41 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

I call Bullcrap that they took it seriously enough. I believe they were negotiating but I believe they thought it wouldn’t effect their season as they are arrogant in general. dr fauci said back in March it would effect them And there would be a second wave in the fall winter seasons. So there’s that. They should’ve expected something like this at some point in time in their season where it got reallly bad again 

no offense this bad planning And arrogance on their part. They didn’t have a contingency plan for the worst case scenario if it got worse and didn’t really have urgency that it could get worse as their season was 5-6 months down the road.  they didn’t think they could ever get to that point cause two months ago they didn’t see it. That’s a horrible excuse. They should’ve had that in their mind that it could get that bad (Dr. Fauci specifically said it would be as bad in the fall/winter with the second wave so it should’ve been on their minds it very well could have gone south at some point). you always want to have a contingency plan and some sort of urgency to have one in place in case it got worse than what you thought it was going to be. You don’t just expect it to go smoothly. That’s how you wind up in situations like this. 

Not that I’m disagreeing but I’d like to hear more detail from the players... 

Why may they not feel safe? Is everything unorganized? Do they not agree with certain policies? 
 

I feel like this barrage of tweets was coordinated in some sort of attempt to simply protect their paychecks. Well... of course it was... 

1 minute ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Not that I’m disagreeing but I’d like to hear more detail from the players... 

Why may they not feel safe? Is everything unorganized? Do they not agree with certain policies? 
 

I feel like this barrage of tweets was coordinated in some sort of attempt to simply protect their paychecks. Well... of course it was... 

That’s union mentality for you.  My favorite was when the employees at a company I worked at went on strike they decided to spread nails all over the driveways of all the managers.  I didn’t have any nails on mine, and at first I thought "glad I’m popular with my guys” — then I remembered that when I recently moved I hadn’t yet updated my address with payroll — doubtlessly they stole our addresses from personnel records.

This has been trending with various responses:

Most of the responses are silly but Stafford seems like a decent one. Lockett too. Not "no recognition" but certainly less than I think they deserve.

I can't even begin to imagine what the food bill would be from this thing 

Players have to be careful of PR and perception of their complaints when so many people have lost their jobs in the pandemic.  They are in a relatively easy position to ride out the pandemic without worrying about putting food on the table or paying the bills.  Of course it's not easy for them, but it could be a whole lot worse!

38 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

That’s union mentality for you.  My favorite was when the employees at a company I worked at went on strike they decided to spread nails all over the driveways of all the managers.  I didn’t have any nails on mine, and at first I thought "glad I’m popular with my guys” — then I remembered that when I recently moved I hadn’t yet updated my address with payroll — doubtlessly they stole our addresses from personnel records.

Both of my parents were in unions. I’m for them typically. 

20 hours ago, hputenis said:

I’m definitely not one to like musicals, but this movie was unbelievable.  Hugh Jackman was the perfect PT Barnum.  

Yes, when I first started watching it I was like this is going to be torture.  Quite the opposite, really entertaining and moving performances.  

6 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Both of my parents were in unions. I’m for them typically. 

Thats not a reason to be for them

4 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Thats not a reason to be for them

Sure it is. I had anything I needed and wanted growing up and they’re both well off in retirement. 
 

I know we live in a black and white world that believes in absolutes but there are some ppl who are for and against things "mostly”, "somewhat”, and in certain situations 

2 hours ago, Penn7980 said:

Pushing back the start of the season is always possible.  However, the way the case numbers are raising in many states now, extra month or so may not give NFL and the players the cushion they want.  Everyone wears a mask now, so that the NFL players don't need to wear a mask in the game.

 

Sadly, not everyone wears a mask. More to the point, if one player, just one, tests positive in any game, everyone who participated in any way should be quarantined. Everyone.

I don't see this as either the players or the owners trying to F each other; they're just trying to cut a deal. The rest is just noise.

My strong est wish is that we cancel the season and get the country healthy for 2021. It's not going to happen, of course, because we're testing too much. If we didn't test, no one would  test positive, and the virus would go away.

What could possibly be wrong with that???

2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

 

I don’t doubt that at all.  I just want to see it happen.  Don’t play.

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

Thats not a reason to be for them

There's a bloody and brutal history of unions. Before them, it was in essence, corporate slavery. Check out the lyrics to Tennessee Ernie Ford's 16 Tons. 

Sixteen Tons

Tennessee Ernie Ford

Some people say a man is made outta mud
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded sixteen tons of number nine coal
And the straw boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Can't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
One fist of iron, the other of steel
If the right one don't a-get you, then the left one will

You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

 

3 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I can’t answer thay. My point was more this should’ve been discussed more in-depth with Contingency plans and not d***ing Assuming it was going to get better and couldn’t get worse from when the pandemic started. It felt like all along the owners/goodell didn’t think the pandemic would effect their season as it was 5-6 months down the road. And players really weren’t pushing harder to get things done. Frankly both d***ed around to the last minute. Sadly based off Brandt’s tweet it feels like the owners had a purposeful plan in doing so. 

I agree they should have been more diligent. From what I have heard/read, a huge hangup is the guaranteed salaries...if they only get September in, the players want paid for the whole season.  There has to be give and take with that.  

12 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I agree they should have been more diligent. From what I have heard/read, a huge hangup is the guaranteed salaries...if they only get September in, the players want paid for the whole season.  There has to be give and take with that.  

Agreed. Not sure players are going to win against the owners on that point.

7 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Agreed. Not sure players are going to win against the owners on that point.

I don't think they will either, so i think they've changed tactics....safety thet ultimately ends up with no preseason, etc.  They know that hot button will engage the fans even more.  Why can't they all just work on it like professionals and come up with common sense solutions?  This BS will wear down the fans. No one identifies with these rich Fs

Add: I don't think they play one down this year.

 

1 hour ago, justrelax said:

There's a bloody and brutal history of unions. Before them, it was in essence, corporate slavery. Check out the lyrics to Tennessee Ernie Ford's 16 Tons. 

Sixteen Tons

Tennessee Ernie Ford

 

 

Well, Price Fishback has a nice article showing the company store as the great exploiter of workers is a bit of a myth.

"Did Coal Miners "Owe Their Souls to the Company Store"? Theory and Evidence from the Early 1900s," J Economic History (Dec. 1986).

Economic theory and empirical evidence offer several reasons to doubt labor historians' descriptions of monopolistic company stores. First, company stores faced competition not only from local stores but also from other mines to the extent that mine employers hired in a competitive labor market. In nonunion areas like West Virginia, company-store prices were part of an employment package, including wages and housing, offered to mobile miners in a labor market with hundreds of mines. The theory of compensating differences suggests that the gain from charging high store prices would be offset by the higher wages the mine would be forced to offer to attract workers. Second, extension of this analysis suggests that the value of employment packages would have fluctuated cyclically within a long-term trend toward less opportunities for exploitation as information and transportation costs fell.
Third, one reason company ownership of stores persisted was that it lowered transactions costs, reducing the costs of holding currency in isolated areas, lowering the risks of extending credit for store purchases, and preventing the costs of contracting to minimize opportunistic behavior. Fourth, comprehensive studies by the Immigration Commission in 1908 and the Coal Commission in 1922 show that prices at most company stores were similar to prices at nearby independent stores. Prices apparently were higher at isolated mines, in part due to higher transport costs, but scattered evidence suggests that higher prices were partially offset by higher wages. Finally, miners were typically not in debt to the stores nor paid entirely in scrip. Scrip was offered as an advance on payday, when miners, on average, received 30 to 80 percent of their earnings in cash after deductions for rent, fuel, doctors, and store purchases between paydays.

3 hours ago, Penn7980 said:

Pushing back the start of the season is always possible.  However, the way the case numbers are raising in many states now, extra month or so may not give NFL and the players the cushion they want.  Everyone wears a mask now, so that the NFL players don't need to wear a mask in the game.

 

Honestly, why do they need to play all 16 if it saves the season? Division and conference games and cut it down a month. Whatever. I'm sure they can work it out somehow with that much money involved and not really having to worry about fans.

@austinfan and @justrelax right on queue with some poetic ivory tower union defense.  Unions exist for a reason...present day, there is some good, some bad to them.  But you guys are predictable.

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I don't think they will either, so i think they've changed tactics....safety thet ultimately ends up with no preseason, etc.  They know that hot button will engage the fans even more.  Why can't they all just work on it like professionals and come up with common sense solutions?  This BS will wear down the fans. No one identifies with these rich Fs

Add: I don't think they play one down this year.

 

it comes off to the fans Just like baseball did in which The owners along with the players just look greedy. comes off extremely poorly to the fans who are Not willing to hear the woe is me routine from mostly million and billionaires. 

3 hours ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Sure it is. I had anything I needed and wanted growing up and they’re both well off in retirement. 
 

I know we live in a black and white world that believes in absolutes but there are some ppl who are for and against things "mostly”, "somewhat”, and in certain situations 

None of that means unions are good, especially public ones

2 hours ago, justrelax said:

There's a bloody and brutal history of unions. Before them, it was in essence, corporate slavery. Check out the lyrics to Tennessee Ernie Ford's 16 Tons. 

Sixteen Tons

Tennessee Ernie Ford

Some people say a man is made outta mud
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded sixteen tons of number nine coal
And the straw boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
Can't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

If you see me comin', better step aside
A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
One fist of iron, the other of steel
If the right one don't a-get you, then the left one will

You load sixteen tons, what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

 

None of that is relevant in modern times

9 hours ago, TrotterIsGod said:

There ya go. Bring back T. At least a character worth remembering . Time takes care of it all . Have a great week fellas 

Can forgive a lot of sins when the kid just keeps getting up and keeps swinging. I like the new group, no matter who doesn't .  Keep Carson Vertical and play D even if the rest of the league has given up on the concept. 

I never liked D " Aka Jussie's" leadership style although I acknowledge his place "in the past" as the best we ever "had".  Wish he could've gotten out of the way of his own Ego. Philly doesn't dig on ya if they don't give a crap. They leave ya to rot.   Weird new year . Anybody afraid of a Dab Revival ? Not me . Heck that's the AFC. If we stay healthy and don't have enough to win THIS division? Something definitely wrong. 

Is anyone else starting to really hate all professional athletes...even the ones that we like the most?  The entire country from minimum wage workers to business owners have sacrificed for 6 months now.  

If this whole thing has taught me one thing it's that professional athletes, Hollywood stars, TV personalities, government officials and musicians have no grasp on reality compared to the rest of the country and no longer should they be looked up to as heros.  No more idolizing these guys because they have athletic ability or can make us laugh and so on.  We've had to watch commercials with NFL players in their mansions telling us to stay home, watch Hollywood stars sing a Beatles song and listen to the talking heads and our government talk down to us.  I'm over it.  I'm over sports.  I'll be happy when things are back to normal but I'm not sitting here counting down the days until TC starts or excited about MLB or the NBA. 

Give me my family, good food and our health and the rest will work out. Goodness, rant over.

1 hour ago, hputenis said:

Did we ever get an explanation of what that mess of words meant?