November 10, 20214 yr 16 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Now if Dr. Philly starts making sense, then someone else is definitely handling the account. 💯% That dude's an idiot.
November 10, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said: There are clearly some confounding factors that are hard to account for when it comes to outbreaks. Some of it may be related to weather - both directly and indirectly through changes in human behavior (being indoors or outdoors more, etc.), some is just plain luck on whether the virus is able to take hold in a particular population at a high enough level to result in an outbreak. There are things that can be done that can frustrate outbreaks. The vaccine has an effect, as does mask wearing. But there's no combination of tools we have right now that will guarantee us protection from an outbreak. That's where it gets challenging to message on this, because the reality is that you can do everything right and still get COVID. A community could do everything right and still have to deal with an outbreak. All other things being equal, the community engaging in more aggressive mitigation efforts (masks, etc.) is less likely to have an outbreak, and if that community is 100% vaccinated the hospitalization and death rates will be significantly lower than in an unvaccinated community, but there are too many other variables (up to and including how individual members of a community may interact with people outside the community for example) to guarantee anything. Where people go off the deep end is reading it as "well if there's still risk what's the point of vaccinating and doing all this mask wearing etc.?" .. the message sounds mealy mouthed because "your chances are better with the virus and with mask wearing" isn't as reassuring as "if you do x you will be safe" which is what people want to hear. Exactly. It has always been about nuance and handling each situation specifically. Locales are all different and require a dynamic set of policies where the benefits of every action is weighed against the costs.
November 10, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, Kz! said: I think people want honesty from the people in charge and they don't want to be forced to do anything. Simply say, the vaccine doesn't have much of a measurable effect on transmission rates, but it keeps you from getting seriously ill. Clearly state that, yes, the vaccine does wear off and become pretty much useless in 6 months, but then tell them about the successfulness of booster shots. By no means push unconstitutional mandates on private businesses and celebrate when people lose their jobs over them. I think that's where the left lost a lot of people. Then start running red lights baby, don't let those cops tell you what to do, traffic laws are optional in Kz's America.
November 10, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, Kz! said: I know you're too stupid to comprehend nuance, but I've always been a huge advocate of the vaccine for at risk population groups. That said, it's not right for me at the moment because I'm in an age group that typically has mild outcomes and I'm in great shape, further limiting by susceptibility to hospitalization or death. And, yes, I'm adamantly opposed to unconstitutional mandates on private businesses, but that should go without saying. You're so dumb. I know you've been vaccinated. This act is so weird.
November 10, 20214 yr 5 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: We tried the carrot, time for the stick. You dont the pair required to swing a stick. Go sit down.
November 10, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, lynched1 said: You dont the pair required to swing a stick. Go sit down. Incomprehensible as always. Try again in a couple days after you've sobered up. Until then, keep the car in the garage on the lawn.
November 10, 20214 yr 58 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Then start running red lights baby, don't let those cops tell you what to do, traffic laws are optional in Kz's America. 55 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: You're so dumb. I know you've been vaccinated. This act is so weird. "hurr durr you don't believe in traffic laws!" lmfao, spot the poster who is butthurt from getting wrecked earlier in the day.
November 10, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said: Then start running red lights baby, don't let those cops tell you what to do, traffic laws are optional in Kz's America. Comparing a law to a mandate. Interesting.
November 10, 20214 yr 13 minutes ago, Outlaw said: Comparing a law to a mandate. Interesting. Ya I'm sure these low-info rubes would instantly stop queefing if it was codified in a similar manner as traffic laws. That's their real issue with it. Good call.
November 10, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said: Ya I'm sure these low-info rubes would instantly stop queefing if it was codified in a similar manner as traffic laws. That's their real issue with it. Good call. Low-info or not, I think most walking adults realize the difference between an on the books law and a mandate. My previous company incentivized it's staff monetarily to get voluntarily vaccinated, and it worked. We had a 93% participation rate, the 7% were mainly medical exceptions. Now compare that to OSHA telling companies they're going to be fined six figures...which one do you think employees would be more apt to "fall in line" with?
November 10, 20214 yr 27 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Now if Dr. Philly starts making sense, then someone else is definitely handling the account. Well, if that comes to pass we can count you out Dave
November 10, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Outlaw said: Low-info or not, I think most walking adults realize the difference between an on the books law and a mandate. My previous company incentivized it's staff monetarily to get voluntarily vaccinated, and it worked. We had a 93% participation rate, the 7% were mainly medical exceptions. Now compare that to OSHA telling companies they're going to be fined six figures...which one do you think employees would be more apt to "fall in line" with? The vast majority of these idiots refusing to comply with the mandate don't know or care about the difference. These are the dumbest people inhabiting the planet. They think the vaccine causes infertility, they think ivermectin works, they think covid deaths are overreported and vaccine deaths are underreported. They're literally risking their own lives because they're not gonna let anyone tell them what to do.
November 10, 20214 yr 31 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: The vast majority of these idiots refusing to comply with the mandate don't know or care about the difference. These are the dumbest people inhabiting the planet. They think the vaccine causes infertility, they think ivermectin works, they think covid deaths are overreported and vaccine deaths are underreported. They're literally risking their own lives because they're not gonna let anyone tell them what to do. The old adage goes, "you catch more flies with honey..." Trying to go this heavy handed route isn't going to work like they hope it will.
November 10, 20214 yr 10 minutes ago, Outlaw said: The old adage goes, "you catch more flies with honey..." Trying to go this heavy handed route isn't going to work like they hope it will. We tried honey for 6 months, didn't work on the idiots. But ya know what is working? The company mandates, which so far have been overwhelmingly successful. Not ideal to use a federal mandate in this manner if you ask me, since I don't prefer the federal government dictating requirements to private enterprise at this level, but the results are pretty clear. But regardless of whether it's a federal directive, a local health dept directive, or a company directive, I support the overall message: "Get on board, or GTFO." We've got an economy to rebuild and we ain't got time for your Facebook conspiracy theories.
November 10, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: We tried honey for 6 months, didn't work on the idiots. But ya know what is working? The company mandates, which so far have been overwhelmingly successful. Not ideal to use them in this manner if you ask me, since I don't prefer the federal government dictating requirements to private enterprise at this level, but the results are pretty clear. But regardless of whether it's a federal directive, a local health dept directive, or a company directive, I support the overall message: "Get on board, or GTFO." We've got an economy to rebuild and we ain't got time for your Facebook conspiracy theories. So you believe cutting upwards of 20-25% of some industry's workforces will help rebuild the economy?
November 10, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, Outlaw said: The old adage goes, "you catch more flies with honey..." Trying to go this heavy handed route isn't going to work like they hope it will. The old adage is wrong. People respond more quickly to negative consequences. Especially people who have already not responded to positive incentives -- we tried offering money, donuts, etc. The group that is left will only react to pain. As I've said many times, I am against the OSHA mandate as I find it unconstitutional. But the actions by some governors to try and block employer mandates is equally as unconstitutional. Employers should be able to set their own rules, either way. The government can (i) only award new government contracts to companies that have a mandate, (ii) require all federal government employees be vaccinated and (iii) deny coverage for COVID treatments for the unvaccinated on government run healthcare plans. Do those 3 things, and the vaccination rates will skyrocket. And none of that is unconstitutional.
November 10, 20214 yr Just now, vikas83 said: The old adage is wrong. People respond more quickly to negative consequences. Especially people who have already not responded to positive incentives -- we tried offering money, donuts, etc. The group that is left will only react to pain. As I've said many times, I am against the OSHA mandate as I find it unconstitutional. But the actions by some governors to try and block employer mandates is equally as unconstitutional. Employers should be able to set their own rules, either way. The government can (i) only award new government contracts to companies that have a mandate, (ii) require all federal government employees be vaccinated and (iii) deny coverage for COVID treatments for the unvaccinated on government run healthcare plans. Do those 3 things, and the vaccination rates will skyrocket. And none of that is unconstitutional. Agreed on the first sentence, but not the second. Governor's wouldn't have to put those anti-mandate orders in place if the administration wasn't trying to institute the opposite. I also agree with your last paragraph.
November 10, 20214 yr Just now, Outlaw said: So you believe cutting upwards of 20-25% of some industry's workforces will help rebuild the economy? Wat? The vast majority of these idiots fold like a lawn chair as soon as their employer threatens to take their Coors lite money away from them. Where are you seeing 25% cuts in an industry due to a vaccine mandate?
November 10, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, Outlaw said: Agreed on the first sentence, but not the second. Governor's wouldn't have to put those anti-mandate orders in place if the administration wasn't trying to institute the opposite. I also agree with your last paragraph. No. Not governors resisting the federal mandates. The morons like DeSantis that are telling companies what they can and can't do -- like telling Cruise operators they can't require proof of vaccination. Government overreach is government overreach, regardless of who is doing it. EDIT: Crap like this. https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2021/10/21/floridas-desantis-calls-for-ban-on-employer-vaccine-mandate-days-after-similar-effort-fails-in-texas/?sh=6b4e356661fc
November 10, 20214 yr Just now, we_gotta_believe said: Wat? The vast majority of these idiots fold like a lawn chair as soon as their employer threatens to take their Coors lite money away from them. Where are you seeing 25% cuts in an industry due to a vaccine mandate? Pundits pontificating. Not saying they're exact, or even correct.
November 10, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Outlaw said: Pundits pontificating. Not saying they're exact, or even correct. They're way off. As an example, after all the protests by the NYPD threatening thousands of police will quit it ended up being like 35.
November 10, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, vikas83 said: No. Not governors resisting the federal mandates. The morons like DeSantis that are telling companies what they can and can't do -- like telling Cruise operators they can't require proof of vaccination. Government overreach is government overreach, regardless of who is doing it. I see your point. I don't 100% agree with it, but I understand it.
November 10, 20214 yr Just now, Outlaw said: Pundits pontificating. Not saying they're exact, or even correct. Uh, we've already seen the effect of company mandates on the workforce in various settings and the forced terminations range from 1-5%. No where near 20-25% that you heard from Fox news and took at face value. Find new pundits, the ones you're listening to sound hilariously stupid.
November 10, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: They're way off. As an example, after all the protests by the NYPD threatening thousands of police will quit it ended up being like 35. That's kind of misleading. It was 34 so far placed on unpaid leave. Those who quit with less than full pension was much higher in 10/21 than 10/20 (163 vs 44; but definitely not the ridiculous 10,000 some estimated), and something like 15% of the force is still awaiting word on exemptions.
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