1 minute ago, time2rock said:

Wasn’t Brees leading the Saints when Hurts made his first career start in 2020?

It was Hill. 

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

It was Hill. 

Yeah I didn’t want to be lazy and looked it up and saw that and then deleted my post.  

1 minute ago, time2rock said:

Yeah I didn’t want to be lazy and looked it up and saw that and then deleted my post.  

It really doesn't matter. QBs don't play each other and our defense had been allowing QBs to thrive (as did Hill against us). I'm pretty sure Hurts faced a much better defense that game. That doesn't fit the narrative, though --- so let's compare what he does against the other team's offense. 

18 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

It really doesn't matter. QBs don't play each other and our defense had been allowing QBs to thrive (as did Hill against us). I'm pretty sure Hurts faced a much better defense that game. That doesn't fit the narrative, though --- so let's compare what he does against the other team's offense. 

Agreed.  And what Hurts did in 4 starts in 2020 is completely meaningless.  That was nothing more than a taste of the NFL.  Last year was really his rookie year.  Can only hope he makes a huge jump from "year 1” to "year 2”.  For the record I am not fully expecting it but am also not discounting the possibility he can.  I remain cautiously optimistic.  

15 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Agreed.  And what Hurts did in 4 starts in 2020 is completely meaningless.  That was nothing more than a taste of the NFL.  Last year was really his rookie year.  Can only hope he makes a huge jump from "year 1” to "year 2”.  For the record I am not fully expecting it but am also not discounting the possibility he can.  I remain cautiously optimistic.  

I see a lot of people saying that, and I disagree.  Hurts was on the roster for the entire year in 2020.  Many a QB does not get playing time in their first year.  There's a lot to digest as far as getting routine established, learning the pro game, etc.  Patrick Mahomes didn't play a lot in his first year, Dante Culpepper carried a clipboard his first year.  Donovan McNabb only saw a few games his first year.  All of these players played well their second years, and nobody was calling them "rookies"

3 hours ago, Procus said:

I see a lot of people saying that, and I disagree.  Hurts was on the roster for the entire year in 2020.  Many a QB does not get playing time in their first year.  There's a lot to digest as far as getting routine established, learning the pro game, etc.  Patrick Mahomes didn't play a lot in his first year, Dante Culpepper carried a clipboard his first year.  Donovan McNabb only saw a few games his first year.  All of these players played well their second years, and nobody was calling them "rookies"

The reason why I said those 4 games were mostly meaningless is because, unlike those other guys you listed, the entire coaching staff was swept out as he entered year 2.  

Let's hope we see a big jump in his play this year.  Would be a nice surprise.

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

It really doesn't matter. QBs don't play each other and our defense had been allowing QBs to thrive (as did Hill against us). I'm pretty sure Hurts faced a much better defense that game. That doesn't fit the narrative, though --- so let's compare what he does against the other team's offense. 

 

5 hours ago, time2rock said:

Agreed.  And what Hurts did in 4 starts in 2020 is completely meaningless.  That was nothing more than a taste of the NFL.  Last year was really his rookie year.  Can only hope he makes a huge jump from "year 1” to "year 2”.  For the record I am not fully expecting it but am also not discounting the possibility he can.  I remain cautiously optimistic.  

Honestly, the way the Hurts haters seize upon a stat without putting it in context.

Gannon has not shown he can beat a good QB yet. This should be a Gannon/Eagles D thread. 
 

 Hurts was last year a average to below average starting QB. He was not going to win games where Gannon allows 80 per cent completion rates and teams to control the ball and score pretty much every time. Netherless, Hurts got the Eagles back level against Herbert and within 6 points of Brady. But the D couldn’t get a stop again either time to give him a chance to win the game.

 

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Honestly, the way the Hurts haters seize upon a stat without putting it in context.

Gannon has not shown he can beat a good QB yet. This should be a Gannon/Eagles D thread. 
 

 Hurts was last year a average to below average starting QB. He was not going to win games where Gannon allows 80 per cent completion rates and teams to control the ball and score pretty much every time. Netherless, Hurts got the Eagles back level against Herbert and within 6 points of Brady. But the D couldn’t get a stop again either time to give him a chance to win the game.

I'm not saying the defense played well, because in large they werent good against top competition either. Having said that, in those two games Hurts was 23/43 for 277 yards with 2 TDs and 1 pick throwing the ball.

No matter what way you slice it, he did just as much damage to prevent them from winning as the defense did. His running certainly can be an asset, but that's no where near good enough passing. If the running gets taken away, he hasn't shown the ability to overcome that (as we've seen). 

You and I disagree with him overall, but I know that we both feel he needs to show he can throw the ball better. If not, we move on. Him getting another year to show that he can, given the position of the team, isn't the end of the world. 

We are all (well, most of us) hoping he makes giant strides and makes some of those "not in his camp" look bad. 

53 minutes ago, Swoop said:

 

I'm not saying the defense played well, because in large they werent good against top competition either. Having said that, in those two games Hurts was 23/43 for 277 yards with 2 TDs and 1 pick throwing the ball.

No matter what way you slice it, he did just as much damage to prevent them from winning as the defense did. His running certainly can be an asset, but that's no where near good enough passing. If the running gets taken away, he hasn't shown the ability to overcome that (as we've seen). 

You and I disagree with him overall, but I know that we both feel he needs to show he can throw the ball better. If not, we move on. Him getting another year to show that he can, given the position of the team, isn't the end of the world. 

We are all (well, most of us) hoping he makes giant strides and makes some of those "not in his camp" look bad. 

I mostly agree with you. I would just say in the Chargers game, Hurts didn’t do a lot wrong on running or passing. In fact his QBR was 90 for that game. I get that he didn’t pass much though.

He had a better statistical game against KC, but couldn’t get that close as Mahomes lit us up. 

The Eagles weren’t good enough against good teams last year. Hurts was part of that, but I just think the "Hurts can’t beat a good to mediocre QB” narrative is misleading. If the D improves this year, I’m sure he will beat a couple of good QBs. That won’t mean he is the guy.

I agree, he needs to take a fair step forward with his passing. AJ Brown will help, but won’t in himself be enough. I’m rooting for him, but honestly don’t know if he can get to the necessary level 
 

 

5 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

The Eagles weren’t good enough against good teams last year. Hurts was part of that, but I just think the "Hurts can’t beat a good to mediocre QB” narrative is misleading. If the D improves this year, I’m sure he will beat a couple of good QBs. That won’t mean he is the guy.

And I know he does need to win some of those duels with better QBs but ultimately it is the defense that needs to step up against those better QBs.

12 hours ago, brkmsn said:

It really doesn't matter. QBs don't play each other and our defense had been allowing QBs to thrive (as did Hill against us). I'm pretty sure Hurts faced a much better defense that game. That doesn't fit the narrative, though --- so let's compare what he does against the other team's offense. 

But it does.  Keep making excuses.

 

7 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I mostly agree with you. I would just say in the Chargers game, Hurts didn’t do a lot wrong on running or passing. In fact his QBR was 90 for that game. I get that he didn’t pass much though.

He had a better statistical game against KC, but couldn’t get that close as Mahomes lit us up. 

The Eagles weren’t good enough against good teams last year. Hurts was part of that, but I just think the "Hurts can’t beat a good to mediocre QB” narrative is misleading. If the D improves this year, I’m sure he will beat a couple of good QBs. That won’t mean he is the guy.

I agree, he needs to take a fair step forward with his passing. AJ Brown will help, but won’t in himself be enough. I’m rooting for him, but honestly don’t know if he can get to the necessary level 
 

 

You 2 can't help yourselves lmao

4 hours ago, eagle45 said:

But it does.  Keep making excuses.

 

It doesn't. In 1985, the best passer in the NFL (Dan Marino) couldn't beat a garbage QB in the conference championship because his team had a terrible defense. It wasn't because Tony Eason was so great. The Patriots had a defense that ranked near the top in every category and the Dolphins had one that was near the bottom. Eason only threw 12 passes (3TDs) and they controlled the clock with the run. Miami's defense made zero plays while the Patriots' D had many. 

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

It doesn't. In 1985, the best passer in the NFL (Dan Marino) couldn't beat a garbage QB in the conference championship because his team had a terrible defense. It wasn't because Tony Eason was so great. The Patriots had a defense that ranked near the top in every category and the Dolphins had one that was near the bottom. Eason only threw 12 passes (3TDs) and they controlled the clock with the run. Miami's defense made zero plays while the Patriots' D had many. 

So because Marino lost to a garbage QB in the playoffs 40 years ago, the fact that the Eagles face a deficit at the QB position in comparison to the other sideline EVERY Sunday is irrelevant?  OK.

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

 the fact that the Eagles face a deficit at the QB position in comparison to the other sideline EVERY Sunday is irrelevant?  OK.

Those are your words and I don't agree with them. 

20 hours ago, brkmsn said:

It really doesn't matter. QBs don't play each other and our defense had been allowing QBs to thrive (as did Hill against us). I'm pretty sure Hurts faced a much better defense that game. That doesn't fit the narrative, though --- so let's compare what he does against the other team's offense. 

This is such a lazy argument.

12 minutes ago, Swoop said:

This is such a lazy argument.

Yeah, if we're talking about the Madden MCS tournament. But in real football there are 21 other grown men out there doing a job. 

3 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Yeah, if we're talking about the Madden MCS tournament. But in real football there are 21 other grown men out there doing a job. 

So you're in the belief that a better QB doesn't drastically change how a game goes the vast majority of the time?

3 minutes ago, Swoop said:

So you're in the belief that a better QB doesn't drastically change how a game goes the vast majority of the time?

It's always advantageous to have better players at every position, but in the end of the day, having the better "team" is more important than having star players. 

26 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Those are your words and I don't agree with them. 

List the times the Eagles did not face a deficit at the QB position, head to head, based on the in-game performance of both QBs, for each start of Hurts' career.

 

2020: Vs. Saints.  Outplayed someone who isn't even a QB.

2021: 

Vs. Falcons.  Outplayed Matt Ryan.

Vs. Panthers.  Outplayed Sam Darnold.

Vs. Lions.  Outplayed Goff.  Sort of.  Maybe.  He completed 9 passes and threw for less than half as many yards with a lower QB rating.  But he won.  

Vs. Broncos.  Outplayed Bridgewater.

Vs. Saints.  Outplayed a practice squad QB.

Vs. WAS.  Outplayed a practice squad QB.

Vs. NYG.  Outplayed a practice squad QB.

Vs. WAS.  Outplayed a practice squad QB.

 

Ever since Jalen Hurts took the starting job, unless he has faced a practice squad QB or a bottom of the barrel QB whose team is actively looking to move on, he has been outplayed head to head.

22 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

List the times the Eagles did not face a deficit at the QB position, head to head, based on the in-game performance of both QBs, for each start of Hurts' career.

 

So you're going to continue to blame our QB for our defense's play vs other QBs? Imagine how good Hurts or Wentz would have been against some of our own defenses the last couple years. 

Just now, brkmsn said:

So you're going to continue to blame our QB for our defense's play vs other QBs? Imagine how good Hurts or Wentz would have been against some of our own defenses the last couple years. 

As I posted above, unless playing a practice squad or bottom of the barrel qb, Hurts has been outplayed head to head.

You can argue it's irrelevant or argue that it will change because he's "young, improving, and a leader," but you can't argue the fact.

19 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Ever since Jalen Hurts took the starting job, unless he has faced a practice squad QB or a bottom of the barrel QB whose team is actively looking to move on, he has been outplayed head to head.

Guess who else was outplayed by virtually everybody  last year ... Trevor Lawrence. Does that mean Lawrence has no future?