Eagles Hire Jonathan Gannon as DC (Colts DB coach)

[manz2821]

I dont know if its him, the players or the scheme.  I mean remember when Castillo got fired and Bowles was hired the interim DC, the D got even worse.  We know Bowles is a pretty decent D coordinator.  Not defending Gannon as the D sucks but I think its a combination.  I mean the D line is supposed to be the strength of the team and they get zero pressure game after game.  

[LacesOut]

1 hour ago, nipples said:

Hard to make a play when they’re forced into a conservative scheme. 

True. But, they can still deflect passes, knock balls down at the LOS, strip a WR or a RB. Those types of plays can and should happen from a Defense, regardless of scheme, IMO.

[EazyEaglez]

3 hours ago, manz2821 said:

I dont know if its him, the players or the scheme.  I mean remember when Castillo got fired and Bowles was hired the interim DC, the D got even worse.  We know Bowles is a pretty decent D coordinator.  Not defending Gannon as the D sucks but I think its a combination.  I mean the D line is supposed to be the strength of the team and they get zero pressure game after game.  

It is possible the players just aren’t talented enough. TJ Edwards is basically the Singleton of this season. He’s not overall very talented, but he looks good compared to what was out there before. How much influence did Gannon really have in building this defense? They gave him two castoff Vikings players they basically got out of the scrap heap, but the Eagles were extremely cap strapped so they couldn’t really upgrade that much. Next season they will have a ton of draft capital (as long as they don’t waste it by chasing after an old quarterback) and cap space (as long as they don’t waste it by going after an older quarterback) that could help them improve this defense. Then we could see how much of it was Gannon and how much is it the roster. 

[ManchesterEagle]

5 hours ago, manz2821 said:

I dont know if its him, the players or the scheme.  I mean remember when Castillo got fired and Bowles was hired the interim DC, the D got even worse.  We know Bowles is a pretty decent D coordinator.  Not defending Gannon as the D sucks but I think its a combination.  I mean the D line is supposed to be the strength of the team and they get zero pressure game after game.  

 

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

It is possible the players just aren’t talented enough. TJ Edwards is basically the Singleton of this season. He’s not overall very talented, but he looks good compared to what was out there before. How much influence did Gannon really have in building this defense? They gave him two castoff Vikings players they basically got out of the scrap heap, but the Eagles were extremely cap strapped so they couldn’t really upgrade that much. Next season they will have a ton of draft capital (as long as they don’t waste it by chasing after an old quarterback) and cap space (as long as they don’t waste it by going after an older quarterback) that could help them improve this defense. Then we could see how much of it was Gannon and how much is it the roster. 

I think it's definitely a combination, but I look at what Schwartz had to work with the last 2/3 years and in reality Schwartz was probably worse off (Yes BG is a big loss this year, but Gannon has a healthy Hargrave, Milton Williams and a better secondary). Schwartz up to the last 4/5 games of last year held the D together pretty well. (Still remember him holding Brees to 20 points with genuine scrubs at corner in the Divisional game in 2018).

It's just the slow bleeding against good QBs which gets me. There is no challenge and they are just picking apart the soft zones and making easy completions. Keeps the ball away from Hurts and the O as well.

[EazyEaglez]

5 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

I think it's definitely a combination, but I look at what Schwartz had to work with the last 2/3 years and in reality Schwartz was probably worse off (Yes BG is a big loss this year, but Gannon has a healthy Hargrave, Milton Williams and a better secondary). Schwartz up to the last 4/5 games of last year held the D together pretty well. (Still remember him holding Brees to 20 points with genuine scrubs at corner in the Divisional game in 2018).

It's just the slow bleeding against good QBs which gets me. There is no challenge and they are just picking apart the soft zones and making easy completions. Keeps the ball away from Hurts and the O as well.

Schwartz also had Brandon Graham and a very good Fletcher Cox. I don’t think Cox is the player he used to be and Schwartz basically had Barnett and Sweat as rotational guys off the bench, while Gannon has them as starters. He’s getting basically nothing from Kerrigan and Milton Williams is a rookie. I do think it’s a mix, because despite all of this Gannon’s defense should be more advanced than the offense, because the defense has more veterans than the offense. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

34 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I do think it’s a mix, because despite all of this Gannon’s defense should be more advanced than the offense, because the defense has more veterans than the offense. 

For me it is just the fact that he's doing the same crap every single week. He's not mixing it up, he's not changing things. Sirianni was slated for not changing things and then he did. Gannon is not changing, he's putting the same crap scheme out there every week. He doesn't have it. 

[ManchesterEagle]

48 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Schwartz also had Brandon Graham and a very good Fletcher Cox. I don’t think Cox is the player he used to be and Schwartz basically had Barnett and Sweat as rotational guys off the bench, while Gannon has them as starters. He’s getting basically nothing from Kerrigan and Milton Williams is a rookie. I do think it’s a mix, because despite all of this Gannon’s defense should be more advanced than the offense, because the defense has more veterans than the offense. 

 

12 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

For me it is just the fact that he's doing the same crap every single week. He's not mixing it up, he's not changing things. Sirianni was slated for not changing things and then he did. Gannon is not changing, he's putting the same crap scheme out there every week. He doesn't have it. 

I did mention BG to be fair and Cox was declining with Schwartz as well. But yeah I hear you about Kerrigan etc.

But it's still the death by a thousand cuts and seemingly no adjustment against any half decent QB. 

[EagleVA]

6 hours ago, manz2821 said:

I dont know if its him, the players or the scheme.  I mean remember when Castillo got fired and Bowles was hired the interim DC, the D got even worse.  We know Bowles is a pretty decent D coordinator.  Not defending Gannon as the D sucks but I think its a combination.  I mean the D line is supposed to be the strength of the team and they get zero pressure game after game.  

They should have unloaded Cox, he isn't worth a damn and we need all the picks we can get.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

But it's still the death by a thousand cuts and seemingly no adjustment against any half decent QB. 

His scheme is dependent on a below average QB.

[EazyEaglez]

24 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

I did mention BG to be fair and Cox was declining with Schwartz as well. But yeah I hear you about Kerrigan etc.

But it's still the death by a thousand cuts and seemingly no adjustment against any half decent QB. 

I feel like they tried stuff (they blitzed, changed linebackers, were better against the run) but it really didn’t have the overall effect. Watching those Chargers receivers just made our d-backs look like kids out there. Seriously go look at the size of some of those guys compared to our defensive backs. Heck compare them to our receivers. It’s almost unfair. 

[T-1000]

Blaming the players only goes so far. He runs the same vanilla, passive defense every week and expects different results apparently. The way they sat back and basically gave the Chargers their choice of one short to medium length play at a time to kick a field goal and win the game was embarrassing. He also doesn't use the talent he has properly. See Cox, Fletcher and Sweat, Josh.

[time2rock]

13 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I feel like they tried stuff (they blitzed, changed linebackers, were better against the run) but it really didn’t have the overall effect. Watching those Chargers receivers just made our d-backs look like kids out there. Seriously go look at the size of some of those guys compared to our defensive backs. Heck compare them to our receivers. It’s almost unfair. 

Couple of comments.

There was ZERO pass rush … Gannon needs to figure out how to adjust when the DL isn’t getting home and get creative with blitz packages to put some heat on the QB.

Nelson has pretty much been invisible.  He really isn’t much better than what we’ve been trotting out there the past few years.  

Gannon likes to have his CBs play "off” coverage.  It drives me nuts.  He is so worried about plays going over their heads he allows offenses easy completions that may net only 5-6 yards per clip but that keeps the sticks moving and the opposing offense on the field.  

[EazyEaglez]

3 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Couple of comments.

There was ZERO pass rush … Gannon needs to figure out how to adjust when the DL isn’t getting home and get creative with blitz packages to put some heat on the QB.

Nelson has pretty much been invisible.  He really isn’t much better than what we’ve been trotting out there the past few years.  

Gannon likes to have his CBs play "off” coverage.  It drives me nuts.  He is so worried about plays going over their heads he allows offenses easy completions that may net only 5-6 yards per clip but that keeps the sticks moving and the opposing offense on the field.  

The money is in the line and they aren’t really producing Sweat just got a new contract, but he hasn’t really been the pass rush guy they expected him to be so far. Barnett in a contract year has more negative plays than positive ones. Is Fletcher a Cox on this team anymore? Even Hargreave who started the season white hot has cooled down a lot. The defensive line has been overrated and the linebackers aren’t good. No one gets turnovers really and the safeties are average at best. Remember when T.O. Used to shout "Who can make a play?” Well who on this defense can we say can absolutely be counted on to make a play right now? I’m not trying to absolve Gannon from his part here. His defense should be better than this considering all the veterans in the group, but this defense lacks playmakers.

[flyerdog]

50 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Couple of comments.

There was ZERO pass rush … Gannon needs to figure out how to adjust when the DL isn’t getting home and get creative with blitz packages to put some heat on the QB.

Nelson has pretty much been invisible.  He really isn’t much better than what we’ve been trotting out there the past few years.  

Gannon likes to have his CBs play "off” coverage.  It drives me nuts.  He is so worried about plays going over their heads he allows offenses easy completions that may net only 5-6 yards per clip but that keeps the sticks moving and the opposing offense on the field.  

if you look back at history, the best defenses always had one premium player at each layer: 

DL: Hugh Douglas/Burgess/Cole/Kearse
LB: Trotter/DeMeco Ryans
DB: Dawkins/Vincent/Sheldon Brown/Asante Samuel

and of course you had Jim Johnson, mastermind, running things....our last best LB was Ryans, our last best DB was Malcom Jenkins...and our last best DC was Jim Johnson...(Although Todd Bowles was NOT given a fair shot) and that is sad....

[brkmsn]

17 minutes ago, flyerdog said:

....our last best LB was Ryans

Hicks was pretty good when healthy. Bradham gave us a couple good seasons. 

[MIRV Griffen]

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Hicks was pretty good when healthy. Bradham gave us a couple good seasons. 

Bradham was downright nasty for a bit.  Really effective when he was at his peak here.

[PoconoDon]

Gannon seems so scared of the big play that he calls a lot of softer coverages. He doesn't have the personnel to shut down opponents while in a softer coverage. His answer to that problem is more soft coverage and only rush 4. Attacking the QB would seem the better strategy, but he doesn't really have the personnel up front or at LB'er to do that well. He's stuck with a talent deficit and he's still scared of the big play. The expected results of that combo are exactly what we are seeing. 

I don't how good of a DC he will become, but at this point in his development, he needs a whole bunch of better players. Howie's on deck.

[brkmsn]

20 minutes ago, PoconoDon said:

Gannon seems so scared of the big play that he calls a lot of softer coverages. He doesn't have the personnel to shut down opponents while in a softer coverage. His answer to that problem is more soft coverage and only rush 4. Attacking the QB would seem the better strategy, but he doesn't really have the personnel up front or at LB'er to do that well. He's stuck with a talent deficit and he's still scared of the big play. The expected results of that combo are exactly what we are seeing. 

I don't how good of a DC he will become, but at this point in his development, he needs a whole bunch of better players. Howie's on deck.

I'd disagree with the bolded part. Last year, Singleton proved to be quite effective when blitzing. We're not really seeing this year's group get much of an opportunity, so it's hard to conclude that neither Taylor nor Edwards can do this well. We probably should try it first ...

[PoconoDon]

1 minute ago, brkmsn said:

I'd disagree with the bolded part. Last year, Singleton proved to be quite effective when blitzing. We're not really seeing this year's group get much of an opportunity, so it's hard to conclude that neither Taylor nor Edwards can do this well. We probably should try it first ...

Fair enough. That Gannon is scared to blitz them doesn't mean they can't do it. It may just mean he hates to blitz or that he doesn't think they can even if they can. Either way, I don't think we'll get the chance to find out. 

[ManchesterEagle]

18 hours ago, time2rock said:

Couple of comments.

There was ZERO pass rush … Gannon needs to figure out how to adjust when the DL isn’t getting home and get creative with blitz packages to put some heat on the QB.

Nelson has pretty much been invisible.  He really isn’t much better than what we’ve been trotting out there the past few years.  

Gannon likes to have his CBs play "off” coverage.  It drives me nuts.  He is so worried about plays going over their heads he allows offenses easy completions that may net only 5-6 yards per clip but that keeps the sticks moving and the opposing offense on the field.  

 

17 hours ago, flyerdog said:

if you look back at history, the best defenses always had one premium player at each layer: 

DL: Hugh Douglas/Burgess/Cole/Kearse
LB: Trotter/DeMeco Ryans
DB: Dawkins/Vincent/Sheldon Brown/Asante Samuel

and of course you had Jim Johnson, mastermind, running things....our last best LB was Ryans, our last best DB was Malcom Jenkins...and our last best DC was Jim Johnson...(Although Todd Bowles was NOT given a fair shot) and that is sad....

 

18 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

The money is in the line and they aren’t really producing Sweat just got a new contract, but he hasn’t really been the pass rush guy they expected him to be so far. Barnett in a contract year has more negative plays than positive ones. Is Fletcher a Cox on this team anymore? Even Hargreave who started the season white hot has cooled down a lot. The defensive line has been overrated and the linebackers aren’t good. No one gets turnovers really and the safeties are average at best. Remember when T.O. Used to shout "Who can make a play?” Well who on this defense can we say can absolutely be counted on to make a play right now? I’m not trying to absolve Gannon from his part here. His defense should be better than this considering all the veterans in the group, but this defense lacks playmakers.

 

4 hours ago, PoconoDon said:

Gannon seems so scared of the big play that he calls a lot of softer coverages. He doesn't have the personnel to shut down opponents while in a softer coverage. His answer to that problem is more soft coverage and only rush 4. Attacking the QB would seem the better strategy, but he doesn't really have the personnel up front or at LB'er to do that well. He's stuck with a talent deficit and he's still scared of the big play. The expected results of that combo are exactly what we are seeing. 

I don't how good of a DC he will become, but at this point in his development, he needs a whole bunch of better players. Howie's on deck.

re Schwartz - I've always said he was underrated here. The one time he had good talent (2017) he produced a top 5 D in both yards and points. Since then the Eagles have let players get older/leave and not replaced them through the draft. He still did a decent job in 2018/2019 and people were being unrealistic with their expectations with the talent he had and given the advantages that offenses get in this league now. It was time to part ways with Schwartz, as he was clearly running out of ideas and looking stressed last year, but like Reid I think he's a really good coach who the time was right to move on for. He's now got a senior role with the Titans and their D has been getting steadily better this year.

re talent - it's a huge issue. I think they overpaid for Sweat given he has only ever really done it as a situational rusher. Good player but probably not worth that contract. Cox has unfortunately been declining the last couple of years. Barnett, I used to defend, but he's making it near impossible this year. More dumb penalties than ever and little other impact. The Eagles really do need to focus those first rounders on the D and bring in a couple of decent free agents as well.

re Gannon - I do have some sympathy with him given the talent. He clearly needs good playmaking linebackers and we don't have them. It's interesting how he's been able to dominate against declining or not good QBs. 

But he really does need to challenge good QBs more. Sure they will score quickly on occasion, but that's preferable to them just controlling the ball and taking the easy underneath throws.

[Bwestbrook36]

2 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

 

 

re Schwartz - I've always said he was underrated here. The one time he had good talent (2017) he produced a top 5 D in both yards and points. Since then the Eagles have let players get older/leave and not replaced them through the draft. He still did a decent job in 2018/2019 and people were being unrealistic with their expectations with the talent he had and given the advantages that offenses get in this league now. It was time to part ways with Schwartz, as he was clearly running out of ideas and looking stressed last year, but like Reid I think he's a really good coach who the time was right to move on for. He's now got a senior role with the Titans and their D has been getting steadily better this year.

re talent - it's a huge issue. I think they overpaid for Sweat given he has only ever really done it as a situational rusher. Good player but probably not worth that contract. Cox has unfortunately been declining the last couple of years. Barnett, I used to defend, but he's making it near impossible this year. More dumb penalties than ever and little other impact. The Eagles really do need to focus those first rounders on the D and bring in a couple of decent free agents as well.

re Gannon - I do have some sympathy with him given the talent. He clearly needs good playmaking linebackers and we don't have them. It's interesting how he's been able to dominate against declining or not good QBs. 

But he really does need to challenge good QBs more. Sure they will score quickly on occasion, but that's preferable to them just controlling the ball and taking the easy underneath throws.

It doesn't matter who they bring in for D coordinator this fan base is unrealistic and irrational. They blow the hell up as soon as 1 touchdown is given up or a corner sucks because he gave up a catch. 

I didn't particularly care for Schwartz style but, I still knew he was getting a lot out of mediocre roster. Still people couldn't wait till he was gone. They got their wish now they can deal with it

The defense held the chargers to 7 points in the whole half where was the offense? Not building a lead that's for sure. The defense blew it in the second half but, making the offense the hero's of the whole game  is nonsense

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

It doesn't matter who they bring in for D coordinator this fan base is unrealistic and irrational. They blow the hell up as soon as 1 touchdown is given up or a corner sucks because he gave up a catch. 

I didn't particularly care for Schwartz style but, I still knew he was getting a lot out of mediocre roster. Still people couldn't wait till he was gone. They got their wish now they can deal with it

The defense held the chargers to 7 points in the whole half where was the offense? Not building a lead that's for sure. The defense blew it in the second half but, making the offense the hero's of the whole game  is nonsense

Kind of feels like the Eagles over the past three to four years doesn’t it though? The offense struggles, finally makes some plays and the defense gave it up and Schwartz would get killed for it. Honestly I didn’t find this game as frustrating as others around here. I didn’t think Gannon just sat back like he did in previous games. Maybe he didn’t blitz as much as some people thought, but he certainly blitzed. Did people miss the roughing the passer Nelson got on his corner blitz? For someone who has been as vanilla as Gannon has been that’s a rather gutsy call I think. They also did a much better job against the run then they did in past games too. Would’ve been nice to see the defense step up and make a stop. The thing is many of the guys on the roster were failing to make those stops even before Gannon too. I think the Eagles need more playmakers and stoppers on defense. These players have been getting passes. We blame the coaches for these corners playing so far back, but what if that’s the corners themselves? Even in this game with all the cushions Slay and Nelson both got picked on. 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

Gannon is in the same boat with Siri and Hurts.  It's going to be hard to make too many decisions without more time.  In he and Siri's case, that may be after another full off and regular season.  Once Howie and Lurie committed to them, they needed to commit to landing complementary players for the system to work.  In some ways, this defense reminds me of Billy Davis installing 4-3 players into a 3-4 and never thinking twice about modifying to the talent.  Painful stuff.

[EazyEaglez]

43 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Gannon is in the same boat with Siri and Hurts.  It's going to be hard to make too many decisions without more time.  In he and Siri's case, that may be after another full off and regular season.  Once Howie and Lurie committed to them, they needed to commit to landing complementary players for the system to work.  In some ways, this defense reminds me of Billy Davis installing 4-3 players into a 3-4 and never thinking twice about modifying to the talent.  Painful stuff.

Both Nelson and Slay got fairly low PFF grades with Slay in the 40s. Most of the defense received low scores. It’s hard to say how good or bad the coach is when the players aren’t performing very well. This team lacks playmakers especially on defense. 

[LacesOut]

Wasn't Gannon kinda the 'hot' name in the Off Season as a few teams were looking at him to be their DC?? 

Not sure of any point I am trying to make. 🤔