July 21, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Not sure if you're referring to the same serology study from two days ago, but it shows j&j had a significant reduction in neutralizing antibodies when tested against the delta variant compared to pfizer/moderna. I'm referring to the article I read yesterday about it. Quote A recent study from researchers at New York University found that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine may be less effective in battling COVID-19 variants than vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna. The results of the study were published by bioRxiv and have been submitted to a peer-reviewed journal. According to the study, the mRNA-based vaccines Pfizer and Moderna were 94 to 95% effective in preventing COVID-19 whereas the "adenoviral vector-based" Johnson & Johnson had a roughly 67% effective rate. These are the same exact numbers when compared to Moderna/Pfizer months ago.
July 21, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Unfortunately, the CDC made the incredibly myopic decision to only track breakthrough infections if it resulted in hospitalization or death. In other words, they're not recommending a fully vaccinated person get tested when symptomatic, so we couldn't even track this if we wanted too. Not sure wtf the rationale is here, but this means we'll have to rely on other countries like the UK and Israel for data on breakthrough prevalence. Yeah, that seems like a bad decision in hindsight.
July 21, 20214 yr Just now, Paul852 said: I'm referring to the article I read yesterday about it. These are the same exact numbers when compared to Moderna/Pfizer months ago. Hard to tell from the context, but that's probably for severe disease, not symptomatic infection. I haven't seen any studies that puts mRNA efficacy in preventing symptomatic infection against delta at 95%. The serology study I'm referring to is in alignment with the UK study that puts efficacy of a single dose of AZ against symptomatic infection at around 33%. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/20/health/coronavirus-johnson-vaccine-delta.html
July 21, 20214 yr "I'm admitting young healthy people to the hospital with very serious COVID," Dr. Brytney Cobia wrote in a Facebook post on Sunday. "One of the last things they do before they're intubated is beg me for the vaccine. I hold their hand and tell them that I'm sorry, but it's too late. "A few days later when I call time of death, I hug their family members and I tell them the best way to honor their loved one is to go get vaccinated and encourage everyone they know to do the same," Cobia added. "They cry. And they tell me they didn't know. They thought it was a hoax. They thought it was political. They thought because they had a certain blood type or a certain skin color they wouldn't get as sick. They thought it was 'just the flu'. But they were wrong. And they wish they could go back. But they can't. So they thank me and they go get the vaccine. And I go back to my office, write their death note, and say a small prayer that this loss will save more lives."
July 21, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Hard to tell from the context, but that's probably for severe disease, not symptomatic infection. I haven't seen any studies that puts mRNA efficacy in preventing symptomatic infection against delta at 95%. The serology study I'm referring to is in alignment with the UK study that puts efficacy of a single dose of AZ against symptomatic infection at around 33%. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/20/health/coronavirus-johnson-vaccine-delta.html I guess we'll have me as a real world test until I can get a second shot.
July 21, 20214 yr 15 minutes ago, Paul852 said: I'm referring to the article I read yesterday about it. These are the same exact numbers when compared to Moderna/Pfizer months ago. Ok I think I see the issue, the article you're quoting is mixing up the induction of the same study (which prefaces the data with a restatement of the efficacy numbers from last fall) with the actual findings which do not conclude the efficacy against delta remains the same. Not sure where you found that article, but the author is dumb for mixing the two up and should update it to clarify that. Pretty egregious error if so. 3 minutes ago, Paul852 said: I guess we'll have me as a real world test until I can get a second shot. See above, the author you quoted most likely misread the study.
July 21, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said: Ok I think I see the issue, the article you're quoting is mixing you the induction of the same study (which prefaces the data with a restatement of the efficacy numbers from last fall) with the actual findings which do not conclude the efficacy against delta remains the same. Not sure where you found that article, but the author is dumb for mixing the two up and should update it to clarify that. Pretty egregious error if so. See above, the author you quoted most likely misread the study. Well, can't say that's surprising.
July 21, 20214 yr 26 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Yeah, that seems like a bad decision in hindsight. More info is all good but the important stuff is deaths and hospitalizations. Otherwise, we are talking about a mild disease.
July 21, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, DrPhilly said: More info is all good but the important stuff is deaths and hospitalizations. Otherwise, we are talking about a mild disease. I’ve been really sick lots of times and not gone to the ER.
July 21, 20214 yr Just now, Dave Moss said: I’ve been really sick lots of times and not gone to the ER. Yeah me too so let's say "mild or otherwise non life threatening and not requiring hospital admittance". I'm thinking the admitted patients and deaths are the key params. Not that the others aren't interesting but far less important information. I've said this a few times now but keep your eye on Israel. They are probably #1 in terms of vaccination rates (or if not they are close) and they have a rampant delta wave that is over a month old now. Info isn't fully concrete or in place yet and there are some worries and mixed signals but so far the info that exists does not point to significant rates of deaths or hospitalizations. Keep your fingers crossed. btw - The UK is up next.
July 21, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: More info is all good but the important stuff is deaths and hospitalizations. Otherwise, we are talking about a mild disease. I get that... I still feel like we miscalculated the opportunity cost. We could've more closely tracked breakthrough infections, but now it's too late to start.... I feel it even goes back to lax contract tracing. We keep missing the boat in places as the pandemic keeps chugging along.
July 21, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, DrPhilly said: Yeah me too so let's say "mild or otherwise non life threatening and not requiring hospital admittance". I'm thinking the admitted patients and deaths are the key params. Not that the others aren't interesting but far less important information. I've said this a few times now but keep your eye on Israel. They are probably #1 in terms of vaccination rates (or if not they are close) and they have a rampant delta wave that is over a month old now. Info isn't fully concrete or in place yet and there are some worries and mixed signals but so far the info that exists does not point to significant rates of deaths or hospitalizations. Keep your fingers crossed. btw - The UK is up next. Part of my question though is which vaccines the people getting sick (even mildly) took. By not tracking it you’re in the dark.
July 21, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said: It will not end until forced vaccinations That won't happen, but making the consequences of not being vaccinated significant could push people in the right direction. Don't want to get your kids vaccinated? That's your choice but your kid doesn't get to do in person school then until the pandemic is completely over.
July 21, 20214 yr Just now, toolg said: I get that... I still feel like we miscalculated the opportunity cost. We could've more closely tracked breakthrough infections, but now it's too late to start.... I feel it even goes back to lax contract tracing. We keep missing the boat in places as the pandemic keeps chugging along. I guess but if we can get this thing down to just mild cases for 99.99% of patients then we can handle it like other diseases. I'm thinking the overall cases are a nice to have sort of thing and the hospital and deaths numbers are the absolute must haves for this at this point. Of course if it turns out that the numbers for those must haves are still high then yeah the full on contract tracing, etc. would be necessary yet again. I'm probably just being too optimistic that the current vaccines together with boosters are going to do the job even against the variants and maybe with people still getting sick and missing a few days but nothing more.
July 21, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: That won't happen, but making the consequences of not being vaccinated significant could push people in the right direction. Don't want to get your kids vaccinated? That's your choice but your kid doesn't get to do in person school then until the pandemic is completely over. Except right now it’s only approved for kids 12 and over. Seems like a challenge for the middle school folks. I mean, you’re going to have sixth graders turning 12 all year.
July 21, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: Part of my question though is which vaccines the people getting sick (even mildly) took. By not tracking it you’re in the dark. To a certain extent yes but it isn't like there isn't some info out there. Pfizer has already recommended a booster for example.
July 21, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: That won't happen, but making the consequences of not being vaccinated significant could push people in the right direction. Don't want to get your kids vaccinated? That's your choice but your kid doesn't get to do in person school then until the pandemic is completely over. Or just keep unvaccinated kids (i.e.medical exemptions only) out of public school, period. Don't like it? Send your disease harboring kid to private school where they can swap pathogens with each other to see who can create the next deadly pandemic causing virus. Maybe they'll finally learn some science along the way.
July 21, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: That won't happen, but making the consequences of not being vaccinated significant could push people in the right direction. Don't want to get your kids vaccinated? That's your choice but your kid doesn't get to do in person school then until the pandemic is completely over. Yee that is what will happen, it is guaranteed at this point
July 21, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, DrPhilly said: To a certain extent yes but it isn't like there isn't some info out there. Pfizer has already recommended a booster for example. Yeah but the talk has been a booster in the fall. We’re in July still. 1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said: Or just keep unvaccinated kids (i.e.medical exemptions only) out of public school, period. Don't like it? Send your disease harboring kid to private school where they can swap pathogens with each other to see who can create the next deadly pandemic causing virus. Maybe they'll finally learn some science along the way. My impression is that private schools are actually requiring kids to get vaccinated. Hmmmm
July 21, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: I guess but if we can get this thing down to just mild cases for 99.99% of patients then we can handle it like other diseases. I'm thinking the overall cases are a nice to have sort of thing and the hospital and deaths numbers are the absolute must haves for this at this point. Of course if it turns out that the numbers for those must haves are still high then yeah the full on contract tracing, etc. would be necessary yet again. I'm probably just being too optimistic that the current vaccines together with boosters are going to do the job even against the variants and maybe with people still getting sick and missing a few days but nothing more. That is the goal, zero Covid like Australia tried is not happening
July 21, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, Dave Moss said: Yeah but the talk has been a booster in the fall. We’re in July still. My impression is that private schools are actually requiring kids to get vaccinated. Hmmmm As they should be. Public schools are stupid for not requiring them for anyone 12 and older when school starts in the fall.
July 21, 20214 yr Just now, Dave Moss said: Yeah but the talk has been a booster in the fall. We’re in July still. Israel has already opened up for boosters for those with high risk. Sweden is going to do the same soon. It has already started. How widespread it gets will in large part be determined by what happens in the early delta hot spots like Israel and the UK.
July 21, 20214 yr Just now, we_gotta_believe said: As they should be. Public schools are stupid for not requiring them for anyone 12 and older when school starts in the fall. Oh I totally agree. You’re going to make all your students wear masks but not make them get vaccinated? Makes no freaking sense.
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