12 minutes ago, greend said:

Meet my new Grandson

Isaiah Lee greend

Congrats.  Can he say F Dallas yet?

53 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

And most are now law via OSHA etc. so the union no longer serves that purpose. Its false to think it could go back to that.

police and fire i can see because there are actual physical hazards associated with the expected job. But even there we see the hige down side of protecting low performers and not the services they are paid to provide.

teachers need no union and are overpaid in total comp at the expense of taxpayers. It hinders turnover and actual high performance. Plenty of studies on norming that show such environments promote mediocrity and status quo.

 

The teachers who taught you were clearly overpaid.

1 hour ago, greend said:

So by this I'm guess you don't think any of the "billionaires" work their a** off? 

Not saying that all. 

19 minutes ago, greend said:

Nah, maybe some. Anyone I've ever known that has "money" didn't get it by being stupid or lazy. Do they need labor? Normally yes. Does the labor get paid? Yes

A lot of our billionaires today have money because their parents were already rich.

 

Point still stands, you don’t get there without taking advantage of other people. 

38 minutes ago, devpool said:

I don't remember hockey or basketball players bishing like this when they were negotiating their season talking about not being able to feed their families and stupid ish like that. I do remember some baseball players doing it

My initial response is why does it matter what hockey and basketball players did or did not do?  As for feeding families,  that is a common theme during negotiations for athletes in our top 4.

Just now, ToastJenkins said:

Didnt say they were

but defined benefit pensions are failing across the board. The labor isnt worth those long term liabilities. Its human nature to want that security but the only viable path is for us each to take individual responsibility for it and understand some will fail at achieving it

That's very rugged of you to say.

The fact is, it is worth it, or  perhaps I should say was worth it, else employers wouldn't have paid it.

I agree completely about defined benefit plans falling across the board; that's just a hard fact. Defined contribution plans are what we have now in most cases. A lot of people are going to be in very bad shape in a few years.

26 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Melodramatic nonsense. We have nowhere close to those conditions anymore. The things you point to are luxuries of our modern economy. The function of govt is not to provide a standard of living.

when i say overpaid i am including pensions etc which is just deferred comp.

and football is weird with antitrust exemption but i can actually see a purpose for a union there due to the physical danger of the game. But look what the nflpa did - capped pay of younger  talent so status quo vets can get more...

Just to clarify, in America, where unions were influential,  we don't have some of those conditions. Around the world, where there have never been unions, they are alive and well.

11 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

A lot of our billionaires today have money because their parents were already rich.

 

Point still stands, you don’t get there without taking advantage of other people. 

Taking "advantage" of other people, nah. Giving other people a means to take care of their families........................sure

Thanks for the congrats guys. That is my third Grandchild but my first Grandson. 

28 minutes ago, greend said:

Meet my new Grandson

Isaiah Lee greend

He has your hair 

Congrats!

30 minutes ago, greend said:

Meet my new Grandson

Isaiah Lee greend

Congratulations!

 

10 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

My initial response is why does it matter what hockey and basketball players did or did not do?  As for feeding families,  that is a common theme during negotiations for athletes in our top 4.

Because you said you were confused why people were angry at the nfl players for whining, that's why. Hockey and basketball players did their negotiating where it belongs unless I'm misremembering. Baseball and nfl players trying to gain sympathy from the fans when they make 20x more than most of us is a joke

8 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

Just to clarify, in America, where unions were influential,  we don't have some of those conditions. Around the world, where there have never been unions, they are alive and well.

While some manufacturing went overseas, some went south to states with right to work laws. That’s the threat to unions now. But there has to be a happy medium between closed shop and no unions. 

3 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

They keep their mouths shut far more, generally.

Valid point 

28 minutes ago, greend said:

Meet my new Grandson

Isaiah Lee greend

Congrats! He has your same hair. 

24 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Didnt say they were

but defined benefit pensions are failing across the board. The labor isnt worth those long term liabilities. Its human nature to want that security but the only viable path is for us each to take individual responsibility for it and understand some will fail at achieving it

Or we could make sure that doesn't happen and have a happier society with less poverty, crime and suffering.  It's not hard for us to have a safety net that doesn't overburden any segment of society.  

9 minutes ago, greend said:

Taking "advantage" of other people, nah. Giving other people a means to take care of their families........................sure

Is it legal to pay someone $7.25? Yes. Is that providing means to take care of a family? Not really. 

4 minutes ago, devpool said:

Because you said you were confused why people were angry at the nfl players for whining, that's why. Hockey and basketball players did their negotiating where it belongs unless I'm misremembering. Baseball and nfl players trying to gain sympathy from the fans when they make 20x more than most of us is a joke

Basketball  players were pretty vocal about their expectations.   But your anger is not about their wants, but because they are speaking publicly about it?  And it's whining?  Asking for what you want is whining? Perhaps they have asked privately during gnegotiations and it didn't work.   

 

If Pete Carroll ever catches up to 2020 football, the NFC would be in trouble. 

 

 

Just now, ManuManu said:

 

The beginning of a hopefully long career in eagle green.

7 minutes ago, MediterraneanDiet said:

Basketball  players were pretty vocal about their expectations.   But your anger is not about their wants, but because they are speaking publicly about it?  And it's whining?  Asking for what you want is whining? Perhaps they have asked privately during gnegotiations and it didn't work.   

Acting like you can't survive without playing is whining. I'm not sure where I'm losing you, these guys are acting like they can't put food on the table if they don't play this game 

10 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

Is it legal to pay someone $7.25? Yes. Is that providing means to take care of a family? Not really. 

Is it more of a means than zero? Is your foot nailed to the floor? Most places don't even pay min wage anymore because they can't get workers.

4 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

While some manufacturing went overseas, some went south to states with right to work laws. That’s the threat to unions now. But there has to be a happy medium between closed shop and no unions. 

UPS is the single largest employer of the Teamsters.  The employees and UPS typically have a very good relationship.  UPS employees are well compensated and have great benefits.  In turn UPS has reliable workers that have led to continued market and profit growth. Companies that don't treat workers as a liability and work with them can be profitable and grow.  I think in certain manufacturing/processing industries where margins are smaller it can be harder but it's not impossible.