October 25, 20213 yr Just now, we_gotta_believe said: Not sure if this was sarcasm, but we already have that, it's what our property taxes are based on. I'm talking about from a capital gains perspective, not the already infuriating property taxes we pay - also assessments aren't yearly.
October 25, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, vikas83 said: I can't imagine taxing unrealized capital gains will stand up in court. But it is truly idiotic nonetheless. I am trying to figure out the details of this proposal... I don't see where realized vs. unrealized gains is delineated in the Constitution. Legally I think it can hold up. However, if unrealized capital gains are reported and taxed annually; it only makes sense that unrealized losses must count as well. Things could get really messy. Realistically, I am having a hard time making sense of it.
October 25, 20213 yr Just now, binkybink77 said: I'm talking about from a capital gains perspective, not the already infuriating property taxes we pay - also assessments aren't yearly. By we, I meant my state, in Michigan. We already have annual assessments.
October 25, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, vikas83 said: They have answers for none of this, obviously. Gov't doesn't bother balancing its books so they are looking for an easy target to steal money from.
October 25, 20213 yr PA has weird assessments. Newer homes are assessed at more recent/new values, older homes tend not to be on any real schedule. So older homes tend to pay much less in property taxes compared to any new buildings. There is incentive for those in older homes - which always constitutes the majority of people because not THAT many new homes are being built (especially because of NIMBYism) - to NOT have values re-assessed. So ... they just aren't.
October 25, 20213 yr 29 minutes ago, binkybink77 said: So if you pay a tax on unrealized gains, do you get a credit for unrealized losses? No of course not. And what about real estate? Are we going to start doing yearly assessments of property values and tax that too? Where I live, assessments are done every 4 years. But they are phased-in annually for property tax purposes.
October 25, 20213 yr 4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: By we, I meant my state, in Michigan. We already have annual assessments. Right, but I think Binky's point was that the increase in value of your home isn't treated as income. The value of the asset increases, so your property tax is higher in the new year. But this would be akin to taxing the increase in value of the home at the capital gains rate.
October 25, 20213 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: Right, but I think Binky's point was that the increase in value of your home isn't treated as income. The value of the asset increases, so your property tax is higher in the new year. But this would be akin to taxing the increase in value of the home at the capital gains rate. Yeah I was just pointing out that MI already has annual reassessments. Looks like Philly does too... https://www.altusgroup.com/services/en-us/insights/philadelphia-real-property-annual-assessment/
October 25, 20213 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: Right, but I think Binky's point was that the increase in value of your home isn't treated as income. The value of the asset increases, so your property tax is higher in the new year. But this would be akin to taxing the increase in value of the home at the capital gains rate. Exactly - it would be a slippery slope in my opinion especially if it were to trickle down to the middle class who wouldn't have access to funds to pay taxes on assets that aren't liquid.
October 25, 20213 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: Right, but I think Binky's point was that the increase in value of your home isn't treated as income. The value of the asset increases, so your property tax is higher in the new year. But this would be akin to taxing the increase in value of the home at the capital gains rate. yup. this opens up a lot of potentials for both abuse and economic damage. how do you tax an asset that is 1. illiquid and 2. has not had its value realized yet? at any moment the 'stock price' of an equity is more or less an approximation of the value based on the current bid price and recent sales. the stock price might be $100 but if you can find somebody to pay $150 it's worth more, if you can't find anyone to pay $100 it's worth less.
October 25, 20213 yr 9 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: yup. this opens up a lot of potentials for both abuse and economic damage. how do you tax an asset that is 1. illiquid and 2. has not had its value realized yet? at any moment the 'stock price' of an equity is more or less an approximation of the value based on the current bid price and recent sales. the stock price might be $100 but if you can find somebody to pay $150 it's worth more, if you can't find anyone to pay $100 it's worth less. You're also going to cause massive selling pressure in the market at year end to (i) drive down values for the year end mark and (ii) raise money to actually pay the taxes (might happen again going into 4/15). But beyond all the unintended consequences, just think about it -- it's INSANE. You are taxing someone on a paper gain where they haven't actually realized the profit yet. Let's say you own a stock that goes from $20 to $40. Government taxes you on that $20 profit this year. The next year, the company goes bankrupt and the stock is worthless. So now you lost $40 and get what -- a taxable loss in the future? Do you get a refund? So if the stock market goes down, the government will owe billions in refunds due to the carryback of losses?? Yeah...that seems like a smart way to do a budget. Right when the market is dropping, likely due to economic strain, the government will owe billions in refunds.
October 25, 20213 yr 11 minutes ago, vikas83 said: You're also going to cause massive selling pressure in the market at year end to (i) drive down values for the year end mark and (ii) raise money to actually pay the taxes (might happen again going into 4/15). But beyond all the unintended consequences, just think about it -- it's INSANE. You are taxing someone on a paper gain where they haven't actually realized the profit yet. Let's say you own a stock that goes from $20 to $40. Government taxes you on that $20 profit this year. The next year, the company goes bankrupt and the stock is worthless. So now you lost $40 and get what -- a taxable loss in the future? Do you get a refund? So if the stock market goes down, the government will owe billions in refunds due to the carryback of losses?? Yeah...that seems like a smart way to do a budget. Right when the market is dropping, likely due to economic strain, the government will owe billions in refunds. Exactly. It's too stupid to even wrap my head around.
October 25, 20213 yr Taxing unrealized gains is literally taxing the stock market. Really, it is going to suppress stock values. So can you pay your taxes in stock? It just seems like a really silly proposal.
October 25, 20213 yr 2 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: Not sure if this was sarcasm, but we already have that, it's what our property taxes are based on. Apples and oranges. Property taxes are ad valorem taxes assessed at the state and local level. Capital gains are a form of income and subject to U.S. income taxes. There's nothing to indicate that if the feds were enact an unrealized capital gains tax (essentially a modified poll tax limited to holders of property) that the state and local authorities would reduce or eliminate property taxes.
October 25, 20213 yr 32 minutes ago, Procus said: Apples and oranges. Property taxes are ad valorem taxes assessed at the state and local level. Capital gains are a form of income and subject to U.S. income taxes. There's nothing to indicate that if the feds were enact an unrealized capital gains tax (essentially a modified poll tax limited to holders of property) that the state and local authorities would reduce or eliminate property taxes. Again, when I said "we already have that" I was referring to annual assessments.
October 26, 20213 yr 33 minutes ago, Procus said: Trumpbots 3 years from now… The election had to be rigged! We had all those Brandon songs on Spotify!
October 26, 20213 yr This is how you ACTUALLY stand up to China: https://thehill.com/policy/international/578455-us-puts-support-behind-taiwans-inclusion-in-un-system
October 27, 20213 yr Author Quote Mitch McConnell rips the Biden child tax credit as a 'monthly welfare deposit' https://www.facebook.com/businessinsider/posts/10159063828334071?comment_id=10159064231129071&reply_comment_id=10159065519324071¬if_id=1635337664678514¬if_t=comment_mention&ref=notif I mean, immigrant race-baiting BS aside, he's not wrong. I'll ask again: Where's my monthly tax credit for not having kids and not being a drain on the system? I'm not really a fan of this child tax credit. I don't mind public assistance to those who truly need it in difficult times, but at the very least, this should be temporary. Stop telling me about how it "lifts kids out of poverty." What a disingenuous statement. It's just a band-aid on a much bigger problem.
October 27, 20213 yr 8 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said: I mean, immigrant race-baiting BS aside, he's not wrong. I'll ask again: Where's my monthly tax credit for not having kids and not being a drain on the system? I'm not really a fan of this child tax credit. I don't mind public assistance to those who truly need it in difficult times, but at the very least, this should be temporary. Stop telling me about how it "lifts kids out of poverty." What a disingenuous statement. It's just a band-aid on a much bigger problem. It’s just money up-front that parents normally get in their tax return.
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