3 minutes ago, Traveler Vic said:

I hold Siri a lot more accountable for the Dallas loss than Hurts. That said, it was a crap show all around. With Dickerson looking like a major draft miss. Only Gainwell keeps reassuring me that we have had some good picks in this draft.

It doesn't matter what Siri calls in the passing game, Hurts has limitations that result in failed plays. Taking the ball out of his hands by running it doesn't fix him. It hides him. I know it's early but I've seen enough, because I've seen it before. I am convinced that he is a QB2 in the NFL. He's OK, but not an elite QB that takes over games from the pocket and puts the SB realistically within reach every year he plays. There are a few QB's like that in the NFL. It's just that Hurts isn't one of them.

15 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And I'm not going to argue that with you bud. I really like Hurts but I am biased as I just really like the guy, his attitude and the way he handles himself. But i can see his flaws and those are absolutely concerns if he can't correct them. And chances are he isn't going to be able to correct them. 

I like Hurts the person and competitor, too.  Hurts the QB is a completely different story.   I just have to believe that the Eagles weren't prepared to Wentz to force his way out or they would have had a better option in the wings.  The one good thing Howie has done through all of this is acquire draft capital and is getting the cap pain over with.  At least, we have some options going forward, although this QB class isn't very attractive.  

Sirianni is to blame for this loss.......when you have a young QB and good RBs and a good run blocking line, he should have started pounding the ball more......2 carries for Sanders?  WTF?

Boston Scott is missing in action, jordan howard is on the PS........Hurts shouldn't be passing more than 20-25 times a game.

This is doug pedersen sh--, pass, pass, pass.......For crying out loud, run the f------ ball. 

When Sirianni was hired, all I heard is that he will run the ball alot more.....well, that's horsesh---.  The run has and always will set up the passing game....especially with a young QB. 

1 minute ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

He is who he was in college.  Hoping that the NFL will break/train/develop/scheme all of his issues away is crazy.

Accuracy usually does not get better. People will probably point to Josh Allen but that is  rare. Once in awhile they will have an outlier game but it always falls back to their averages. We have had plenty of inaccurate QBs of our own over the years for proof. 

You combine already bad accuracy with a dead arm and late on throws and Hurts almost has a an impossible battle. The only reason he ended up with a 64% completion last night was because of the gimmes at the end of the game. I think at one point he was below 50%! That is putrid. 

Sure siri did him no favors but my god this is a passing league a half decent QB can get 60% in their sleep. 

I don't think they will give him a whole season to clean all that up. 

7 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

He is who he was in college.  Hoping that the NFL will break/train/develop/scheme all of his issues away is crazy.

No, It's not crazy.....it's happened dozens of times before.   To think these kids can come in and perform at a high level is unreasonable, even though that happens occasionally.

To think that young QBs can't develop in the NFL is ridiculous.  Most of them fail because they're thrown into situations they're not ready for....game plans are not designed for their development, but for their athletic ability.....Young QBs make mistakes........it's a fine line......but Sirianni isn't running the ball enough, there isn't enough motion, there isn't enough misdirection....he's piling it all on Hurts' arm and that is risky.

2 carries for Sanders?  1 for Gainwell?  Boston Scott and Jordan Howard are MIA.....The NFL is truly become a passing league but the passing game was and always will be set up by the run game....and Sirianni is failing on that count....

9 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I just have to believe that the Eagles weren't prepared to Wentz to force his way out or they would have had a better option in the wings

There's no way they thought he'd do that. But why would they? They just gave him a huge new deal and wanted him to be the long term guy. There's no way they would have thought he'd try and force his way out. He threw his toys out the pram because he got benched for being one of the worst QBs in the NFL last year. But I don't think they could have had a better option in the wings? The NFL doesn't work like that unless a guy is coming close to retirement. 

16 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Accuracy usually does not get better. People will probably point to Josh Allen but that is  rare. Once in awhile they will have an outlier game but it always falls back to their averages. We have had plenty of inaccurate QBs of our own over the years for proof. 

You combine already bad accuracy with a dead arm and late on throws and Hurts almost has a an impossible battle. The only reason he ended up with a 64% completion last night was because of the gimmes at the end of the game. I think at one point he was below 50%! That is putrid. 

Sure siri did him no favors but my god this is a passing league a half decent QB can get 60% in their sleep. 

I don't think they will give him a whole season to clean all that up. 

I don't think he can clean the issues up over a decade of training.  Hurts is being forced by the Eagles and other teams to overcome his shortcomings as a QB every week/quarter/series/play.  I like the kid and his spirit, but this isn't going to work out...unless our real goal is a top 5 pick to draft his replacement.

2 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

No, It's not crazy.....it's happened dozens of times before.   To think these kids can come in and perform at a high level is unreasonable, even though that happens occasionally.

To think that young QBs can't develop in the NFL is ridiculous.  Most of them fail because they're thrown into situations they're not ready for....game plans are not designed for their development, but for their athletic ability.....Young QBs make mistakes........it's a fine line......but Sirianni isn't running the ball enough, there isn't enough motion, there isn't enough misdirection....he's piling it all on Hurts' arm and that is risky.

2 carries for Sanders?  1 for Gainwell?  Boston Scott and Jordan Howard are MIA.....The NFL is truly become a passing league but the passing game was and always will be set up by the run game....and Sirianni is failing on that count....

Siri didn't help him, for sure, and shares a huge chunk of the responsibility for last night.  However, that doesn't change the fact that when Hurts could have executed in the passing game, he did not.  It will take a miracle to create something to take him out of being a bottom 5 QB.

3 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I don't think he can clean the issues up over a decade of training.  Hurts is being forced by the Eagles and other teams to overcome his shortcomings as a QB every week/quarter/series/play.  I like the kid and his spirit, but this isn't going to work out...unless our real goal is a top 5 pick.

Meh I really dont buy the good kid crap and he didn't show that at times last night. He was bishing at Smith after he fell down. 

That throw was behind and diggs read it the whole effing way. Smith falling didn't change the out come.of that throw. 

Some of the throws looked lazy. . He didn't wake up until he got to play back yard football. In garbage time

7 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Accuracy usually does not get better. People will probably point to Josh Allen but that is  rare. Once in awhile they will have an outlier game but it always falls back to their averages. We have had plenty of inaccurate QBs of our own over the years for proof. 

You combine already bad accuracy with a dead arm and late on throws and Hurts almost has a an impossible battle. The only reason he ended up with a 64% completion last night was because of the gimmes at the end of the game. I think at one point he was below 50%! That is putrid. 

Sure siri did him no favors but my god this is a passing league a half decent QB can get 60% in their sleep. 

I don't think they will give him a whole season to clean all that up. 

Accuracy absolutely can get better......but it can be a long process with a number of factors playing into it.  Most QBs in the NFL don't get the needed time to develop unless they are very high draft picks.  Even then, they're thrown into lousy situation and expected to "save the franchise".  Take a look at Matt Stafford's development with a terrible franchise.  And that's only one example.

It takes time, patience, coaching and "coachability"......for a young QB to become highly effective and efficient....unfortunately, the NFL teams don't have the patience for that and are always looking for lightning in a bottle.   And fans like the ones in philly make determinations on a young QB after 6-7 games......

1 minute ago, birdman#12 said:

Accuracy absolutely can get better......but it can be a long process with a number of factors playing into it.  Most QBs in the NFL don't get the needed time to develop unless they are very high draft picks.  Even then, they're thrown into lousy situation and expected to "save the franchise".  Take a look at Matt Stafford's development with a terrible franchise.  And that's only one example.

It takes time, patience, coaching and "coachability"......for a young QB to become highly effective and efficient....unfortunately, the NFL teams don't have the patience for that and are always looking for lightning in a bottle.   And fans like the ones in philly make determinations on a young QB after 6-7 games......

I know and you have always been very good at diagnosing these things. Unfortunately this league isn't waiting for these guys anymore. It's perform or they will get someone who can . 

It sucks but, this is how it is now. Once in awhile a QB might get the benefit of learning and being brought up properly. 

If it's not the QB being replaced after a year it's the coach. 

Just now, Bwestbrook36 said:

Meh I really dont buy the good kid crap and he didn't show that at times last night. He was bishing at Smith after he fell down. 

That throw was behind and diggs read it the whole effing way. Smith falling didn't change the out come.of that throw. 

Some of the throws looked lazy. . He didn't wake up until he got to play back yard football. In garbage time

That's the point I just made to someone else.  We can blame Siri, but when Hurts could execute and make a difference, he didn't.  The majority of his passes were late, short, and/or off target all night and that is on him.  

And I agree with the attitude last night and we will see more of that.  Teams are going to keep taking away his game piece-by-piece, until his is an inefficient, in-the-pocket QB.  That's the blueprint...make him be a QB.  LOL!

2 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Siri didn't help him, for sure, and shares a huge chunk of the responsibility for last night.  However, that doesn't change the fact that when Hurts could have executed in the passing game, he did not.  It will take a miracle to create something to take him out of being a bottom 5 QB.

No question that Hurts played poorly.......the underthrows are costing the team and that pick 6 was a pick 6 even if smith hadn't fallen down.....terrible throws.  But to think that Hurts can't learn from those is shortsighted.  Hurts has the arm strength and is clearly trying too much to "finess" the long balls.....he needs to unload them, and overthrow is way more acceptable than and underthrow and pickoff.

And don't underestimate his familiarity with these WRs......he clearly hasn't adjusted to how much speed is there.....

Just now, birdman#12 said:

No question that Hurts played poorly.......the underthrows are costing the team and that pick 6 was a pick 6 even if smith hadn't fallen down.....terrible throws.  But to think that Hurts can't learn from those is shortsighted.  Hurts has the arm strength and is clearly trying too much to "finess" the long balls.....he needs to unload them, and overthrow is way more acceptable than and underthrow and pickoff.

And don't underestimate his familiarity with these WRs......he clearly hasn't adjusted to how much speed is there.....

I don't completely disagree with you.  I am just sure that other coaching staffs have tried to clean this stuff up and had no success.  Now, in the NFL, you can't create a broken play, wide open, no one plays defense style that suits him.  Can he get better?  Sure.  Will it be enough to make a difference?  Pesonally, I doubt it.

4 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I know and you have always been very good at diagnosing these things. Unfortunately this league isn't waiting for these guys anymore. It's perform or they will get someone who can . 

It sucks but, this is how it is now. Once in awhile a QB might get the benefit of learning and being brought up properly. 

If it's not the QB being replaced after a year it's the coach. 

Absolutely true......coaching staffs are on a revolving door and teams are always in a win now mode.  It's the way the NFL is now.  

2 minutes ago, birdman#12 said:

Absolutely true......coaching staffs are on a revolving door and teams are always in a win now mode.  It's the way the NFL is now.  

I believe Hurts is on his 6th offensive coordinator in his college and NFL career. That's not helping anything either. 

17 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

There's no way they thought he'd do that. But why would they? They just gave him a huge new deal and wanted him to be the long term guy. There's no way they would have thought he'd try and force his way out. He threw his toys out the pram because he got benched for being one of the worst QBs in the NFL last year. But I don't think they could have had a better option in the wings? The NFL doesn't work like that unless a guy is coming close to retirement. 

I have seen enough of the NFL to know that they most certainly could have had a better option than a backup with "one read and run" tendencies that can't play the position in a standard way.  Depending on that type of player wasn't gong to work if Wentz went down for one game or a whole season (or ultimately leaving) That decision has death spiraled on them.

2 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I don't completely disagree with you.  I am just sure that other coaching staffs have tried to clean this stuff up and had no success.  Now, in the NFL, you can't create a broken play, wide open, no one plays defense style that suits him.  Can he get better?  Sure.  Will it be enough to make a difference?  Pesonally, I doubt it.

I think the bigger question is whether he'll get enough time to do it.......I think he's on a one year "try out".....if the eagles brass isn't convinced then they'll pursue the next "savior".

Hurts is going to have to flash big things this year.......have some big comebacks, overcoming bad plays with great stretches.

From what I'm seeing, his flaws are fixable......with help from the game planning and play calling too.  If he's expected to win games just with his arm, the eagles are going to have to be very patient with mistakes.  39 passes last night was a product of poor play calling.....and putting too much on Hurts.

4 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

I believe Hurts is on his 6th offensive coordinator in his college and NFL career. That's not helping anything either. 

And if you look at the many 1st round QB failures, you'll see something similar.  Personally, if I drafted a 1st round QB, he would sit most of the year......even if the team and starting QB were struggling.......Hell, Mahommes sat his first year. Rodgers for 4 years. Brady and Brees for 1 year.

The NFL has changed quite a bit over the years, but developing into an effective QB hasn't......the fundamentals, the intelligence and passing ability are still paramount for a winning QB.

1 minute ago, birdman#12 said:

And if you look at the many 1st round QB failures, you'll see something similar.  Personally, if I drafted a 1st round QB, he would sit most of the year......even if the team and starting QB were struggling.......Hell, Mahommes sat his first year. Rodgers for 4 years. Brady and Brees for 1 year.

The NFL has changed quite a bit over the years, but developing into an effective QB hasn't......the fundamentals, the intelligence and passing ability are still paramount for a winning QB.

Well to be fair Brady was most likely not drafted to ever see the field or at the very least a back up... 

Calling all Hurts Huggers, someone needs to sweep this place up before you all leave and pretend you weren't Hurts Huggers

7 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

326 passing yards.

Many equate passing yards with good QB. 

Garbage time yards.  Will research that as soon as I get to work.

1 hour ago, PoconoDon said:

A mobile QB is a guy who wins from the pocket and can run a little too. 

A running QB is a RB who can throw a little.

Hurts is the latter, period.

He's a QB2 and the Eagles should've seen it in try outs and game film before the draft. They didn't because they can't judge college talent.

This.  100% this.

Hurts is a running QB.

Wilson is a mobile QB.

They are not the same.

7 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

326 passing yards.

Many equate passing yards with good QB. 

But, you're not trying to claim because he got 326 yards in a blowout loss when DAL's defense was giving up everything that he was a good QB last night, right?

19 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Garbage time yards.  Will research that as soon as I get to work.

I'm almost positive at one point he was under 50% completion