable and non-productive offense, especially in the passing game. Even if you polish it, you can't turn crap into diamonds. 4. Wentz is regressing and the fact that the WR's rarely get open, and the O-line can't protect him, leads him to make desperate decisions, which he is making by not going through his reads, or holding onto the ball waiting for something to break open, or throwing it too fast when he has time. He's a mess trying to compensate for everything else and he's making things worse. Sadly, he's not the caliber of QB who can make a bad bunch of players serviceable. He's good but not an all time great one. 5. If Carson had a great, proven QB coach, he might be OK to weather this storm, but he doesn't, because he and Press Taylor are, how did Doug describe it? Oh yeah, they're "learning together." That's a freaking travesty. Sounds like Press should be an intern to the real QB coach. Oh sorry, there is no real QB coach. That alone may ruin what's left of Carson Wentz. 6. Jalen Hurts would fail just as bad if not worse while surrounded by these guys, and that would be another travesty. There's no way he's ready, and there would be no help for him, just failure. Not much development happening then, that's for sure. 7. Surround Wentz with great talent, and give him a normal amount of processing time, and he will look good-to-great every week, but anything short of that, and it fails. 8. To do that would require having a great GM...sorry, none here. Maybe Jeffrey Lurie will go and get one. Until he does, nothing really changes. 9. I hate what Howie has done to this team, and I hate that Jeffrey Lurie has let him. One of them has the power to fix this properly. I'll be waiting for Jeffrey Lurie to do it. 10. I may be waiting forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYEagle Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 2 hours ago, PoconoDon said: Here are the things I think are true: 1. Howie has given the coaches a bunch of scrubs on both sides of the ball and told them to go win with them. News flash: They can't, especially on offense. Howie is an abject failure as a talent evaluator and drafting GM, period. He should be fired tomorrow morning. 2. Too many cooks spoil the broth...fire the Council of Offense, they've done nothing meaningful. The attempts to scheme productivity have failed. 3. The coaches are scheming the best they can, but the shortfalls in player ability encourages desperate decisions, and they're making desperate decisions. This compounds the problems and creates a predictable and non-productive offense, especially in the passing game. Even if you polish it, you can't turn crap into diamonds. 4. Wentz is regressing and the fact that the WR's rarely get open, and the O-line can't protect him, leads him to make desperate decisions, which he is making by not going through his reads, or holding onto the ball waiting for something to break open, or throwing it too fast when he has time. He's a mess trying to compensate for everything else and he's making things worse. Sadly, he's not the caliber of QB who can make a bad bunch of players serviceable. He's good but not an all time great one. 5. If Carson had a great, proven QB coach, he might be OK to weather this storm, but he doesn't, because he and Press Taylor are, how did Doug describe it? Oh yeah, they're "learning together." That's a freaking travesty. Sounds like Press should be an intern to the real QB coach. Oh sorry, there is no real QB coach. That alone may ruin what's left of Carson Wentz. 6. Jalen Hurts would fail just as bad if not worse while surrounded by these guys, and that would be another travesty. There's no way he's ready, and there would be no help for him, just failure. Not much development happening then, that's for sure. 7. Surround Wentz with great talent, and give him a normal amount of processing time, and he will look good-to-great every week, but anything short of that, and it fails. 8. To do that would require having a great GM...sorry, none here. Maybe Jeffrey Lurie will go and get one. Until he does, nothing really changes. 9. I hate what Howie has done to this team, and I hate that Jeffrey Lurie has let him. One of them has the power to fix this properly. I'll be waiting for Jeffrey Lurie to do it. 10. I may be waiting forever. Thank you...didn't feel like typing all this! Fact is that while Wentz is not short on blame, it is very hard to pass in this league with an offensive line that is a turnstyle while the WR's get ZERO separation.....and then add in horrible coaching/game plans....well honestly, 95% of the QB's out there would look like Wentz right now. Wentz does need to improve, but without an Oline, WR's and Coaches that can actually put together a creative game plan, it is going to be impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYEagle Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 and on the Goedert throw (underthrown).....I was first like what the F Wentz!! Then you look at a helmet driving into his chest as he's trying to throw and go....oh! It's very easy to point the finger at Wentz but we have seen him play elite/MVP level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manz2821 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 On 11/30/2020 at 3:18 AM, EazyEaglez said: What is most troubling is you see a lot of young guys coming into the league right now also playing fairly well. It’s almost getting to the point where teams might stop paying these guys big money just cause they’re quarterbacks and only pay the truly special ones. Wentz struggles this year are just magnified more when you see quarterback that are considered lesser players than him and rookies outperform him and they’re going up against better football teams. I think also that teams with the rookie QBs have been bad for a while and have drafted players higher up in the draft to help them. Do you think Burrow or Herbert would look good on this team. I dont think so. Its a shizshow caused by Howie, Doug and Wentz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, manz2821 said: I think also that teams with the rookie QBs have been bad for a while and have drafted players higher up in the draft to help them. Do you think Burrow or Herbert would look good on this team. I dont think so. Its a shizshow caused by Howie, Doug and Wentz. Yeah when Wentz has two guys wide open in the seams, but chooses to throw to a rookie in double coverage or when he misses Jeffrey actually get separation, never looks his way but rushes a dump off pass to the back I can’t really blame Howie for that. Well Howie did draft him so there’s that. Like 3/4 of the sacks Wentz has taken are 4 seconds or more. That tells me he’s not processing what he’s looking at. That interception in the end zone pretty much verifies that. How do you fix him when he repeatedly says he won’t change? For whatever the reason I don’t think Doug can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manz2821 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 15 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said: Yeah when Wentz has two guys wide open in the seams, but chooses to throw to a rookie in double coverage or when he misses Jeffrey actually get separation, never looks his way but rushes a dump off pass to the back I can’t really blame Howie for that. Well Howie did draft him so there’s that. Like 3/4 of the sacks Wentz has taken are 4 seconds or more. That tells me he’s not processing what he’s looking at. That interception in the end zone pretty much verifies that. How do you fix him when he repeatedly says he won’t change? For whatever the reason I don’t think Doug can. Agreed on that he needs to play better for sure. But another reason he taking 4 second plus sacks is that majority of the time i think there is no one to throw the ball too. Look im not absolving Wentz at all but there has to be something more to his regression. I cannot believe a guy has suddenly forgotten how to play qb and read the field in 8 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Just now, manz2821 said: Agreed on that he needs to play better for sure. But another reason he taking 4 second plus sacks is that majority of the time i think there is no one to throw the ball too. Look im not absolving Wentz at all but there has to be something more to his regression. I cannot believe a guy has suddenly forgotten how to play qb and read the field in 8 months. The interception play he had about three pass open type throws he could have made and frankly he missed them all. There were at least two throws and two missed opportunities where if he threw it right they are touchdowns. He NEVER plants and throws. Most of his passes are arm throws. That’s why he’s so inaccurate. His mechanics need to be fixed. His ability to understand what he’s seeing needs to be challenged. His mentality that he doesn’t need to change makes him look like a self centered fool. No I’m absolving Doug from any of that though. His 5th year starter shouldn’t be having such clear rookie issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Just now, EazyEaglez said: The interception play he had about three pass open type throws he could have made and frankly he missed them all. There were at least two throws and two missed opportunities where if he threw it right they are touchdowns. He NEVER plants and throws. Most of his passes are arm throws. That’s why he’s so inaccurate. His mechanics need to be fixed. His ability to understand what he’s seeing needs to be challenged. His mentality that he doesn’t need to change makes him look like a self centered fool. No I’m absolving Doug from any of that though. His 5th year starter shouldn’t be having such clear rookie issues. I don't think his mechanics can be fixed though. He's showing that he's too pig headed and stubborn to change. He thinks he just needs to clean a few things up and he'll be OK and that's complete rubbish. He's ignorant and perhaps arrogant. He thinks he knows best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleVA Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 8 hours ago, T-1000 said: Revisionist history. It wasn't an issue in 2017. His completion percentages in 2016-2019 were 62, 60, 70, and 64. He's an absolute mess right now and it's pretty obvious to anyone who knows the sport that he has the talent but is a mess between the ears. It's always been an issue, 75% of his completions are catchable but off target, rarely does he hit a receiver in stride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: I don't think his mechanics can be fixed though. He's showing that he's too pig headed and stubborn to change. He thinks he just needs to clean a few things up and he'll be OK and that's complete rubbish. He's ignorant and perhaps arrogant. He thinks he knows best. He’s been coddled for so long I don’t know if it can be helped. So many people keep telling him how great he is even when he stinks it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.