4 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Where people go off the deep end is reading it as "well if there's still risk what's the point of vaccinating and doing all this mask wearing etc.?" .. the message sounds mealy mouthed because "your chances are better with the virus and with mask wearing" isn't as reassuring as "if you do x you will be safe" which is what people want to hear.

I think people want honesty from the people in charge and they don't want to be forced to do anything. Simply say, the vaccine doesn't have much of a measurable effect on transmission rates, but it keeps you from getting seriously ill. Clearly state that, yes, the vaccine does wear off and become pretty much useless in 6 months, but then tell them about the successfulness of booster shots.

By no means push unconstitutional mandates on private businesses and celebrate when people lose their jobs over them. I think that's where the left lost a lot of people.

 

37 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

I was in home depot yesterday with my wife and baby. At check out, some random dude approaches me and says "Excuse me, it's really great to see some young people not wearing masks, there's just something about this area and the young people..."

I just said "oh, uh have a good one man" and walked out.

Personally, I don't wear one unless required because I'm vaccinated and don't think walking past people in home depot is how you catch coronavirus. However, I'd rather not discuss it with randos at stores. It amazes me that these are the people who complain about everything being politicized, yet here is this dude approaching me in a store to try to discuss in solidarity mask resistance. 

I think box stores probably have pretty good air circulation.  You should still wear a mask though.   

5 minutes ago, Kz! said:

I think people want honesty from the people in charge and they don't want to be forced to do anything. Simply say, the vaccine doesn't have much of a measurable effect on transmission rates, but it keeps you from getting seriously ill. Clearly state that, yes, the vaccine does wear off and become pretty much useless in 6 months, but then tell them about the successfulness of booster shots.

By no means push unconstitutional mandates on private businesses and celebrate when people lose their jobs over them. I think that's where the left lost a lot of people.

 

Did someone take over Kz membership? 

3 minutes ago, barho said:

Did someone take over Kz membership? 

I know you're too stupid to comprehend nuance, but I've always been a huge advocate of the vaccine for at risk population groups. That said, it's not right for me at the moment because I'm in an age group that typically has mild outcomes and I'm in great shape, further limiting by susceptibility to hospitalization or death. And, yes, I'm adamantly opposed to unconstitutional mandates on private businesses, but that should go without saying. 

The vaccine's impact on transmission rates with Delta is at most an open question, and the household study is very strong evidence that being vaccinated DOES REDUCE transmission, it just doesn't eliminate it. 

We cannot say "it doesn't have a measurable effect" with any degree of certainty, especially given that the most reliable study - the one that controls best for the confounding variables - points to very good efficacy against transmission.

I know numbers are hard.

Especially when the only constant is change. Then we are learning new things, the same time as the virus is mutating.

3 minutes ago, barho said:

Did someone take over Kz membership? 

One brief moment of clarity isn’t enough to convince me.

Now if Dr. Philly starts making sense, then someone else is definitely handling the account.

 

16 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Now if Dr. Philly starts making sense, then someone else is definitely handling the account.

 

💯% That dude's an idiot.

 

I'd like to report a fatality. 

1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

There are clearly some confounding factors that are hard to account for when it comes to outbreaks. Some of it may be related to weather - both directly and indirectly through changes in human behavior (being indoors or outdoors more, etc.), some is just plain luck on whether the virus is able to take hold in a particular population at a high enough level to result in an outbreak.

There are things that can be done that can frustrate outbreaks. The vaccine has an effect, as does mask wearing. But there's no combination of tools we have right now that will guarantee us protection from an outbreak. 

That's where it gets challenging to message on this, because the reality is that you can do everything right and still get COVID. A community could do everything right and still have to deal with an outbreak. All other things being equal, the community engaging in more aggressive mitigation efforts (masks, etc.) is less likely to have an outbreak, and if that community is 100% vaccinated the hospitalization and death rates will be significantly lower than in an unvaccinated community, but there are too many other variables (up to and including how individual members of a community may interact with people outside the community for example) to guarantee anything.

Where people go off the deep end is reading it as "well if there's still risk what's the point of vaccinating and doing all this mask wearing etc.?" .. the message sounds mealy mouthed because "your chances are better with the virus and with mask wearing" isn't as reassuring as "if you do x you will be safe" which is what people want to hear.

Exactly. It has always been about nuance and handling each situation specifically. Locales are all different and require a dynamic set of policies where the benefits of every action is weighed against the costs. 

1 hour ago, Kz! said:

I think people want honesty from the people in charge and they don't want to be forced to do anything. Simply say, the vaccine doesn't have much of a measurable effect on transmission rates, but it keeps you from getting seriously ill. Clearly state that, yes, the vaccine does wear off and become pretty much useless in 6 months, but then tell them about the successfulness of booster shots.

By no means push unconstitutional mandates on private businesses and celebrate when people lose their jobs over them. I think that's where the left lost a lot of people.

 

Then start running red lights baby, don't let those cops tell you what to do, traffic laws are optional in Kz's America.

1 hour ago, Kz! said:

I know you're too stupid to comprehend nuance, but I've always been a huge advocate of the vaccine for at risk population groups. That said, it's not right for me at the moment because I'm in an age group that typically has mild outcomes and I'm in great shape, further limiting by susceptibility to hospitalization or death. And, yes, I'm adamantly opposed to unconstitutional mandates on private businesses, but that should go without saying. 

You're so dumb. I know you've been vaccinated. This act is so weird. 

5 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

 We tried the carrot, time for the stick.

You dont the pair required to swing a stick. Go sit down.

2 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

You dont the pair required to swing a stick. Go sit down.

Incomprehensible as always. Try again in a couple days after you've sobered up. Until then, keep the car in the garage on the lawn.

58 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Then start running red lights baby, don't let those cops tell you what to do, traffic laws are optional in Kz's America.

 

55 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You're so dumb. I know you've been vaccinated. This act is so weird. 

"hurr durr you don't believe in traffic laws!"

lmfao, spot the poster who is butthurt from getting wrecked earlier in the day.  

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Then start running red lights baby, don't let those cops tell you what to do, traffic laws are optional in Kz's America.

Comparing a law to a mandate.  Interesting.

13 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Comparing a law to a mandate.  Interesting.

Ya I'm sure these low-info rubes would instantly stop queefing if it was codified in a similar manner as traffic laws. That's their real issue with it. Good call.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Ya I'm sure these low-info rubes would instantly stop queefing if it was codified in a similar manner as traffic laws. That's their real issue with it. Good call.

Low-info or not, I think most walking adults realize the difference between an on the books law and a mandate.  My previous company incentivized it's staff monetarily to get voluntarily vaccinated, and it worked.  We had a 93% participation rate, the 7% were mainly medical exceptions.  Now compare that to OSHA telling companies they're going to be fined six figures...which one do you think employees would be more apt to "fall in line" with?

27 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Now if Dr. Philly starts making sense, then someone else is definitely handling the account.

 

Well, if that comes to pass we can count you out Dave

2 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Low-info or not, I think most walking adults realize the difference between an on the books law and a mandate.  My previous company incentivized it's staff monetarily to get voluntarily vaccinated, and it worked.  We had a 93% participation rate, the 7% were mainly medical exceptions.  Now compare that to OSHA telling companies they're going to be fined six figures...which one do you think employees would be more apt to "fall in line" with?

The vast majority of these idiots refusing to comply with the mandate don't know or care about the difference. These are the dumbest people inhabiting the planet. They think the vaccine causes infertility, they think ivermectin works, they think covid deaths are overreported and vaccine deaths are underreported. They're literally risking their own lives because they're not gonna let anyone tell them what to do.

31 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

The vast majority of these idiots refusing to comply with the mandate don't know or care about the difference. These are the dumbest people inhabiting the planet. They think the vaccine causes infertility, they think ivermectin works, they think covid deaths are overreported and vaccine deaths are underreported. They're literally risking their own lives because they're not gonna let anyone tell them what to do.

The old adage goes, "you catch more flies with honey..."  Trying to go this heavy handed route isn't going to work like they hope it will.

10 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

The old adage goes, "you catch more flies with honey..."  Trying to go this heavy handed route isn't going to work like they hope it will.

We tried honey for 6 months, didn't work on the idiots. But ya know what is working? The company mandates, which so far have been overwhelmingly successful. Not ideal to use a federal mandate in this manner if you ask me, since I don't prefer the federal government dictating requirements to private enterprise at this level, but the results are pretty clear. But regardless of whether it's a federal directive, a local health dept directive, or a company directive, I support the overall message: "Get on board, or GTFO." We've got an economy to rebuild and we ain't got time for your Facebook conspiracy theories.

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

We tried honey for 6 months, didn't work on the idiots. But ya know what is working? The company mandates, which so far have been overwhelmingly successful. Not ideal to use them in this manner if you ask me, since I don't prefer the federal government dictating requirements to private enterprise at this level, but the results are pretty clear. But regardless of whether it's a federal directive, a local health dept directive, or a company directive, I support the overall message: "Get on board, or GTFO." We've got an economy to rebuild and we ain't got time for your Facebook conspiracy theories.

So you believe cutting upwards of 20-25% of some industry's workforces will help rebuild the economy?

7 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

The old adage goes, "you catch more flies with honey..."  Trying to go this heavy handed route isn't going to work like they hope it will.

The old adage is wrong. People respond more quickly to negative consequences. Especially people who have already not responded to positive incentives -- we tried offering money, donuts, etc. The group that is left will only react to pain. 

As I've said many times, I am against the OSHA mandate as I find it unconstitutional. But the actions by some governors to try and block employer mandates is equally as unconstitutional. Employers should be able to set their own rules, either way. 

The government can (i) only award new government contracts to companies that have a mandate, (ii) require all federal government employees be vaccinated and (iii) deny coverage for COVID treatments for the unvaccinated on government run healthcare plans. Do those 3 things, and the vaccination rates will skyrocket. And none of that is unconstitutional.