I wonder if Maher has any regrets giving this moron a far bigger platform than he ever deserved:

 

2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I wonder if Maher has any regrets giving this moron a far bigger platform than he ever deserved:

 

Oh come on. JFC these people.

3 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

Oh come on. JFC these people.

My gut reaction when I first watched them on Maher was that they were a couple of anti-vax morons. I backed off some of that after rewatching the interview because I thought maybe I was rushing to judgement and being too harsh. Turns out I should've stayed with my hunch. Shame on Bill for not properly vetting them.

4 hours ago, Paul852 said:

Of course he got free healthcare. He was an illegal alien.

And you know it was socialized health care paid by taxpayers because it nearly killed him

 

 

2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

yup. I figure it won't be until school is back in session that you see a return to the workforce for many. there are a lot of moms that work in the restaurant service industry, and a lot of those moms are deciding they can hold off until their kids are back to school.

Maybe some jobs will come back but, grocery retail will continue to struggle. People are sick and tired of being run into the ground and still have to kiss the ass of the customers whole they continue to treat everyone like sheet. It's not worth the stress and the way you are treated in grocery retail anymore. 

 

 

51 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Maybe some jobs will come back but, grocery retail will continue to struggle. People are sick and tired of being run into the ground and still have to kiss the ass of the customers whole they continue to treat everyone like sheet. It's not worth the stress and the way you are treated in grocery retail anymore. 

 

The policies surrounding what workers have to put up with from customers needs to change. 

6 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

The policies surrounding what workers have to put up with from customers needs to change. 

Agreed, and where I work it's a small chain and corporate never backs us up when we get absolutely trashed by customers. Grocery retail just doenst pay enough to deal with it anymore. 

8 minutes ago, Paul852 said:

The policies surrounding what workers have to put up with from customers needs to change. 

I agree. I hate the "Customer is always right” concept. And I say that as a customer. I’ve seen store workers get verbal abuse that was clearly over the line. 

1 minute ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Agreed, and where I work it's a small chain and corporate never backs us up when we get absolutely trashed by customers. Grocery retail just doenst pay enough to deal with it anymore. 

I’ll come to your store one day and follow you around all day holding a sign saying:

Bwestbrook36 is the man!!

3 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I wonder if Maher has any regrets giving this moron a far bigger platform than he ever deserved:

 

I mean, I think the logic of what he's saying is basically true: If a variant breaks through, natural selection will allow that variant to become more widespread and further mutate into something that is increasingly virulent. However, the implied conclusion that "these vaccines are doing more harm than good" is fundamentally moronic.

8 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

I’ll come to your store one day and follow you around all day holding a sign saying:

Bwestbrook36 is the man!!

🥰🥰 You will always have my heart joe!! Lol 

42 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I mean, I think the logic of what he's saying is basically true: If a variant breaks through, natural selection will allow that variant to become more widespread and further mutate into something that is increasingly virulent. However, the implied conclusion that "these vaccines are doing more harm than good" is fundamentally moronic.

He completely ignores that the current dominant variants emerged prior to vaccination campaigns getting under way and that the key to stopping the emergence of new more dangerous variants is to reduce community spread, which vaccines are, of course, by far the best and most efficient way of doing so. He's also previously said that taking these vaccines is like playing Russian Roulette. 

Insane crackpot pot who needs to be de-platformed asap.

22 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

He completely ignores that the current dominant variants emerged prior to vaccination campaigns getting under way and that the key to stopping the emergence of new more dangerous variants is to reduce community spread, which vaccines are, of course, by far the best and most efficient way of doing so. He's also previously said that taking these vaccines is like playing Russian Roulette. 

Insane crackpot pot who needs to be de-platformed asap.

Agreed. I'm just saying that I think it's ok to recognize that there are some complicating factors here and that breakthrough cases do raise additional obstacles, but the sheer fact that this guy chose Tucker f***ing Carlson to disseminate this message shows exactly where his affinities lie...

20 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Agreed. I'm just saying that I think it's ok to recognize that there are some complicating factors here and that breakthrough cases do raise additional obstacles, but the sheer fact that this guy chose Tucker f***ing Carlson to disseminate this message shows exactly where his affinities lie...

Not sure what is meant by a complicating factor in this context. Delta would be running rampant regardless of whether vaccines existed or not. His notion that vaccines are the reason why it's becoming more widespread is blatantly false. Aside from the obvious origin of the variant being a country where the percentage of fully vaccinated is still at only 5%, even if we look at the data domestically, the correlation between states where delta is now predominant and states with lagging vaccination rates, paints a pretty clear picture of whether vaccines are actually contributing to the spread.

7 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Not sure what is meant by a complicating factor in this context. Delta would be running rampant regardless of whether vaccines existed or not. His notion that vaccines are the reason why it's becoming more widespread is blatantly false. Aside from the obvious origin of the variant being a country where the percentage of fully vaccinated is still at only 5%, even if we look at the data domestically, the correlation between states where delta is now predominant and states with lagging vaccination rates paints a pretty clear picture of whether vaccines are actually contributing to the spread.

 

I took it to mean that if a variant, really any variant, but in this case Delta, is able to infect and sicken vaccinated people, then that particular kind of variant will continue to spread through vaccinated populations. Obviously, having a large population of unvaccinated people makes this worse, but as the virus is reproduced in vaccinated people, presumably with some level of mutation that makes it highly infective, you are going to get a greater prevalence of variants that can effectively break through. Essentially, you have a virus that is becoming increasingly adapted to infecting vaccinated populations, thereby putting vaccinated people at higher risk for contracting COVID. It seems like basic evolutionary biology to me.

27 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

 

I took it to mean that if a variant, really any variant, but in this case Delta, is able to infect and sicken vaccinated people, then that particular kind of variant will continue to spread through vaccinated people. As the virus is reproduced in vaccinated people, presumably with some level of mutation that makes it highly infective, you are going to get a greater prevalence of variants that can effectively break through. Essentially, you have a virus that is becoming increasingly adapted to infecting vaccinated populations, thereby putting vaccinated people at higher risk for contracting COVID. It seems like basic evolutionary biology to me.

This is where it falls apart. Selective pressure for infectivity increases with each transmission from one host to another regardless of whether either host is vaccinated. And transmission rates among the unvaccinated populations absolutely dwarf those of vaccinated populations. That delta can be spread, albeit seldomly, from one vaccinated person to another does not in and of itself increase the likelihood of giving rise to a mutation associated with higher infectivity or virulence. 

What is true, is that delta, gamma, or any future variant that can evade vaccine induced immunity, will have a better chance of becoming predominant in populations with very high rates of vaccination (though mostly among the unvaccinated.) But this does not mean the chances are any higher for its evolution to select for more contagious variants, because the number of aggregate transmissions in those populations is still an order of magnitude lower than those very same variants being spread in unvaccinated populations.

In other words, vaccinated populations (relative to unvaccinated populations) neither present an increased risk for emergence of more infective variants, nor do they present an increased risk for amplification of variants that have already emerged in unvaccinated populations.

33 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

In other words, vaccinated populations (relative to unvaccinated populations) neither present an increased risk for emergence of more infective variants, nor do they present an increased risk for amplification of variants that have already emerged in unvaccinated populations.

It seems that you are referring to scale, and I agree that mutations are almost entirely being fueled by a large population of unvaccinated hosts, but when a mutant strain arises that is capable of infecting both vaccinated and unvaccinated people, it seems natural to assume that it will become more adapted to vaccinated hosts. If you didn't have large amounts of vaccinated people, there would essentially be no evolutionary benefit to evading vaccination. But with a substantial population of vaccinated people, the virus is pressured to adapt to this environment and natural selection allows these more infective variants to become dominant.

Think of how antibiotics were thought of as an unalloyed good for nearly all of their existence, but now scientists and medical professionals are re-thinking their approach, cautioning that they should only be used when absolutely necessary? Why? Because overuse of antibiotics has forced bacteria to adapt to different host conditions, and you now have a concerning trend of antibiotic-resistant strains becoming increasingly prevalent.

14 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

It seems that you are referring to scale, and I agree that mutations are almost entirely being fueled by a large population of unvaccinated hosts, but when a mutant strain arises that is capable of infecting both vaccinated and unvaccinated people, it seems natural to assume that it will become more adapted to vaccinated hosts. If you didn't have large amounts of vaccinated people, there would essentially be no evolutionary benefit to evading vaccination. But with a substantial population of vaccinated people, the virus is pressured to adapt to this environment and natural selection allows these more infective variants to become dominant.

Think of how antibiotics were thought of as an unalloyed good for nearly all of their existence, but now scientists and medical professionals are re-thinking their approach, cautioning that they should only be used when absolutely necessary? Why? Because overuse of antibiotics has forced bacteria to adapt to different host conditions, and you now have a concerning tried of antibiotic-resistant strains becoming increasingly prevalent.

Variant selection =/= amplification. I agree that vaccinated populations will naturally select for variants that evade vaccine-induced immunity. I don't agree that they will continue to amplify them or result in an increased risk of emergence future variants with similar characteristics, in comparison to unvaccinated populations.

Also, bacterial drug resistance is quite a bit different than viral vaccine resistance for several reasons. I can say with very high confidence that you will never see the medical community recommend against the over-use of covid vaccines on the basis that they already do for over-use of antibiotics.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5378080/

3 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Maybe some jobs will come back but, grocery retail will continue to struggle. People are sick and tired of being run into the ground and still have to kiss the ass of the customers whole they continue to treat everyone like sheet. It's not worth the stress and the way you are treated in grocery retail anymore. 

 

They'll come back. They have a bit of leverage, so the market will increase wages and improve working conditions to the point they are able to staff sufficiently. So when they do it will be in better circumstances. But the market will find equilibrium.

We'll just pay more when eating out for it. And I'm ok with that, if that's what the market bears.

2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

They'll come back. They have a bit of leverage, so the market will increase wages and improve working conditions to the point they are able to staff sufficiently. So when they do it will be in better circumstances. But the market will find equilibrium.

We'll just pay more when eating out for it. And I'm ok with that, if that's what the market bears.

Well the answer to my companies lack of help was to start hiring 14 yr olds. 14 yr olds don't care about wages.