In "BIG" news this year  @JRE is coming to Spotify on 9/1 . Get your Popcornz Ready. 

Face it . There's tons of subjects where no matter what is discussed it's really just Cross talk. Like Jimi's crosstown Fuzz. 

We should all hang out and go to DaaaahrrBeee then claim years of discrimination after cashing all the checks like one of your "Favorite" sons .... lol ... "Gone Too soon"  You done me So Wrong ! ! !  I gots to find your old statues and put them in Thatcher's overdue storage container down near Tasker !  Didn't we do this all with the Where's Waldo routine with Sly's statue? 

The number of folks who can even read and understand basic prose has seriously diminished and we're in a sports fan discussion board attempting to discuss the "meaning of it all?" 

#CantMakeThisSHiteUP hahaha. 

 

7 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

Is it legal to pay someone $7.25? Yes. Is that providing means to take care of a family? Not really. 

In many states it's actually not legal to pay someone $7.25 per hour.   (Unless their incomes are also subsidized by tips, etc)

And realistically, how many people actually earn that across the country?

About 540,000 out of a workforce of 80+ million.  Less than 1% of the US workforce earns $7.25 per hour.  I would make an educated guess that many of those are high school/college kids, etc.

Not to mention the fact that anyone working full time, earning  anything near that much automatically qualifies for "free" health insurance, among a myriad of other social safety nets. 

They don't pay any Federal tax and if they have a child, qualify for "earned income" which is upwards of another $6000 (sometimes more) per year that they will receive during tax season.  

Once you add what they get in terms of health insurance, safety nets, earned income, etc they probably (actually) make double that, if not more.

 

It's not a position most people would want to be in but it's certainly no where near the "tragic" situation most proponents of a higher minimum wage make it out to be.

 

 

4 minutes ago, greend said:

Is it more of a means than zero? Is your foot nailed to the floor? Most places don't even pay min wage anymore because they can't get workers.

Well that’s the thing. It’s not illegal, but could you be a billionaire knowing how little you’re paying those at the bottom?

Then you have companies who avoid giving anyone any full time work so they don’t have to supply insurance. Not to mention all of the money that goes into lobbying to ensure the laws stay in their favor. 
 

Im never going to side with billionaire owners over the players. 

@hputenis get to work

8 minutes ago, devpool said:

Acting like you can't survive without playing is whining. I'm not sure where I'm losing you, these guys are acting like they can't put food on the table if they don't play this game 

From what i've read this is not the prevailing argument.  Though I'm sure some players have chosen that attitude.  

Just now, Ace Nova said:

In many states it's actually not legal to pay someone $7.25 per hour.   (Unless their incomes are also subsidized by tips, etc)

And realistically, how many people actually earn that across the country?

About 540,000 out of a workforce of 80+ million.  Less than 1% of the US workforce earns $7.25 per hour.  I would make an educated guess that many of those are high school/college kids, etc.

Not to mention the fact that anyone working full time, earning  anything near that much automatically qualifies for "free" health insurance, among a myriad of other social safety nets. 

They don't pay any Federal tax and if they have a child, qualify for "earned income" which is upwards of another $6000 (sometimes more) per year that they will receive during tax season.  

Once you add what they get in terms of health insurance, safety nets, earned income, etc they probably (actually) make double that, if not more.

 

It's not a position most people would want to be in but it's certainly no where near the "tragic" situation most proponents of a higher minimum wage make it out to be.

 

 

Oof. Uh...Not going to get too much into this. I’ll bow out. 
 

We signed Jalen! 🥳

1 minute ago, WentzFan11 said:

Well that’s the thing. It’s not illegal, but could you be a billionaire knowing how little you’re paying those at the bottom?

Then you have companies who avoid giving anyone any full time work so they don’t have to supply insurance. Not to mention all of the money that goes into lobbying to ensure the laws stay in their favor. 
 

Im never going to side with billionaire owners over the players. 

Not like that. For instance, NOTHING is stopping Colin K from instead of trying to form a 2nd career being the "outlier" from simply getting a bunch of his friends together , printing up a bunch of flyers and saying come to XYZ ball field this Saturday at 3 PM . For 20 bucks, me and my boys will play for you.

All this nonsense about "powers that be" blah blah blah. Tell Colin to get his own league.  It's always " you done Me wrong". How ? Exactly? 

1 minute ago, WentzFan11 said:

Well that’s the thing. It’s not illegal, but could you be a billionaire knowing how little you’re paying those at the bottom?

Then you have companies who avoid giving anyone any full time work so they don’t have to supply insurance. Not to mention all of the money that goes into lobbying to ensure the laws stay in their favor. 
 

Im never going to side with billionaire owners over the players. 

Again your foot isn't nailed to the floor, go work somewhere else. That said players aren't getting minimum wage and they have it pretty good in life so........................bad example if that's what this discussion is all about. 

1 hour ago, justrelax said:

Best sighting I've had all day. He's beautiful.

You, on the other hand... 

J/K. Congratulations.

21 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

Oof. Uh...Not going to get too much into this. I’ll bow out. 
 

We signed Jalen! 🥳

Besides the never ending quest for controversy, how's everything with DeSean otherwise? We put quite a bit of Money in his pocket and haven't gotten much out of it. People like to conflate WAY In the Past history. We weren't paying him for what he did against the Gints a decade ago. Would be nice to see him spreading the field again. We also need a big guy possession receiver. I guess for now that's Ertz. But Carson relies on Zach a bit too much 

Immediate Medical Help is required

 

48 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Or we could make sure that doesn't happen and have a happier society with less poverty, crime and suffering.  It's not hard for us to have a safety net that doesn't overburden any segment of society.  

Yes free puppies and rainbows for everyone...

its actually impossible to have that jfc. And yall think i am naive

18 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

In many states it's actually not legal to pay someone $7.25 per hour.   (Unless their incomes are also subsidized by tips, etc)

And realistically, how many people actually earn that across the country?

About 540,000 out of a workforce of 80+ million.  Less than 1% of the US workforce earns $7.25 per hour.  I would make an educated guess that many of those are high school/college kids, etc.

Not to mention the fact that anyone working full time, earning  anything near that much automatically qualifies for "free" health insurance, among a myriad of other social safety nets. 

They don't pay any Federal tax and if they have a child, qualify for "earned income" which is upwards of another $6000 (sometimes more) per year that they will receive during tax season.  

Once you add what they get in terms of health insurance, safety nets, earned income, etc they probably (actually) make double that, if not more.

 

It's not a position most people would want to be in but it's certainly no where near the "tragic" situation most proponents of a higher minimum wage make it out to be.

 

 

So one argument is that there would be less need for tax credits and other tax payer funded safety nets if the employers paid higher wages.  I don't know what your background it but poverty is pretty bad for anyone living in poverty.  Certainly there are people who could work their way out of poverty but there's a lot of people that get trapped in it due to circumstances out of their control.  

1 hour ago, Desertbirds said:

The teachers who taught you were clearly overpaid.

Elementary school definitely. They were not smart

private high school they were much better

1 hour ago, justrelax said:

That's very rugged of you to say.

The fact is, it is worth it, or  perhaps I should say was worth it, else employers wouldn't have paid it.

I agree completely about defined benefit plans falling across the board; that's just a hard fact. Defined contribution plans are what we have now in most cases. A lot of people are going to be in very bad shape in a few years.

Not true as the strikes etc prevented a real open labor market. Plenty of people had the skills and desire to do those teaching jobs. High supply means lower price.

as the customers, our best interest is served by getting the best roi on the spend, not in accumulating long term debts for mediocrity.

i say this with a grandfather who was union and afan is correct it excluded minorities. I say it with an uncle that was union at Boeing as well. Clearly overpaid even when they were working. Ruined the company to the point its nothing but a govt sponge.

for policy we need to be looking at a systemic level not what is best for the labor taking advantage of the situation

1 hour ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

Just to clarify, in America, where unions were influential,  we don't have some of those conditions. Around the world, where there have never been unions, they are alive and well.

Because other nations at a different point in the evolutionary cycle have to go through the same growth process we did.

if we are allowed to be selfish why shouldnt we be happy to get cheap labor that keeps costs down and improves our standard of living?

7 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Take it to CVON sport.  

Yep

STFU, tool

1 hour ago, WentzFan11 said:

A lot of our billionaires today have money because their parents were already rich.

 

Point still stands, you don’t get there without taking advantage of other people. 

Thats the false assumption underlying your whole argument

its not a zero sum game especially in the modern monetary policy world

in actuality it creates alot of win win opportunities where both parties are better off. And min wage is not intended to support a family

1 hour ago, greend said:

Meet my new Grandson

Isaiah Lee greend

He has your hair!

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

Melodramatic nonsense. We have nowhere close to those conditions anymore. The things you point to are luxuries of our modern economy. The function of govt is not to provide a standard of living.

when i say overpaid i am including pensions etc which is just deferred comp.

and football is weird with antitrust exemption but i can actually see a purpose for a union there due to the physical danger of the game. But look what the nflpa did - capped pay of younger  talent so status quo vets can get more...

Actually, there is no intrinsic "function of government."

That is, every society has a mechanism to organize human activity, it can be coercive or cooperative. It can have as its goal the aggrandization of a few, or it can attempt to maximize the greatest good, or some group of socially agreed upon goals. All societies are coercive to some extent, whether by use of force or social pressure to follow norms.

There are no fundamental or inalienable rights ("natural rights" aren't natural, and law based on religion runs into the problem of which religion?), all rights are created by government. Tell the IRS that God said you shouldn't have to pay to support an immoral government. See how far that gets you.

We're a Constitutional Republic, within the constraints set by the Constitution, the functions of government are those that duly elected representatives at the federal, state and local level decide are the functions of government. Our rights are those set forth in the first ten amendments, as interpreted by the Supreme Court, and those set forth in state constitutions, subject to the constraints placed by the US Constitution, and interpreted by state courts within the parameters set by the Supreme Court. 

The fact that you don't believe the government shouldn't do something doesn't make it illegitimate. It just means you don't like it.

Which is why I have no patience with PC nonsense (Justice! but who determines what is Just?) or Libertarian fantasies (which are remarkably similar to Marx's vision of Communism, where government would fade away, both utopian visions with little grounding in reality).

The fact that the government can do something doesn't mean it should do something, but that's why we have elections. A sloppy way to run a society, but as Churchill pointed out:

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

 

2 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Thats the false assumption underlying your whole argument

its not a zero sum game especially in the modern monetary policy world

in actuality it creates alot of win win opportunities where both parties are better off. And min wage is not intended to support a family

Minimum wage was not intended to support a family but it was intended to support an individual minimum standard of living. Not even an individual can live on the minimum wage today. 

22 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Yes free puppies and rainbows for everyone...

its actually impossible to have that jfc. And yall think i am naive

Tell it to the Germans, the Dutch and the Scandinavians - all as capitalist (private ownership) as America. All with far more comprehensive social safety nets.

More expensive beer, fewer homeless. TANSTAAFL.

 

Just now, austinfan said:

Tell it to the Germans, the Dutch and the Scandinavians - all as capitalist (private ownership) as America. All with far more comprehensive social safety nets.

More expensive beer, fewer homeless. TANSTAAFL.

 

To be fair Afan - the beer is much better - you get what you pay for.

None are as capitalist as we are. They tax the ish out of everyone. Are you going to support everyone paying at least 20% income tax and most paying north of 40? Closed border laws etc? They are centrally planned socialist economies, with small populations and geographies. Those things dont scale as has been shown by consistent failure of the concepts

Germany is 83M people. here are the taxes:

Germany individual income tax rates, 2020

 

Tax %	Tax Base (EUR)
0	Up to 9,408
14%	9,409-57,051
42%	57,052-270,500
45%	270,501 and over

Note: The rates are before solidarity tax,all individuals,and business tax-for business income.
Members of the church pay 8%-9% church tax.

which doesnt even include a big sales tax (16%) or get into corporate tax structure

if you want people to start paying 42% income tax once they make 50k a year, you might have a coherent argument....but alas....

Just now, ToastJenkins said:

Yes free puppies and rainbows for everyone...

its actually impossible to have that jfc. And yall think i am naive

Good lord - you act as if no one has a grasp on reality but you.  Should we move back to a system of private toll roads or was the investment in public highways good for the country.  Let's end public transportation.  Every scientific study shows the long-term benefit of a strong and early public education system but yeah it's expensive. God forbid we pay teachers too much.  Should police and fire departments be pay as you go too.  I mean why even have a fire department. It just costs my money and I have never had a fire at my house.