Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[EazyEaglez]

39 minutes ago, EagleVA said:

It's always been an issue, 75% of his completions catchable but off target, rarely does he hit a receiver in stride.

He’s always had bad mechanics. He just got away with it. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

23 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

He’s been coddled for so long I don’t know if it can be helped. So many people keep telling him how great he is even when he stinks it up. 

We say it all the time. The kid gloves need to come off now. 

[xBMTx]

 

[Ace Nova]

I guess I'll put this here since they decided to lock the thread.  (Even though it's about the coaching staff putting a player in front of the rest of the team not just about Wentz).

 

I've been a 100% Doug Pederson supporter since day one but last night was infuriating to watch. 

The defense came out on fire, making crucial stop after crucial stop.  And what do they get in response from the offense?  Play after play of Wentz under throwing, over throwing, missing 5 yard tosses, not reading blitzes, holding on to the ball too long, etc etc etc.

Wentz has not been the same player since his concussion in the playoff game last year.  Whatever happened to him should be taken seriously because he is not seeing the field, his reactions and decision making are delayed and it's throwing the entire offense out of sync.

It's not right nor is it fair to the rest of the team when you put ONE PLAYER in front of 52+ other guys that are risking their necks out there on every play in order to win.  No other player in the history of the Eagles has been given a longer leash that Carson Wentz and it's at the expense of the rest of the team.  That's beyond reckless and needs to end.  

Any other QB in the NFL would have been told to sit back and take a few games off 6 games ago!  The fact that Wentz is still in, 11 games into the season and making the same mistakes over and over again speaks volumes that this coaching staff is putting his needs in front of the rest of the team's needs.  I'm sorry but that's not how the NFL works.

If Doug Pederson continues to put Wentz in front of the rest of the team, this could be his last season as head coach in Philadelphia.  Jeffery Lurie has always been a "team first" guy and I highly doubt  he's happy with the coaching staff putting Wentz in front of the rest of the team.

You just can't do that to the rest of your team.  

[Damanick10]

Wentz has been awful this year, and I am about done with him but honestly any QB would struggle with this cluster F of an offense. The O Line is in shambles, no talent on the outside, coaches are terrible who can't develop or scheme. Literally anything that could go wrong for an offense has happened. His confidence is completely shot, he probably expects to be hit on every single play. We need to surround him with better crap and reset next year with better schemes and maybe he can rebound. We have too much invested in him to just give it up now. he has shown that he is capable in the past, let's see if we can somehow bring back some of the magic with an actual competent offense.

[NOTW]

6 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

Here are the things I think are true:

1. Howie has given the coaches a bunch of scrubs on both sides of the ball and told them to go win with them. News flash: They can't, especially on offense. Howie is an abject failure as a talent evaluator and drafting GM, period. He should be fired tomorrow morning.

2. Too many cooks spoil the broth...fire the Council of Offense, they've done nothing meaningful. The attempts to scheme productivity have failed.

3. The coaches are scheming the best they can, but the shortfalls in player ability encourages desperate decisions, and they're making desperate decisions. This compounds the problems and creates a predictable and non-productive offense, especially in the passing game. Even if you polish it, you can't turn crap into diamonds.

4. Wentz is regressing and the fact that the WR's rarely get open, and the O-line can't protect him, leads him to make desperate decisions, which he is making by not going through his reads, or holding onto the ball waiting for something to break open, or throwing it too fast when he has time. He's a mess trying to compensate for everything else and he's making things worse. Sadly, he's not the caliber of QB who can make a bad bunch of players serviceable. He's good but not an all time great one.

5. If Carson had a great, proven QB coach, he might be OK to weather this storm, but he doesn't, because he and Press Taylor are, how did Doug describe it? Oh yeah, they're "learning together." That's a freaking travesty. Sounds like Press should be an intern to the real QB coach. Oh sorry, there is no real QB coach. That alone may ruin what's left of Carson Wentz. 

6. Jalen Hurts would fail just as bad if not worse while surrounded by these guys, and that would be another travesty. There's no way he's ready, and there would be no help for him, just failure. Not much development happening then, that's for sure.

7. Surround Wentz with great talent, and give him a normal amount of processing time, and he will look good-to-great every week, but anything short of that, and it fails.

8. To do that would require having a great GM...sorry, none here. Maybe Jeffrey Lurie will go and get one. Until he does, nothing really changes.

9. I hate what Howie has done to this team, and I hate that Jeffrey Lurie has let him. One of them has the power to fix this properly. I'll be waiting for Jeffrey Lurie to do it. 

10. I may be waiting forever.

 

The announcers at one point were making excuses for Wentz that he doesn't have talent around him.  Then at other times praising how good Goedert and Sanders are.  Fulgham had a great stretch of games and then disappeared (did defenses just start keying on him?).

I don't buy that the talent on offense is that much of an issue.  They do need upgrades.  But better coaching and QB play would make this work.  Goedert is a starting quality TE and had a good game last night.  Sanders is a dynamic running back (and they ran the ball only 9 times).  Boston Scott comes in and makes some plays as Sproles-light.  RichRod keeps making plays at TE.  Fulgham, Ward and Reagor should be suitable along with Goedert and Sanders to make plays.  

Granted, the WRs aren't great, and the O line has pieces injured.  Of course even Kelce who has been great has had several bad snaps this year.  Losing games and a team that isn't coached well causes things to crack even good players.

They have all these offensive coaches and seem like they don't know what they're doing.  There were several plays last night where they were confused pre-snap.  Had to call timeout because the play clock was running.  Too many times almost getting delay of game penalty.  At least a couple plays the announcers pointed out in replay that the players were not on the same page (a screen where the RB didn't go to the right spot e.g.)

The offense has talent, they are not coached well at all right now.  And Wentz is not being coached well or held accountable.  

Wentz is having his worst season.  The way you help a struggling QB who has injuries and inexperience on the O line is to run the ball and get your mobile and elusive QB rolling out to make plays.  Carson himself has said he's more comfortable doing that.  Doug won't do it.

 

[manz2821]

10 minutes ago, Damanick10 said:

Wentz has been awful this year, and I am about done with him but honestly any QB would struggle with this cluster F of an offense. The O Line is in shambles, no talent on the outside, coaches are terrible who can't develop or scheme. Literally anything that could go wrong for an offense has happened. His confidence is completely shot, he probably expects to be hit on every single play. We need to surround him with better crap and reset next year with better schemes and maybe he can rebound. We have too much invested in him to just give it up now. he has shown that he is capable in the past, let's see if we can somehow bring back some of the magic with an actual competent offense.

I think its fair to say that Doug minus Reich cannot coach him up. We are stuck with Wentz the best the organization can do is help him gain some of the playmaking ability back. I won't mind if we get rid of the entire offensive staff including Doug and start again. Get Wentz to be held accountable and light a fire under his a** for lack of a better analogy.

[NOTW]

It's interesting how the views on Wentz' performance change from week to week, and I think some of it are the announcers and people in the media who discuss it.

Even in last night's game early on the announcers were defending Wentz and blaming it on O line injuries and lack of talent - and posters here are parroting those comments.  And at one point they were destroying Howie for not building a good team through the draft, not drafting any Pro Bowlers, etc.

Then later, they were pointing out in replays all the horrible decisions by Wentz, missed throws, over throws, under throws...and at one point they put up the comparison graphic showing his record and stats in 2017 and then since then he's been average.  And they were also saying how great and dynamic Sanders and Goedert are and Wentz needs to do better to get the ball to his playmakers.  Which is it?

The TV analysts also play a role for ratings.  One guy always defends Wentz and the other always rips him.  Several of these shows do it.

[ManchesterEagle]

1 hour ago, NOTW said:

It's interesting how the views on Wentz' performance change from week to week, and I think some of it are the announcers and people in the media who discuss it.

Even in last night's game early on the announcers were defending Wentz and blaming it on O line injuries and lack of talent - and posters here are parroting those comments.  And at one point they were destroying Howie for not building a good team through the draft, not drafting any Pro Bowlers, etc.

Then later, they were pointing out in replays all the horrible decisions by Wentz, missed throws, over throws, under throws...and at one point they put up the comparison graphic showing his record and stats in 2017 and then since then he's been average.  And they were also saying how great and dynamic Sanders and Goedert are and Wentz needs to do better to get the ball to his playmakers.  Which is it?

The TV analysts also play a role for ratings.  One guy always defends Wentz and the other always rips him.  Several of these shows do it.

Agreed - they always have one on each side.

I thought some of the commentators had been reading this board at one point. 

The O-Line is poor and the receivers are sometimes struggling to get separation. But Wentz is also missing to many throws, holding the ball too long and not reading the D properly. He should absolutely be better than he is, regardless of the issues around him.

[GeorgeM37]

4 hours ago, NOTW said:

It's interesting how the views on Wentz' performance change from week to week, and I think some of it are the announcers and people in the media who discuss it.

Even in last night's game early on the announcers were defending Wentz and blaming it on O line injuries and lack of talent - and posters here are parroting those comments.  And at one point they were destroying Howie for not building a good team through the draft, not drafting any Pro Bowlers, etc.

Then later, they were pointing out in replays all the horrible decisions by Wentz, missed throws, over throws, under throws...and at one point they put up the comparison graphic showing his record and stats in 2017 and then since then he's been average.  And they were also saying how great and dynamic Sanders and Goedert are and Wentz needs to do better to get the ball to his playmakers.  Which is it?

The TV analysts also play a role for ratings.  One guy always defends Wentz and the other always rips him.  Several of these shows do it.

One of them even had the nerve to say that "there is nothing around wentz" so he gives them the best chance to win.....

As bad as he is playing.....seriously????

[Cochis_Calhoun]

7 hours ago, EagleVA said:

It's always been an issue, 75% of his completions are catchable but off target, rarely does he hit a receiver in stride.

This, a million times this, there was a Sanders drop Yesterday and you could see he was angry and he was gesturing it needed to be higher because the pass was thrown lower than made any sense, the pass to Jeffery on the first drive was rocketed  at shin height.

3 out of 4 passes behind the line are sailed so that even if they are caught its killed the receivers momentum because they've had to jump to make the catch.

The number of times the Tight Ends, have to climb a ladder to make a catch even sat in a soft spot in coverage. 

I've been banging this drum for a couple of years, the drop numbers look bad but there are a lot of catches that are way harder than they need to be because the pass is at the very limit of what constitutes accurate. 

[CaliEagle]

41 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

This, a million times this, there was a Sanders drop Yesterday and you could see he was angry and he was gesturing it needed to be higher because the pass was thrown lower than made any sense, the pass to Jeffery on the first drive was rocketed  at shin height.

3 out of 4 passes behind the line are sailed so that even if they are caught its killed the receivers momentum because they've had to jump to make the catch.

The number of times the Tight Ends, have to climb a ladder to make a catch even sat in a soft spot in coverage. 

I've been banging this drum for a couple of years, the drop numbers look bad but there are a lot of catches that are way harder than they need to be because the pass is at the very limit of what constitutes accurate. 

Yep. Carson is really fighting it with accuracy. He is overthinking throws and his mechanics are really bad at times. That first slant to Ward he threw sidearm and he didn't have to do that. His footwork is often bad. He doesn't always step into his throws.  His mechanics are far from consistent and until he addresses that, it won't change. They need to get an in your face QB coach. Press Taylor isn't going to challenge Wentz enough. It's clear by now.

[NOTW]

1 hour ago, GeorgeM37 said:

One of them even had the nerve to say that "there is nothing around wentz" so he gives them the best chance to win.....

As bad as he is playing.....seriously????

Yep, nothing around him...then a few series later talk about the "great" Goedert and how dynamic Sanders is, what a  great skill set Reagor has, etc.  

[roadagain65]

6 hours ago, NOTW said:

It's interesting how the views on Wentz' performance change from week to week, and I think some of it are the announcers and people in the media who discuss it.

Even in last night's game early on the announcers were defending Wentz and blaming it on O line injuries and lack of talent - and posters here are parroting those comments.  And at one point they were destroying Howie for not building a good team through the draft, not drafting any Pro Bowlers, etc.

Then later, they were pointing out in replays all the horrible decisions by Wentz, missed throws, over throws, under throws...and at one point they put up the comparison graphic showing his record and stats in 2017 and then since then he's been average.  And they were also saying how great and dynamic Sanders and Goedert are and Wentz needs to do better to get the ball to his playmakers.  Which is it?

The TV analysts also play a role for ratings.  One guy always defends Wentz and the other always rips him.  Several of these shows do it.

Yes, exactly, I was saying as much to myself during the game.

Reality is there is a bunch of issues plaguing the team, the worst of which IMO is of course Wentz but equally as bad is the play calling from Pederson. One pass play for Hurts, refusal to run the ball, refusal to get Wentz on the move. Why can a player like Reagor not get one inch of separation? Why is Fulgham on the sidelines for half the snaps while Jeffery wheels his tired old ass out there to do what??

The offence is a basket case & that starts & ends with Pederson.

 

[manz2821]

3 minutes ago, roadagain65 said:

Yes, exactly, I was saying as much to myself during the game.

Reality is there is a bunch of issues plaguing the team, the worst of which IMO is of course Wentz but equally as bad is the play calling from Pederson. One pass play for Hurts, refusal to run the ball, refusal to get Wentz on the move. Why can a player like Reagor not get one inch of separation? Why is Fulgham on the sidelines for half the snaps while Jeffery wheels his tired old ass out there to do what??

The offence is a basket case & that starts & ends with Pederson.

 

Agreed on this.  I mean we are in week 12 and the offence still has not been in sync.  I mean if you have Reagor not looking for a screen pass for a TD or the running back not being able to pick up the blitzer the players are not being coached correct?.  The covid reason should be out of the window by now.  The offence at all levels just sucks.  Doug and Howie are solely responsible for it.

[NOTW]

The team has 3 main problems and almost all of them contribute to Wentz playing poorly in addition to his own play.

1. Howie - bad drafting, bad contracts to aging/injured players, roster with not enough talent.
2. Doug - in over his head after Reich left, the OCBC (Off Coor by Committee) approach isn't working.  There is no accountability, no benching, no changes he just wants to keep "working hard" but not make any changes and that includes the frustrations with Schwartz and his defensive scheme
3. Injuries and conditioning - this has been 3 years in a row now, not just this year.  And they hired new medical and conditioning staff from teams that excelled in those areas and even won league awards.  Nothing has changed here, in fact you could argue it's worse.

So Wentz has young or 2nd rate talent to throw to, he has coaches that don't know what they're doing and let him play hero ball with no accountability, and he has guys injured all the time where his O line are half backups and receivers that sometimes he doesn't even know their name and he has to make plays.  

We did see Wentz play well in the past.  Wentz either needs a new team, or the team needs to address problems 1-3 above and see if a new GM and coach can make this work.

[manz2821]

Slept over it  and might be in a minority but I and sill have hope for Wentz and think he can be salvaged with better pieces around him and better coaching.. Look at Bakers stats from last year.  Sacked 40 times threw 21 picks.  This year so far sacked only 17 times and playing much better and the team is 8-3.  What does he have?  Oh yes  2 stud RB's. decent OLine, and some weapons on the outside even without OBJ..  Wentz can do the same next year.... I'm still holding on to hope provided they get a new scheme a coaching staff and hopefully players like Reagor can turn a leaf.

[T-1000]

18 minutes ago, manz2821 said:

Slept over it  and might be in a minority but I and sill have hope for Wentz and think he can be salvaged with better pieces around him and better coaching.. Look at Bakers stats from last year.  Sacked 40 times threw 21 picks.  This year so far sacked only 17 times and playing much better and the team is 8-3.  What does he have?  Oh yes  2 stud RB's. decent OLine, and some weapons on the outside even without OBJ..  Wentz can do the same next year.... I'm still holding on to hope provided they get a new scheme a coaching staff and hopefully players like Reagor can turn a leaf.

Baker is a game manager and middle of the road starting QB at best in this league. Has the bar gotten that low that hoping Wentz can be him is acceptable. The guy is a 100 plus million dollar QB, the low expectations and excuses need to stop.

[T-1000]

9 hours ago, EagleVA said:

It's always been an issue, 75% of his completions are catchable but off target, rarely does he hit a receiver in stride.

The numbers and track record pre-2020 say otherwise. Not everyone is going to be Drew Brees level accurate.

[manz2821]

3 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

Baker is a game manager and middle of the road starting QB at best in this league. Has the bar gotten that low that hoping Wentz can be him is acceptable. The guy is a 100 plus million dollar QB, the low expectations and excuses need to stop.

Well since we are probably stuck with him for a couple of years ill take a middle of the road game manager as compared to the worst qb we have in the league right now. 

[DawkinsOwnage03]

10 hours ago, xBMTx said:

 

There’s a wentzscuse for that 

[EagleMatt]

 

[AzBirdGang]

Doug should be fired. That one play call was ridiculous. 

[EazyEaglez]

10 hours ago, NOTW said:

The announcers at one point were making excuses for Wentz that he doesn't have talent around him.  Then at other times praising how good Goedert and Sanders are.  Fulgham had a great stretch of games and then disappeared (did defenses just start keying on him?).

I don't buy that the talent on offense is that much of an issue.  They do need upgrades.  But better coaching and QB play would make this work.  Goedert is a starting quality TE and had a good game last night.  Sanders is a dynamic running back (and they ran the ball only 9 times).  Boston Scott comes in and makes some plays as Sproles-light.  RichRod keeps making plays at TE.  Fulgham, Ward and Reagor should be suitable along with Goedert and Sanders to make plays.  

Granted, the WRs aren't great, and the O line has pieces injured.  Of course even Kelce who has been great has had several bad snaps this year.  Losing games and a team that isn't coached well causes things to crack even good players.

They have all these offensive coaches and seem like they don't know what they're doing.  There were several plays last night where they were confused pre-snap.  Had to call timeout because the play clock was running.  Too many times almost getting delay of game penalty.  At least a couple plays the announcers pointed out in replay that the players were not on the same page (a screen where the RB didn't go to the right spot e.g.)

The offense has talent, they are not coached well at all right now.  And Wentz is not being coached well or held accountable.  

Wentz is having his worst season.  The way you help a struggling QB who has injuries and inexperience on the O line is to run the ball and get your mobile and elusive QB rolling out to make plays.  Carson himself has said he's more comfortable doing that.  Doug won't do it.

 

I keep asking the question, but Press Taylor is the passing game coordinator, the QB coach, and Carson’s Buddy so why isn’t he implementing more rollout plays into the offense? It just seems like there are several opportunities to scheme more roll out plays into this offense. It makes no sense at all.

[EazyEaglez]

42 minutes ago, EagleMatt said:

 

That’s just inexcusable and all these Wentz apologists need to shut up about "talent around him, play calling, and offensive line play” and simply watch Wentz suck here. There is no excuse for this.