Ertz trade talk

[EagleTen]

1 minute ago, Portyansky said:

But teams also understand he wants a massive contract 

But that also might work in his, and any prospective new team's, favour...get him to play his final contract year, and if he plays well, he will get rewarded. Win/Win for Ertz and any new team (and possibly for the Eagles, maybe being able to get a 4th for him because of that)...

He's going to want to play lights out to get that new contract for 2022 and beyond...

 

[DeathByEagle]

Just now, Portyansky said:

But teams also understand he wants a massive contract 

Which is perfect. He gets to play his butt off to prove he deserves that contract. Also that contract wont come till the following year which will be a better year cap wise for teams. 

He may not get a ton in value back for the Eagles but they will get a trade partner to to get something out of him. Im still guessing in the 4th round range. Lets be honest, Zach has only had 1 bad year which was during a year the entire team played poor and he had a injury on top of that. He has value to teams. esp those few that are close to a SB team. 

Seahawks seam to be my top team for him. They like vet TEs and have not been afraid to trade for them. Wilson wants weapons and the team will do what they can to get him some this year. 

[dawkins4prez]

6 minutes ago, EagleTen said:

But that also might work in his, and any prospective new team's, favour...get him to play his final contract year, and if he plays well, he will get rewarded. Win/Win for Ertz and any new team (and possibly for the Eagles, maybe being able to get a 4th for him because of that)...

He's going to want to play lights out to get that new contract for 2022 and beyond...

 

Yeah its not like ertz is in bargaining position right now.  He's in a prove it year.

[dawkins4prez]

7 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Which is perfect. He gets to play his butt off to prove he deserves that contract. Also that contract wont come till the following year which will be a better year cap wise for teams. 

He may not get a ton in value back for the Eagles but they will get a trade partner to to get something out of him. Im still guessing in the 4th round range. Lets be honest, Zach has only had 1 bad year which was during a year the entire team played poor and he had a injury on top of that. He has value to teams. esp those few that are close to a SB team. 

Seahawks seam to be my top team for him. They like vet TEs and have not been afraid to trade for them. Wilson wants weapons and the team will do what they can to get him some this year. 

Yup.  a team looking for sensible priced weapons to put them over the top, Hawks, ravens, browns all come to mind.  A 5th is great value for Ertz.

[judunno]

On 2/20/2021 at 10:54 AM, dawkins4prez said:

Yup.  a team looking for sensible priced weapons to put them over the top, Hawks, ravens, browns all come to mind.  A 5th is great value for Ertz.

Ouch

[Cochis_Calhoun]

A trade if it happens will be a late rounder, a lot of potential trade partners are in the cap hell boat with us (although few are in quite as deep), there's even talk the Eagles may just cut him.

He isn't worth $8.5mill for what he put up last year, he was nowhere near the top guys at his position and Richard Rodgers put up more yards and a better catch percentage, heck he was outperformed by guys I'd have to look up to be absolutely sure who they played for. 

We can say it's a down year and it may be but he is 31 now and he has a lot of tread taken off the tires, he's been making catches a millisecond before a Linebacker hits the base of his spine for 9 years, how much does he have left in the tank? He isn't like Celek who was worth keeping around for his blocking, Ertz is a pass catcher first and foremost.

 

[weko]

Team trades a 5 for him.  He's in the last year of his contract and exerts maximum effort all year to get another.  Team can then re sign him after a good year or let him him walk and get a 5th or 6th round comp pick back.  It's a great deal for the trading team to get Ertz as a security blanket/move the chains guy for their QB for a year, then get a pick back.  

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

On 2/20/2021 at 10:54 AM, dawkins4prez said:

Yup.  a team looking for sensible priced weapons to put them over the top, Hawks, ravens, browns all come to mind.  A 5th is great value for Ertz.

I suspect that he's going to Indy.  Knows the offense.  Knows the system.  Knows the QB.  Tons of cap spacee and needs a TE to improve.

[Infam]

55 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I suspect that he's going to Indy.  Knows the offense.  Knows the system.  Knows the QB.  Tons of cap spacee and needs a TE to improve.

I think the Bengals might surprise us and offer a fourth or something. But hey, as long as we get the best pick possible I don't even care tbh.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

29 minutes ago, Infam said:

I think the Bengals might surprise us and offer a fourth or something. But hey, as long as we get the best pick possible I don't even care tbh.

We are going to be really bad this year, so get what we can for him, Cox, Graham, Johnson..  Go big or go home

[Cochis_Calhoun]

On 2/20/2021 at 3:26 PM, dawkins4prez said:

His current contract is also pretty favorable and that has value in an offseason with so many teams strapped against the cap.

His current contract is the 7th most expensive Tight End contract in the league and last year he ranked 31st in receiving yards and 23rd in yards per game despite ranking 7th in targets per game.  His contract is horrible.

[dawkins4prez]

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

His current contract is the 7th most expensive Tight End contract in the league and last year he ranked 31st in receiving yards and 23rd in yards per game despite ranking 7th in targets per game.  His contract is horrible.

yeah but how much does the new team have to pay?

[Random Reglar]

On 2/19/2021 at 4:08 PM, DeathByEagle said:

Teams mentioned last week were the Colts, Seahawks and now added today Chargers and Rams.

 

Not sure where people heard Bears from. 

Teams would offer a trade because they wont have to fight to sign him in FA. Doesnt mean they would give a lot but worth a late pick to not have to fight and drive up the price. 

Chargers - Zach Ertz for Easton Stick.   Shane had Easton Stick as QB  for 2 years.    Neither Siri or Shane have a QB on the roster they've ever coached before, they might want a QB on the roster who they know.  And he is on his rookie deal so he would be cheap.  The new coaches of the Chargers might not be interested in Chargers they haven't coached.  However, the new Chargers offensive coordinator was the Saints QB coach, and he worked with Taysom Hill,  and Easton Stick is similar to Taysom Hill and he might want to develop that.    So, it's not clear that he wouldn't want rb size and speed QB, Taysom, Easton and Jalen are all that. 

[Random Reglar]

16 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

We are going to be really bad this year, so get what we can for him, Cox, Graham, Johnson..  Go big or go home

If the Eagles build that run first offense with running QBs, the Eagles can win a bunch of games.  It's not clear how much the Eagles are going to rip apart their o and d lines which are getting old but are still good.  A lot of contracts will have to be renegotiated I'd think on those lines.  Malik Jackson is certain to go and provide cap savings.

Seems reasonable to get rid of the expensive WRs and TEs.  I'm hopeful that Khalil Tate and Tyree Jackson will be good enough to make the 53, and will continue to get better,and adding positional versatility, and there are a lot of Florida Gators at the WR and TE positions. 

They hired Brian Johnson,  he can assess the Florida Gators better than anybody, and he's the Eagles QB coach.  I would expect Gators drafted.  The QB and the top 3 pass catchers are all possibilities.    The massive DT, Slayton,  6'5 358, who was the #3 OG coming out of HS, who played RT in high school, and basketball (a number of videos are available of him playing RT and basketball in high school) is also interesting.   He could backup Fletcher Cox at DT - his primary job,  and he could be used on offense as a blocker.  oline?  TE?  other?  Short yardage, goal line,  that kind of thing.   

[Random Reglar]

On 2/19/2021 at 10:59 AM, vaeagle2 said:

i thought i read that his release or trade doesn't effect the eagles cap situation this season , just the fact we get a pick or nothing if released

I don't think it's that exactly.   It would effect the cap, but not effect the cap by 3/17.    That is,  the Eagles need to make a certain amount of moves to get under the cap by 3/17.  Moves involving Ertz wouldn't effect the cap by 3/17. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

5 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

If the Eagles build that run first offense with running QBs, the Eagles can win a bunch of games.  It's not clear how much the Eagles are going to rip apart their o and d lines which are getting old but are still good.  A lot of contracts will have to be renegotiated I'd think on those lines.  Malik Jackson is certain to go and provide cap savings.

Seems reasonable to get rid of the expensive WRs and TEs.  I'm hopeful that Khalil Tate and Tyree Jackson will be good enough to make the 53, and will continue to get better,and adding positional versatility, and there are a lot of Florida Gators at the WR and TE positions. 

They hired Brian Johnson,  he can assess the Florida Gators better than anybody, and he's the Eagles QB coach.  I would expect Gators drafted.  The QB and the top 3 pass catchers are all possibilities.    The massive DT, Slayton,  6'5 358, who was the #3 OG coming out of HS, who played RT in high school, and basketball (a number of videos are available of him playing RT and basketball in high school) is also interesting.   He could backup Fletcher Cox at DT - his primary job,  and he could be used on offense as a blocker.  oline?  TE?  other?  Short yardage, goal line,  that kind of thing.   

A run first offense? In a pass heavy league? How's that worked out for Baltimore? The 2 Super Bowl finalists this year were very much pass first offenses. In fact every good team in the league (bar Baltimore who get found out in the play offs) are weighted towards the pass.

And you say you think the Eagles can win a bunch of games but then you mention Tate and Jackson being good enough to make the 53. I mean look it would be good if they did make the 53 and would potentially offer a development opportunity for the future... But lets not get carried away, if both (or even either of them) make the roster then it is because they see some potential and will be looking to develop them. That's not a recipe for winning a lot of games next year.

[Random Reglar]

Just now, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

A run first offense? In a pass heavy league? How's that worked out for Baltimore? The 2 Super Bowl finalists this year were very much pass first offenses. In fact every good team in the league (bar Baltimore who get found out in the play offs) are weighted towards the pass.

And you say you think the Eagles can win a bunch of games but then you mention Tate and Jackson being good enough to make the 53. I mean look it would be good if they did make the 53 and would potentially offer a development opportunity for the future... But lets not get carried away, if both (or even either of them) make the roster then it is because they see some potential and will be looking to develop them. That's not a recipe for winning a lot of games next year.

How has that worked out for Baltimore?

VERY WELL.

What are you thinking?  in 2019, the Ravens were 14-2 in the regular season, Lamar won the MVP. 

You should be wanting those results.   6-1, 13-2,  11-4.   They haven't been good in the playoffs.  Won one game.  That's just one of those things.  Maybe the Bills were just better that day.

Usually, teams that don't have running QBs win the Super Bowl because there are a lot more passing QBs than there are running QBs. 

Running QBs last year.   Lamar Jackson, Ravens 11-4,  1 playoff win.  Cardinals,  Kyler Murray, 8-8.   Patriots, Cam Newton, 7-8.  Seahawks, Russell Wilson, 12-4. playoffs, no win.

Partial year running QBs,  Taysom Hill + Jalen Hurts + Tyrod Taylor - 5-4. 

Combined record with those 6 QBs  43-28.    The running QBs had a winning record, which means that the Non Running QBs had a losing record.

Running offenses with running QBs work because more teams focus on passing which means that more teams are focusing to stop the pass, making running easier.



Regarding Tate and Jackson.  I can't predict how fast their development as WR or TE might be.  I can say that, looking at the youtubes, they definitely can do some QB stuff right now.  If they can't contribute enough at WR + QB + versatile back or TE + QB + versatile back/end,  they would go onto the practice squad.  Sometime top athletes like Terrelle Pryor can make a 53 at WR the same year they start being a WR, and then the next year be a 1000 yard WR.  In the case of Greg Ward, he was Houston QB,  then Eagles practice squad, Eagles practice squad, then he was in AAF,  had a punt return TD there I think,  then made the 53 and had some catches,  then had the most catches on the Eagles.    Khalil Tate did start down the WR path last year,  technically this could be year 2.  He could make the practice squad or the 53.  Perhaps special teams?   Tyree Jackson does have the high sparq that indicates that he could be a good positional convert to TE.  He's top 5% sparq for QBs and maybe around top 25% sparq for TEs.   So there's a high ceiling there.  Be a good target in the end zone at 6'7.   Logan Thomas had his best year yet as a TE.   He bounced around, QB for Cardinals, Dolphins, Giants, switched to TE, Bills, Lions, Washington,   Drafted in 2014.   There were a lot of practice squads in there.  But 72 catches is a good amount for a TE.   Who knows exactly how long it's going to take with each of these players and if it works.  I'm saying I think that both of those guys can bring enough, especially if you're innovating with running QBs, and you're having Khalil and Tyree catching, running, throwing, blocking.  

I've been typing things like this for quite a number of years on different boards, when I see that the team has a certain number of ex college QBs who could build out an innovative run first offense with running QBs.  The Eagles have a lot,  4, and are no clear different options on the roster right now.  On the roster right now are 4 college running QBs who had notable accomplishments as QBs in college.   I don't see why they shouldn't be used as QBs.  They certainly could be.  They also either do or might have the athleticism to play another position,  Tyree does have it for TE.  Khalil Tate might or might not have it for WR or RB,  we didn't get pro day numbers because pro day was cancelled because of covid.   

You should be able to see Greg Ward Houston QB highlights  and think he could do some QB things well for the Eagles, if the running aspects are maximized,  same thing with Khalil Tate Arizona QB highlights and Tyree Jackson QB highlights.   We're talking about players who are on the roster right now,   they're players that you would want to be maximizing their talents with the Eagles.  They cost nothing.  This is a year where the Eagles appear to be cap strapped.   You aren't looking at these highlights and thinking "I don't know if I want to get  this guy to be the starting QB because I don't think he's the true franchise QB of the future and the man and the guy"  you should be looking at the highlights and thinking,  can these guys, who are already on the Eagles,  do useful QB things that the Eagles can use on the field?  I say yes.  You could put Greg Ward out there with 10 blockers and have him run,  same thing with Khalil Tate and Tyree Jackson.  You'd probably use Tyree Jackson in short yardage situations.    Ward was out there often last year,  led in catches,  they can have him go in motion,  then get under center,  and then run or pitch to Hurts.  or throw a pass, like an RPO,   where it might be, quick slant, run, pitch to Hurts, who might just be standing in his normal spot.  Ward could take the snap and pitch to Hurts quickly, it would be almost like a normal snap, if that's what the play called for or, look at the quick slant,  or see if there's a hole in the line.    That seems like something plausible, similar to what Logan Thomas did with Washington. And of course, just typical jet or orbit motion, taking a handoff or pitch from Hurts.  Those seem like pretty simple ways to get Ward,  a guy who is already on the field,  running and throwing in addition to catching, a guy who is said to be a leader and a mentor to younger receivers, a good character guy, things like that, someone who has adjusted to the speed of the NFL.   The NFL is not too much for him, he did lead the Eagles in catches, and what he's really good at is being a running QB,  so, shown NFL competence, was good at QB in college, you can have RPO type plays for him.  Not clear at this point that Khalil and Tyree have the ability to hang at the NFL level,  whether it's at TE, WR, QB or UT.  I'm thinking they do and will, but it remains to be seen.   

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 hour ago, Random Reglar said:

How has that worked out for Baltimore?

VERY WELL.

1 play off win is it? Perhaps 2? I don't want the Eagles to build their model around Baltimore thanks. Running QBs are limited, defenses shut them down and Lamar gets shut down in the big games. Is he fun to watch? Hell yeah but he isn't winning a SB, not in my opinion.

The best teams are those with pass first QBs. That doesn't mean they have to be statues in the pocket but they need to be pass first. Mahomes can run, he can move around but he is a pass first QB. Russell Wilson is actually a pass first QB, he runs to extend plays and usually tries to escape pressure to buy time for receivers to get open (and because his OL is dog ish).

1 hour ago, Random Reglar said:

Regarding Tate and Jackson.  I can't predict how fast their development as WR or TE might be.  I can say that, looking at the youtubes, they definitely can do some QB stuff right now.  If they can't contribute enough at WR + QB + versatile back or TE + QB + versatile back/end,  they would go onto the practice squad.  Sometime top athletes like Terrelle Pryor can make a 53 at WR the same year they start being a WR, and then the next year be a 1000 yard WR.  In the case of Greg Ward, he was Houston QB,  then Eagles practice squad, Eagles practice squad, then he was in AAF,  had a punt return TD there I think,  then made the 53 and had some catches,  then had the most catches on the Eagles.  

I mean look it would be great if Tate and Jackson could make the 53 and contribute. This team needs talent at the receiver position so that would be fantastic. But 1) it is unlikely and there is a reason they haven't made a roster yet and 2) they are likely to be developmental guys who offer depth. Greg Ward has done well given his background there is no doubt there but lets be honest he is a limited WR. He makes the catches he should, he is dependable and I like him but having the most catches amongst this group of WRs isn't a huge accomplishment really.

You also seem to be suggesting that Take, Jackson and Ward should all be these versatile swiss arm knives? That they should take the odd snap at QB? Or be used in different ways? I mean lets get them on the roster first and see if they can contribute in their actual position before we start complicating things.

[eglz1]

On 2/14/2021 at 9:33 PM, Bwestbrook36 said:

How did drafting Goedert get into Ertz's head?? He had his best 2 seasons of his career after Goedert was drafted. 

He had a sheet year this year for multiple reasons same as basically the whole team. 

Didn't Ertz and Howie get into a "public discussion?"

On 2/14/2021 at 9:33 PM, Bwestbrook36 said:

How did drafting Goedert get into Ertz's head?? He had his best 2 seasons of his career after Goedert was drafted. 

He had a sheet year this year for multiple reasons same as basically the whole team. 

Didn't Ertz and Howie get into a "public discussion?"

On 2/14/2021 at 9:33 PM, Bwestbrook36 said:

How did drafting Goedert get into Ertz's head?? He had his best 2 seasons of his career after Goedert was drafted. 

He had a sheet year this year for multiple reasons same as basically the whole team. 

Didn't Ertz and Howie get into a "public discussion?"

[jsdarkstar]

Ertz should garner at least a 3rd round pick. 

[Random Reglar]

13 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

1 play off win is it? Perhaps 2? I don't want the Eagles to build their model around Baltimore thanks. Running QBs are limited, defenses shut them down and Lamar gets shut down in the big games. Is he fun to watch? Hell yeah but he isn't winning a SB, not in my opinion.

The best teams are those with pass first QBs. That doesn't mean they have to be statues in the pocket but they need to be pass first. Mahomes can run, he can move around but he is a pass first QB. Russell Wilson is actually a pass first QB, he runs to extend plays and usually tries to escape pressure to buy time for receivers to get open (and because his OL is dog ish).

I mean look it would be great if Tate and Jackson could make the 53 and contribute. This team needs talent at the receiver position so that would be fantastic. But 1) it is unlikely and there is a reason they haven't made a roster yet and 2) they are likely to be developmental guys who offer depth. Greg Ward has done well given his background there is no doubt there but lets be honest he is a limited WR. He makes the catches he should, he is dependable and I like him but having the most catches amongst this group of WRs isn't a huge accomplishment really.

You also seem to be suggesting that Take, Jackson and Ward should all be these versatile swiss army knives? That they should take the odd snap at QB? Or be used in different ways? I mean lets get them on the roster first and see if they can contribute in their actual position before we start complicating things.

MOST,  ALMOST ALL, of the QBs in the NFL are PASS FIRST.

The WORST teams in the NFL all have PASS FIRST QBs.

If there are 32 teams in the NFL,  and there are 28 PASS FIRST QBs who are the primary starter,  what you're going to find is that PASS FIRST QBs are taking up most of the spots, the top spots,  the middle spots, and, especially, the bottom spots.

If there were 16 Run First and 16 Pass First QBs,  it's hard to tell exactly whether the Run First or the Pass First would end up being better.

What I'm telling you is that the Run First QBs have a better record than the pass first QBs.  

Lamar Jackson and Russell Wilson are 2 of the very small handful of run first QBs, and both had good records - over .500.    12-4 for Wilson last year,  11-4 with Lamar last year.  Who are the other ones who ran for 500+ yards (my line between running and not)?  Kyler Murray and Cam Newton.   Those 2 were average.   Kyler Murray was .500, and Cam was 7-8.

I'm not seeing these running QBs being worse than average.  Lamar and the Ravens were top 4 in the AFC,  so, top 1/4.  Russell Wilson's 12-4 last year,  also top 1/4. 

So, 2 of the 4 QBs who ran the most last year were in the top 1/4.  And the other 2 were roughly at midpoint, average.  4 running QBs,  2 were good,  2 were mediocre.

That's better than average. 

And yes,  you want Tom Brady.  Tom Brady wins a lot of Super Bowls.  7.  The special category of Tom Brady does extremely well.  He was taken, originally in the 6th round.  He has won 4 of the last 8 Super Bowls.  A running QB, Russell Wilson,  won one,   Foles, a 3rd rounder, won one,  and 2 of the last 8 Super Bowls were won by 1st round draft picks who were 1st round picks,  Mahomes, and Peyton Manning, who was drafted in 1998.    

About Ward Tate and Jackson,  I can't find too much to really argue with you there.  I don't believe at all that if a player doesn't make a roster it means that he isn't good enough to make a roster,  I don't believe that, overall, the front offices are so uniformly good that better front offices can't find gems.   I also will take the position that Tate or Jackson could be put up there primarily as QBs even if they're lagging a little at TE or WR.   I'm taking the position that each of these guys needs to be able to do enough to stay on the 53,  but it might be as a QB or as the other position.  Ward is solid as a WR and should be expected to make the team as a WR.    The other 2, I have no idea how good they'll be as TE or WR.  They were good at QB in college.   The Eagles don't have other QBs besides Hurts at this point.

[Captain F]

1 hour ago, jsdarkstar said:

Ertz should garner at least a 3rd round pick. 

Im on that same line of thinking. Someone will give a 3rd. Id likely take a 4th. If its a 5, F it. Keep him and let him play out his contract. 

[RememberTheKoy]

4 minutes ago, What The F said:

Im on that same line of thinking. Someone will give a 3rd. Id likely take a 4th. If its a 5, F it. Keep him and let him play out his contract. 

 

Cant keep him.  Cap won't allow it. 

[Bwestbrook36]

4 hours ago, eglz1 said:

Didn't Ertz and Howie get into a "public discussion?"

Didn't Ertz and Howie get into a "public discussion?"

Didn't Ertz and Howie get into a "public discussion?"

Yes

[UK_EaglesFan89]

4 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Lamar Jackson and Russell Wilson are 2 of the very small handful of run first QBs, and both had good records - over .500.    12-4 for Wilson last year,  11-4 with Lamar last year.  Who are the other ones who ran for 500+ yards (my line between running and not)?  Kyler Murray and Cam Newton.   Those 2 were average.   Kyler Murray was .500, and Cam was 7-8.

Russell Wilson is not a run first QB. I would argue that Kyler Murray is not a run first QB either. Both possess the ability to run, both can make plays with their feet but that doesn't make them a run first QB. Certainly Wilson is not, he tries to buy time for a receiver to get open.