8 hours ago, dawkins4prez said:

Hey, the victims of Pompeii called, they want to thank you guys from the bottom of their ashen hearts for letting them off the hook as the dumbest mother f'ers in history.

You can barely manage the present try to focus.

7 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The answer to that question is: not that many are. 

Here's a fun headline: N.C. hospital system fires about 175 workers in one of the largest-ever mass terminations due to a vaccine mandate

Sounds like a lot! except it's not. Novant has 15 hospitals, 800 clinics, and hundreds of outpatient care centers, and employs over 35,000 people. This means 99.5% of their employees are compliant. 

65 workers were terminated from Maine's two largest healthcare providers! Which represents less than 0.2% of the employees for those systems.

The headlines you'll hear is about the outliers. You guys are letting outliers lead you around by the nose because you prefer the narrative it affords you - that's it.

The vast majority of healthcare workers are complying. That there are stories of individuals bucking the mandate are only notable because there are so few.

I wasn't referring to North Carolina.  The numbers in NY are staggering.  Around 16% of hospital staff or some 72,000 workers.  The gov. is talking about bringing in the National Guard to replace fired health care workers.  Again, ask yourself this - why are so many people who work in the health care system and who see the results of vaccines first hand declining to get vaccinated?

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/new-york-may-tap-national-guard-replace-unvaccinated-healthcare-workers-2021-09-26/

New York may tap National Guard to replace unvaccinated healthcare workers

By Nathan Layne

 

Sept 26 (Reuters) - New York Governor Kathy Hochul is considering employing the National Guard and out-of-state medical workers to fill hospital staffing shortages with tens of thousands of workers possibly losing their jobs for not meeting a Monday deadline for mandated COVID-19 vaccination.

The plan, outlined in a statement from Hochul on Saturday, would allow her to declare a state of emergency to increase the supply of healthcare workers to include licensed professionals from other states and countries as well as retired nurses.

Hochul said the state was also looking at using National Guard officers with medical training to keep hospitals and other medical facilities adequately staffed. Some 16% of the state's 450,000 hospital staff, or roughly 72,000 workers, have not been fully vaccinated, the governor's office said.

The plan comes amid a broader battle between state and federal government leaders pushing for vaccine mandates to help counter the highly infectious Delta variant of the novel coronavirus and workers who are against inoculation requirements, some objecting on religious grounds.

Hochul attended the Sunday service at a large church in New York City to ask Christians to help promote vaccines.

"I need you to be my apostles. I need you to go out and talk about it and say, we owe this to each other," Hochul told congregants at the Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn, according to an official transcript.

"Jesus taught us to love one another and how do you show that love but to care about each other enough to say, please get the vaccine because I love you and I want you to live."

Healthcare workers who are fired for refusing to get vaccinated will not be eligible for unemployment insurance unless they are able to provide a valid doctor-approved request for medical accommodation, Hochul's office said.

The plan comes amid a broader battle between state and federal government leaders pushing for vaccine mandates to help counter the highly infectious Delta variant of the novel coronavirus and workers who are against inoculation requirements, some objecting on religious grounds.

Hochul attended the Sunday service at a large church in New York City to ask Christians to help promote vaccines.

"I need you to be my apostles. I need you to go out and talk about it and say, we owe this to each other," Hochul told congregants at the Christian Cultural Center in Brooklyn, according to an official transcript.

"Jesus taught us to love one another and how do you show that love but to care about each other enough to say, please get the vaccine because I love you and I want you to live."

It was not immediately clear how pending legal cases concerning religious exemptions would apply to the state's plan to move ahead and terminate unvaccinated healthcare workers.

A federal judge in Albany temporarily ordered New York state officials to allow religious exemptions for the state-imposed vaccine mandate on healthcare workers, which was put in place by former Governor Andrew Cuomo and takes effect on Monday.

A requirement for New York City school teachers and staff to get vaccinated was temporarily blocked by a U.S. appeals court just days before it was to take effect. A hearing is set for Wednesday.

The highly transmissible Delta variant has driven a surge in COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations in the United States that peaked in early September and has since fallen, according to a Reuters tally. Deaths, a lagging indicator, continue to rise with the nation reporting about 2,000 lives lost on average a day for the past week, mostly in the unvaccinated.

While nationally cases are down about 25% from their autumn peak, rising new infections in New York have only recently leveled off, according to a Reuters tally.

In an attempt to better protect the most vulnerable, the CDC on Friday backed a booster shot of the Pfizer-BioNTech (PFE.N), COVID-19 vaccine for Americans aged 65 and older, adults with underlying medical conditions and adults in high-risk working and institutional settings.

On Sunday, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky fleshed out who should be eligible for the booster shots based on their work in high-risk settings.

"That includes people in homeless shelters, people in group homes, people in prisons, but also importantly, our people who work...with vulnerable communities," Walensky said during a TV interview. "So our health care workers, our teachers, our grocery workers, our public transportation employees."

Walensky decided to include a broader range of people than was recommended on Thursday by a group of expert outside advisers to the agency. The CDC director is not obliged to follow the advice of the panel.

4 hours ago, Diehardfan said:

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/pfizer-launches-final-study-covid-drug-thats-suspiciously-similar-ivermectin?fbclid=IwAR35Dy4IQHeSZtuoN3uzs6mB801PC7FOYq0CRyW5zUizagJjE_plJEuh5jQ

Ain't that some bleep.....hahahaha

Ivermectin's primary mechanism of action is chloride channel binding specific to parasite muscle cells. While there has been some evidence of ivermectin binding to COVID subparts in vitro, it's antiviral capabilities haven't been demonstrated in vivo yet and those early studies haven't been super encouraging. Probably because it's antiviral binding/specificity is too weak. Still some work to be done but not looking great.

You know what are "potent protease inhibitors" however? A lot of antiviral medications. If Pfizer is "copying" something it's much much more similar to some common HIV meds

So, based on the numbers let go at two companies that employ large numbers (United 67K total employees and St Luke’s 17K employees), it appears that less than 1% of the workers are opting not to get vaccinated.  I’d say the plan is working.  I’d also say it’s clear 1% of our population are complete and utter morons.

https://6abc.com/health/vaccine-deadlines-arrive-as-some-workers-learn-the-hard-way/11061576/

4 minutes ago, Procus said:

Around 16% of hospital staff or some 72,000 workers. 

That's 16% of them that are yet to be vaccinated. In the end, that 16% will turn out to be 5% or likely even less. Because when push comes to shove, their principles aren't nearly as strong as you think, and when the cold hard reality of losing that paycheck slaps them in the face, they'll stop being stupid and come to their senses. 

13 minutes ago, Procus said:

I wasn't referring to North Carolina.  The numbers in NY are staggering.  Around 16% of hospital staff or some 72,000 workers.  The gov. is talking about bringing in the National Guard to replace fired health care workers.  Again, ask yourself this - why are so many people who work in the health care system and who see the results of vaccines first hand declining to get vaccinated?

Working in a health care system =/= you have any real education or experience first hand with patient care. The numbers clearly show that doctors are the least likely to remain unvaccinated, followed by nurses, followed by ancillary medical staff like therapists and techs, followed by house staff like sanitation etc.

So really the question should be, why is that the further removed from direct patient care and lower education level does vaccine hesitancy increase?  

Don't think too hard I'll tell you: it's because they're dumb and don't know what they're talking about. Times yours Smarty Jones.

8 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

That's 16% of them that are yet to be vaccinated. In the end, that 16% will turn out to be 5% or likely even less. Because when push comes to shove, their principles aren't nearly as strong as you think, and when the cold hard reality of losing that paycheck slaps them in the face, they'll stop being stupid and come to their senses. 

Yup. You already have a bunch of these workers rushing to get vaccinated, most of which are "health care workers" in the sense that they work for hospitals - they're administrative and maintenance staff for the most part. They either lost a game of chicken or are just lazy.

When they know their job is actually on the line they'll fall in.

Would what Procus and others think about Reagan and air traffic controllers. 

5 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Working in a health care system =/= you have any real education or experience first hand with patient care. The numbers clearly show that doctors are the least likely to remain unvaccinated, followed by nurses, followed by ancillary medical staff like therapists and techs, followed by house staff like sanitation etc.

So really the question should be, why is that the further removed from direct patient interaction and lower education level does vaccine hesitancy increase?  

Don't think too hard I'll tell you: it's because they're dumb and don't know what they're talking about. Times yours Smarty Jones.

You're smart and everyone else is dumb.  Is everyone else a liar like you too?

This is from last month - not so long ago:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-08-28/when-nurses-refuse-to-get-vaccinated

When Nurses Refuse to Get Vaccinated

By

Cynthia Koons

August 28, 2021, 7:15 AM EDT

 

When nurses refuse to get vaccinated

For the head of a hospital facing yet another wave of Covid, a vaccine mandate might seem like the only way to keep staff and patients safe. The reality is more complicated, though. Right now nearly 1 in 8 nurses are neither vaccinated nor planning to get a shot.

And in some parts of the country, hospital administrators say only about half of their nursing staff are vaccinated.

That’s the dilemma. Do you lose more nurses by mandating vaccines and having some quit, or by not requiring shots and facing staff shortages from quarantines and absences when they get sick?

 "It’s a cynical question, but what gets us to losing the higher amount of staff?” says Alan Levine, chief executive officer of Ballad Health, which has 21 hospitals and other centers serving patients in Kentucky, North Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia.

Levine chose not to require vaccinations for his health-care workers after modeling suggested he could see 15% of nurses, or as many as 900, leave if he did. That’s more than he anticipates losing to Covid-19 quarantines and illness, even with the most recent surge filling up the network’s intensive-care units and 130 staffers quarantining on a single mid-August day. At Ballad, 97% of doctors are vaccinated. Among front-line nurses, he estimates vaccination rates hover around 50%.

It’s hard to fathom how nurses, who see firsthand how Covid can kill people, could oppose getting a vaccine that’s been shown in numerous studies to provide extraordinary protection against severe illness and death. But it’s a problem hospital administrators all over the country find themselves facing. The American Nurses Association has formed a broader coalition of nursing groups to combat vaccine hesitancy in its ranks by publishing facts to help demystify the shots.

Nationally, only 35% of hospitals had mandated that staffers get vaccinated as of Aug. 19, according to the American Hospital Association. With the U.S. Food and Drug Administration fully approving the Pfizer vaccine on Aug. 23, that percentage could rise over the next few months. About 22 states now require Covid vaccinations for at least some health-care workers, according to data from the National Academy for State Health Policy.

Not all states are moving in that direction. Four so far—Arkansas, Georgia, Montana and Tennessee—established bans before the FDA’s Pfizer vaccine approval that could prevent mandates being imposed on some workers.

A number of others have yet to weigh in, leaving hospital administrators balancing their staffing concerns with their desire to protect workers and patients.—Cynthia Koons

5 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Would what Procus and others think about Reagan and air traffic controllers. 

This is different.  There are a significant number of people who work in the field who are skeptical about the vaccines or who otherwise refuse them.  This is not a bunch of workers that tried a collective bargaining power play and lost.

Again, ask yourself this, and don't give a knee jerk response like the guy who pretends that because he has a medical degree his opinions are beyond question, why are they refusing?  What makes them hesitant about these vaccines?

Ballad's nurses are bringing politics to work.

The reality is this: until COVID was politicized, vaccinations for nurses and other front line workers was not a controversial topic. It's only BECAUSE COVID was politicized that you're seeing this. Because it's rural areas - Trump country - that you're seeing the most consistent push back.

If Trump had been re-elected these rural Tennessee nurses would have been lining up to take Trump's vaccine. 

Remember guys, procus is definitely not in any way shape or form an antivaxer.

36 minutes ago, Procus said:

You're smart and everyone else is dumb.  Is everyone else a liar like you too?

This is from last month - not so long ago:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-08-28/when-nurses-refuse-to-get-vaccinated

Why do you have such a hard time conflating case studies, anecdotes and individual hospital numbers with proof? 

Even this group showed they had 97% vaccine rates asking doctors and 50% from nurses (which likely spans from ICU nurses to LPNs). So again, less education, less vaccinated.  A trend playing itself out in the hospitals and the outside world too.  

10 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Why do you have such a hard time conflating case studies, anecdotes and individual hospital numbers with proof? 

Even this group showed they had 97% vaccine rates asking doctors and 50% from nurses (which likely spans from ICU nurses to LPNs). So again, less education, less vaccinated.  A trend playing itself out in the hospitals and the outside world too.  

Nurses are more front line with this than physicians.  But I suspected you would throw something in to the effect that doctors are superior to nurses, and you did not disappoint. 

34 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Remember guys, procus is definitely not in any way shape or form an antivaxer.

Not anti-vax, pro-choice.  I am definitely pro-measles, mumps, polio, smallpox, diptheria, whooping cough, scarlet fever, etc. vax.  Also have no problem with Covid vaccines per se,  but have a real problem with the heavy handed way they are being mandated - especially among those who already were infected and recovered.  Especially given that less than one year after they were widely distributed, people are still getting infected and spreading the virus.  And only one of the vaccines is FDA approved, so the rest are still experimental.

Now, the mantra is that vaccines prevent the infected from experiencing worse symptoms.  Fine, if that's the case, where are all the doctors, politicians, industry leaders laying out the protocol for what to do in case one is infected.  The so-called doctor on this thread begrudgingly admitted that Regeneron should be considered in case of infection, but guess what - a significant chunk of the public is clueless on what to do if they get sick.  Go think quick on your feet when you're infected with coronavirus.  If the powers that be were serious about helping sick people, they would be laying out the protocol of what to do to mitigate the effects of the illness once infected.  The telltale giveaway is the slander on Ivemectin - calling it horse paste.  Ridicule a treatment that has been shown to be effective and is cheap (especially outside the U.S. where Big Pharm is unable to rip off the general public to the degree they get away with here).

People like WGB couldn't care less about treating someone infected with coronavirus - especially if they're unvaccinated. 

"I'm not antivax buuuut, here's a bunch of antivax nonsense that I just happen to post every single day in here".

Just now, we_gotta_believe said:

"I'm not antivax buuuut, here's a bunch of antivax nonsense that I just happen to post every single day in here".

He’s not anti-vax, he’s just pro-horse medicine. Have you ever considered that maybe he’s a talking horse?  Of course you haven’t, you insensitive ****. 

3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

He’s not anti-vax, he’s just pro-horse medicine. Have you ever considered that maybe he’s a talking horse?  Of course you haven’t, you insensitive ****. 

Typical - if you actually READ the response, you'd see that I am pro proliferation of TREATMENT options.  But it's common to attack the messenger when you can't attack the message.  Unless you too are also against treatment options for the infected.  I guess you are.

Wgb needs to get some horse sense

 

 

6 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

"I'm not antivax buuuut, here's a bunch of antivax nonsense that I just happen to post every single day in here".

Okay, I'll bite.

Let's say you're infected and starting to feel really bad.  What's your plan?  Do you even have one?

2 minutes ago, Procus said:

Okay, I'll bite.

Let's say you're infected and starting to feel really bad.  What's your plan?  Do you even have one?

Most of the folks taking these absurd concoctions of drugs are not vaccinated.  

2 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Most of the folks taking these absurd concoctions of drugs are not vaccinated.  

Okay, you're not taking an "absurd" concoction of drugs.

What's your plan if you get infected?  Do you have one?  If not, why not?

5 minutes ago, Procus said:

Typical - if you actually READ the response, you'd see that I am pro proliferation of TREATMENT options.  But it's common to attack the messenger when you can't attack the message.  Unless you too are also against treatment options for the infected.  I guess you are.

Dude, no one’s against treatment options. We’re just against unproven treatment options. And we don’t believe everything we see on  zerohedge or Tucker Carlson because our brains are fully formed. 

Just now, VanHammersly said:

Dude, no one’s against treatment options. We’re just against unproven treatment options. And we don’t believe everything we see on  zerohedge or Tucker Carlson because our brains are fully formed. 

Glad to hear that - two questions:

1.  Define "unproven" treatment options, and

2.  Among "proven" treatment options, what is your plan for treatment - assuming you have one if you come down with a bad case.

2 minutes ago, Procus said:

Okay, you're not taking an "absurd" concoction of drugs.

What's your plan if you get infected?  Do you have one?  If not, why not?

Uhhh, I got the vaccine so I wouldn’t have to worry about that.  

12 minutes ago, Procus said:

Okay, I'll bite.

Let's say you're infected and starting to feel really bad.  What's your plan?  Do you even have one?

Call my doc and ask about mAbs and remdesivir, already knowing the former is a better option than the latter. Depending on how severe my symptoms are and how long it's been since their onset, maybe it's time to go straight to dexamethasone. You know what I won't be asking about? Hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, or nebulizing hydrogen peroxide. Why, you ask? Because I'm not a moron. And if my doctor suggests any of those three, I'm hanging up the phone and getting a new doctor.