2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

It's true that, for whatever reason, minorities are typically more hesitant to get vaccinated. You could make an argument that things like the Tuskegee experiments justify their concerns, but I can't really get on board with that line of thinking now given the situation we are in. 

You're right, they are more hesitant, but those numbers don't necessarily equate to that. I think that would be dramatizing the actual disparities. I'm just saying that those numbers don't properly represent what he's trying to say because it's definitely skewed by the distribution. They are compounding factors.

1 minute ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

You're right, they are more hesitant, but those numbers don't necessarily equate to that. I think that would be dramatizing the actual disparities. I'm just saying that those numbers don't properly represent what he's trying to say because it's definitely skewed by the distribution. They are compounding factors.

Agreed, pew probably has some poll breakdown by race that would be a better source.

18 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Um, you would expect for historically underserved ethnic communities to also lag behind in vaccination.  White people have much better access.

 

Congratulations! You now understand systemic racism!

I would argue it has a lot more to do with mistrust within that community due to past experiments

 

 

To balance out this post:

 

You knew this was coming. Every blood clot will now be a story.

https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccine/man-reports-blood-clots/

6 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

You knew this was coming. Every blood clot will now be a story.

https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccine/man-reports-blood-clots/

Like I said this is a hopeless situation. There are going to be more and more of these stories by right wing media outlets. Don’t be surprised if these vaccines are paused also

17 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Like I said this is a hopeless situation. There are going to be more and more of these stories by right wing media outlets. Don’t be surprised if these vaccines are paused also

They won't be. These aren't your "extremely rare" clots happening at a higher than usual percentage. People get blood clots.

1 hour ago, Paul852 said:

You knew this was coming. Every blood clot will now be a story.

https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccine/man-reports-blood-clots/

You know what else causes DVTs?  Having a BMI hovering at about 200 Jeff, you fat a-hole.

FFS these people...

2 hours ago, paco said:

I would argue it has a lot more to do with mistrust within that community due to past experiments

To balance out this post:

 

Yup.  Poverty and demographics is a huge factor but so is culture.  Tuskegee studies went on for 40 years.  Distrust is warranted and going to take a long time to fix.

4 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Um, you would expect for historically underserved ethnic communities to also lag behind in vaccination.  White people have much better access.

 

Congratulations! You now understand systemic racism!

Thank you!!! I was going to post something along those same lines but I didn’t want to start another "race war” but you are absolutely right.  Under served and under privileged communities  are and will continue to suffer and not have access to the vaccine.  Let’s face it, they aren’t stocking up the shelves of the pharmacies in inner cities with the vaccine.  The "super” Walgreens and select Republican run counties in Florida who fill the pockets of santos are the ones getting stock.  The corner rx stores in west philly are not.  It sucks, it’s sad, but it’s true. 

6 hours ago, The_Omega said:

You think it will go over well when it turns out that, contrary to the prevailing media narrative, it's actually minorities that are most likely to resist getting vaccinated?

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/

 

 

7 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

You know what else causes DVTs?  Having a BMI hovering at about 200 Jeff, you fat a-hole.

FFS these people...

 

I was reading the report on one of the AstraZeneca cases. The woman was 5'5" 250 pounds 

7 hours ago, DBW said:

Thank you!!! I was going to post something along those same lines but I didn’t want to start another "race war” but you are absolutely right.  Under served and under privileged communities  are and will continue to suffer and not have access to the vaccine.  Let’s face it, they aren’t stocking up the shelves of the pharmacies in inner cities with the vaccine.  The "super” Walgreens and select Republican run counties in Florida who fill the pockets of santos are the ones getting stock.  The corner rx stores in west philly are not.  It sucks, it’s sad, but it’s true. 

 

 

Right. There is definitely greater hesitancy within these communities, but the disparities in demand are not as dramatic as Zuker would like to paint with those stats. His post gives the impression that he thinks only 5% of black people are vaccinated compared to 65% of whites because they're 60% less likely to take it. That's manipulatory. There is likely some disparity of confidence in the vaccine between black and white, but it is not accurately reflected in those numbers due to the unequal distribution.

11 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Right. There is definitely greater hesitancy within these communities, but the disparities in demand are not as dramatic as Zuker would like to paint with those stats. His post gives the impression that he thinks only 5% of black people are vaccinated compared to 65% of whites because they're 60% less likely to take it. That's manipulatory. There is likely some degree fo disparity of confidence in the vaccine between black and white, but it is not accurately reflected in those numbers due to the unequal distribution.

According to stats from Philly (https://www.phila.gov/programs/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/data/vaccine/), about 40% of asians & 35% of whites have gotten at least one shot, while the black population is only at around 19%.

This is in a county that was among the first to have a FEMA center that greatly increased the availability of vaccine appointments. Philadelphia has done FAR better at getting its population vaccinated than the surrounding suburbs. 

This narrative that "inner cities" are suffering from lack of vaccine availability is just incorrect, at least insofar as the greater metro area of Philadelphia is concerned.

It's actually very difficult to track how many people in the Philly suburbs have gotten vaccinated because so many people are going out of the county to get them. Most in 1a managed to secure a vaccination appointment in their county, but those eager to get the vaccine in other groups often ended up getting vaccinated in either Philadelphia (before they shut it down) or in more rural counties. 

Anecdotally, the suburbs here are where there are still some shortages. Rural areas and Detroit itself seems to have ample supply. If access or unequal supply distribution is suspected, we could always wait a couple weeks and see if things normalize.

2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

According to stats from Philly (https://www.phila.gov/programs/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/data/vaccine/), about 40% of asians & 35% of whites have gotten at least one shot, while the black population is only at around 19%.

This is in a county that was among the first to have a FEMA center that greatly increased the availability of vaccine appointments. Philadelphia has done FAR better at getting its population vaccinated than the surrounding suburbs. 

This narrative that "inner cities" are suffering from lack of vaccine availability is just incorrect, at least insofar as the greater metro area of Philadelphia is concerned.

It's the same thing in LA. Most people from the west side (i.e., rich area) end up going to downtown or other African American/Latino areas to get the vaccine (myself included). They get plenty of doses in those areas but people don't sign up. 

4 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

It's the same thing in LA. Most people from the west side (i.e., rich area) end up going to downtown or other African American/Latino areas to get the vaccine (myself included). They get plenty of doses in those areas but people don't sign up. 

Yup. It's just a false narrative that white areas are getting better access to the vaccine. At least in my area it's the reverse: the densely populated areas (which also tend to have higher percentages of minorities) are getting much better access to distribution centers while less densely populated areas (which skew whiter) are getting less.

14 hours ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

Um, you would expect for historically underserved ethnic communities to also lag behind in vaccination.  White people have much better access.

 

Congratulations! You now understand systemic racism!

That’s just absolutely false.  The huge vaccine sites are in cities, which have significantly larger minority populations as compared to surrounding areas.  
Let’s take Philly as an example.  While the state of Pennsylvania handled the distribution of vaccines for all the suburban and rural areas, the city of Philly got their own allotment of vaccinations.  And then FEMA set up a huge vaccine site at the convention center, IN ADDITION to the independent allotment that the city received. 
 

12 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said:

That’s just absolutely false.  The huge vaccine sites are in cities, which have significantly larger minority populations as compared to surrounding areas.  
Let’s take Philly as an example.  While the state of Pennsylvania handled the distribution of vaccines for all the suburban and rural areas, the city of Philly got their own allotment of vaccinations.  And then FEMA set up a huge vaccine site at the convention center, IN ADDITION to the independent allotment that the city received. 
 

 

I don't know why you're only isolating the topic to PA. Even if they're sending large quantities of doses into the cities, there's still the matter of trying to service a densely populated area. This is not directly the result of race but rather the unequal conditions affecting access in minority-populated areas. When I got my dose at the local community center, I was in and out within about 45 minutes, and I was able to walk home. In some of these urban locations, people are waiting hours to get their dose. So, what do they do? Only go when they don't work? Take time off work, possibly without pay? This doesn't even take into account difficulties that might arise in transportation to the vaccination site. Do they have a car? Need to pay for public transportation? It's just common sense that efficient services are harder to come by in more densely-populated areas. This affects all races living in these spaces, but the unequal distribution of ethnic populations means that certain races are affected disproportionately.

 

This is what people don't understand about systemic racism. Lots of times all that it means is that you have unintended consequences from structural inequalities that affect certain races disproportionately. It doesn't mean that the powers that be are intentionally leaving certain races out in the cold, but that is the end result of shortcomings in the system.

Quote

 

New Research Shows Disparities Limiting Access to Health Care Services, Including COVID-19 Vaccines, In Pennsylvania’s Underserved Communities

 

April 5, 2021

A new report by AARP Pennsylvania and Drexel University’s College of Nursing and Health Professions highlights how geographic, racial/ethnic and economic factors are combining to restrict access to health care services for many Pennsylvanians, creating disparities that have become more pronounced during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

A new report by AARP Pennsylvania and Drexel University’s College of Nursing and Health Professions highlights how geographic, racial/ethnic and economic factors are combining to restrict access to health care services for many Pennsylvanians, creating disparities that have become more pronounced during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

"Disrupting Disparities in Pennsylvania: Retooling for Geographic, Racial and Ethnic Growth” shows that health inequities are most acute among those living in rural and low resourced areas of the state, and among underrepresented populations (particularly Black/African American and Latino), who lack access to health care, experience digital divide and face persistent local healthcare workforce shortages. The study draws on interviews with key stakeholders statewide, a comprehensive literature review and analyses of databases on the health of Pennsylvanians.

"The pandemic is effectively exacerbating inequities for those living in poorer rural and urban areas by limiting their ability to schedule, and get to, COVID-19 vaccine appointments,” said Laura N. Gitlin, PhD, dean of Drexel University’s College of Nursing and Health Professions. "For years, social conditions that have led to poor health have also combined with limited resources and unequal access to quality care to create significant disparities in underserved areas of Pennsylvania. These disparities persist and have been exacerbated by COVID-19.”   

"The COVID-19 public health crisis has wreaked havoc on older Pennsylvanians, bringing to the forefront the deep disparities that exist in access to health care and internet connectivity,” said AARP Pennsylvania State Director Bill Johnston-Walsh. "Now, more than ever, there is an urgent need to bring about systemic and structural change to promote and assure equitable solutions for older adults across the Commonwealth.”

Pennsylvania demographic trends point toward a significant expansion of the number of older adults living in poverty with poor access to health care. Currently, about 40% of Pennsylvanians are 50 and older, with nearly 19% over the age of 65. Those older adults currently live predominately in rural areas and are white with low household income. However, by 2040, the Commonwealth will experience exponential growth in the aging population led by the southeastern part of the state, which is the most populous, racially and ethnically diverse region.

"Our research shows that gaps in access to health care and internet will only continue to grow as Pennsylvania’s population becomes older and with the increase in number of low-income adults living in the southeastern part of the state," said Rose Ann DiMaria-Ghalili, PhD, associate dean for Interprofessional Research and Development at Drexel University’s College of Nursing and Health Professions. 

Geography plays a key role in access to health services and COVID-19 vaccines in other ways. The report finds that each of Pennsylvania’s 67 counties has at least one "pharmacy desert,” such with few to no pharmacies available. With local pharmacies serving as a key component of Pennsylvania’s COVID-19 vaccine distribution plan — especially in rural areas of the state — pharmacy deserts directly impact access to vaccines for those at high risk.  

The report shows health care costs are also a leading contributor to health inequities. For example, 6% of adults aged 45-64 do not currently have health insurance and 11% report not seeing a doctor because of cost, with the largest percentages coming from counties representing both rural and urban areas of the Commonwealth.

An increased role for telehealth services could represent a significant step toward improving access to quality health care statewide. Unfortunately, the report documents, a digital divide is furthering inequities for those without access to broadband internet and telehealth care. Few Pennsylvania counties are able to support 100% of their population connecting to the internet. In addition, 8% of households in eight counties report no internet access at all. 

"Critically, older Pennsylvanians are disproportionately impacted by the digital divide, whether due to lack of access to broadband, internet or smart devices, or due to digital literacy,” said Gitlin from Drexel. "The digital divide hampers their ability to access telehealth services and schedule COVID-19 vaccine appointments online.”

"During the pandemic many senior centers, adult day services, libraries and other community settings remain closed. This means that older adults, who do not have access to the internet in their homes, remain disconnected,” said AARP’s Johnston-Walsh. "Without access to the internet, or the know-how to navigate the decentralized system of scheduling a vaccine appointment, older Pennsylvanians are at a disadvantage to protecting themselves from the pandemic.”

The report finds additional barriers to accessing health care for many residents, including a significant workforce shortage. An estimated 14% of Pennsylvanians live in a medically underserved area and 22% live in an area that is both medically underserved and designated as having a health professions shortage. Residents of these areas primarily live in rural areas, or are of minority status, poorly educated, live in poverty and have limited access to transportation.

"Not only do we need more health professionals and direct care workers, we need to prepare the health care workforce to be culturally competent and capable of addressing age-related health care issues including preventing and managing chronic conditions and their impact on everyday activities of living and aging in place at home,” said Drexel’s Gitlin.

"Solutions to help disrupt health disparities impacting the 50-plus population in Pennsylvania are urgently needed,” said Angela Foreshaw-Rouse, operations and outreach manager for AARP Pennsylvania. "The time is now to assure that all individuals are able to live long and healthy lives regardless of where they live or their racial/ethnic background.”

 

Highlights of Disrupting Disparities in Pennsylvania: Retooling for Geographic, Racial and Ethnic Growth include:  

COVID-19:

• Each of the 67 counties in PA have at least one pharmacy desert (which was defined at census tract level). Pharmacy deserts will lead to vaccination deserts with vaccine rollout, causing greater disparities in those areas.
• Community-based organizations that provide services for older adults report challenges in delivering virtual services during the pandemic, reporting technology as a barrier.
• During the pandemic many senior centers, libraries and other community settings remain closed and older adults who do not have access to the internet in their homes via computer or smartphone remain disconnected.
• In addition to access-related challenges, distrust of the health care system, especially among Black Pennsylvanians, and safety concerns may contribute to COVID-19 vaccination hesitancy.

Geographic Challenges:

• About 23% of older adults living in rural communities have cognitive difficulties or difficulties with independent living and lack access to community-based services, such as adult day services, personal care homes and low-income housing, supports that are commonplace in urban areas.
• An estimated 14% of Pennsylvanians live in a medically underserved area and 22% live an area that is both medically underserved and designated a health professions shortage area. Residents of these areas primarily live in rural areas, or are of minority status, poorly educated, live in poverty and have limited access to transportation.
• Rural communities currently have roughly half the physicians per capita as non-rural areas. There are also less hospital beds compared to urban areas and several rural counties have no hospitals.

Access to Health Care:

• In PA, 6% of adults 45-64 years of age report not having health insurance and 11% report not seeing a doctor because of cost. The areas with the highest percentage of adults 45-64 years of age without health care coverage include Pike, Monroe, Susquehanna and Wayne Counties at 13% with Philadelphia at 10%.
• The cost barrier is a critical issue: 18% of those 45-64 living in Lackawanna, Luzerne and Wyoming and Erie County, and 15% of those living in Philadelphia County reported not able to see a doctor in the past year because of cost.
• Lacking broadband is an impediment to delivering telehealth services in rural areas.

Health and Digital Literacy:

• Some 7% of Pennsylvanians 50+ report difficulty in understanding information from a health care professional, and older adults report a slightly higher rate of not being able to understand written information.
• Individuals 65+ are less likely to use electronic devices to look for health information, communication with their physician, look up test results and track health charges.

Digital Divide:

• Only in Bucks, Chester, Delaware and Montgomery Counties can over 95% of the population use or connect to the internet in their household.
  • 12% of counties (Cameron, Clearfield, Forest, McKeon, Philadelphia, Sullivan, Union and Warren) have 8% of households with no internet access.
  • Smartphones can lessen the internet access divide by enabling individuals to access the internet on their phone.
• During the pandemic, many senior centers, libraries and other community settings remain closed and older adults, who do not have access to the internet in their homes via computer or smartphone, remain disconnected.
• Lack of broadband internet is an impediment to delivering telehealth services in rural areas.

Workforce Shortage and Competencies:

• Pennsylvania faces a significant workforce shortage in health care professionals including direct care workers, dentists, nurse practitioners, physical therapists, physicians, physician assistants, pharmacists, psychiatrists, registered dietitians, registered nurses, occupational therapists and social workers.
  • An estimated 14% of Pennsylvanians live in a medically underserved area and 22% live an area that is both medically underserved and designated a health professions shortage area.
  • Residents of these areas primarily live in rural areas, or are of minority status, poorly educated, live in poverty and have limited access to transportation.
• The workforce is unprepared to address complex and co-morbid conditions and lack training in the specialty of geriatrics.

Download the report. 

https://drexel.edu/now/archive/2021/April/CNHP-AARP-PA-Disrupting-Disparities-Report/

 

6 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I don't know why you're only isolating the topic to PA. Even if they're sending large quantities of doses into the cities, there's still the matter of trying to service a densely populated area. This is not directly the result of race but rather the unequal conditions affecting access in minority-populated areas. When I got my dose at the local community center, I was in and out within about 45 minutes, and I was able to walk home. In some of these urban locations, people are waiting hours to get their dose. So, what do they do? Only go when they don't work? Take time off work, possibly without pay? This doesn't even take into account difficulties that might arise in transportation to the vaccination site. Do they have a car? Need to pay for public transportation? It's just common sense that efficient services are harder to come by in more densely-populated areas. This affects all races living in these spaces, but the unequal distribution of ethnic populations means that certain races are affected disproportionately.

I’m isolating the topic of PA because that’s the area I have knowledge of.  
As to providing access in densely populated areas, it’s way easier for people who live in the city to get to vaccine sites than people who live in suburban and rural areas.  In a city, There’s public transportation, taxis, ride share services, or if you live close enough, walk.   Providing access in rural less densely populated areas is obviously much harder as typically the only option available to people is to drive.

Quote

Racial inequalities in Philadelphia's vaccine rollout

While the Philadelphia Department of Public Health prioritizes getting the vaccines out quickly and in a way that saves the most lives, a PDPH spokesperson, who requested anonymity, wrote in an email to The Daily Pennsylvanian that it is also the department's priority to distribute vaccines in a way that is racially equitable.

PDPH spokesperson James Garrow previously told The Daily Pennsylvanian that Philadelphia's decision to begin allowing walk-ins on March 17 at the Federal Emergency Management Agency-run site in the Pennsylvania Convention Center in Center City displayed signs of early success in improving the racial equity of the city's COVID-19 vaccine distribution.

According to the anonymous PDPH spokesperson, beyond the 150 vaccination sites available around the city — located in hospitals, federally qualified health centers, and pharmacies — the city is working to set up city-run mass vaccination sites in order to vaccinate more residents and help close the racial gap in vaccinations.

In addition, the spokesperson wrote to the DP that the city will soon be launching a media campaign that will "highlight medical providers from communities of color and purchasing ad space in community and ethnic news outlets” in order to communicate with communities of color. 

Philadelphia is not the only city that has seen a racial gap at its vaccination sites. Despite Black, Hispanic, and Native American citizens dying at about three times the rate of white citizens, they are being vaccinated at lower rates in at least 38 states nationwide.

Ezelle Sanford III, a postdoctoral fellow in Penn's Program on Race, Science, and Society, said that racial inequalities in terms of vaccine rollout have also been reflected in COVID-19 rates of infection and outcomes, which Sanford believes is a result of a larger foundation of racial inequality.

Sanford said that because of Black communities' past experiences with medical studies — such as the Tuskegee Experiment, in which Black men with syphilis were misled into participating and were not given adequate treatment for the disease — the Black community has been wary of getting the vaccine. 

"While addressing medical mistrust is important, we have to understand that it’s been centuries long in the making,” Sanford said, adding that this distrust of medicine is still present among marginalized populations as a result of the American medical system's failure to treat their needs.

"We understood that COVID-19 was ravaging communities of color — Black communities, Indigenous communities, Latinx communities — those should have been the groups that were prioritized,” Sanford said about the nation's vaccine rollout process. "I want the structural accessibility of vaccines to be the primary concern, rather than blaming communities of color for their distrust.”

Sanford added that one barrier to vaccination has been the distribution of vaccines in more white, affluent areas as opposed to in working-class communities and communities of color that have borne the brunt of the pandemic's effects.

https://www.thedp.com/article/2021/03/philadelphia-vaccine-rollout-inequities-community-leaders-penn-experts

 

@EaglesRocker97 I completely buy that black and brown minorities face challenges that whites do not, and that generations of racism and racist policies impact trust between these historically marginalized groups and "the state". 

but these articles and studies are jumping through insane hoops to stick to this narrative that minorities are somehow being underserved.

if you want to argue that the general lack of trust is a factor, then I can get on board to a degree. but in 2021, there is nothing in how the distribution is being conducted that can be construed as being designed to prioritize white communities over those of color. 

but at some point this becomes a "lead a horse to water" situation.

10 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

@EaglesRocker97 I completely buy that black and brown minorities face challenges that whites do not, and that generations of racism and racist policies impact trust between these historically marginalized groups and "the state". 

but these articles and studies are jumping through insane hoops to stick to this narrative that minorities are somehow being underserved.

if you want to argue that the general lack of trust is a factor, then I can get on board to a degree. but in 2021, there is nothing in how the distribution is being conducted that can be construed as being designed to prioritize white communities over those of color. 

but at some point this becomes a "lead a horse to water" situation.

 

Like I said, I'm not saying that these communities are intentionally being pushed aside. It's not a "prioritization" thing with me but rather the end result of structural disparities betwen urban, rural, and suburban networks. This is where people get lost on this topic. I know  some on the left like to paint this as some racist conspiracy to keep black and brown people down. I don't think that's what's happening, at least not today. It may have been happening decades ago and we still have vestiges of those systems that perpetuate it. I more or less see racial disparities as a reflection of general dysfunctionality in how goods and services are distributed and accessed in these parts of the country, and when you consider the demographics, these shortcomings affect different races disproportionately.

nvmind

9 minutes ago, paco said:

OMG WILL THIS SHUT YOU TO IDIOTS UP

 

Yes, there have been multiple instances of firebombs in Portland.  No, they haven't been weekly in 2021.  You are arguing over each other and in circles.  STFU 

Wrong thread.