19 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I'm saying that you refuse to see the facts.   The Saints trade was weeks before the draft.   You are willing to pass that up because on draft night you know a team is willing to trade up to 19 for sure.  

This spin you don't see yourself doing.  Constantly...the subliminal stuff. " multiple studs in these late first round early 2nd" ...vs " some random pick next year "   " sacrificing the 2022 season for a 2nd round pick in 2024"

You don't see that as overboard?

Guaranteed...when the season is over...you will find a way to say where a specific rookie would have been the difference.   Pass all the blame away from Hurts. 

Think about it...you are saying a backup RB this year...would be better than getting the Saints pick next year and their 2024 2nd rounder?  

Come on now...you are better than that 

Go look up the list of players I stated from the second round. They are succeeding. Not projection anymore. They are doing it. Watch other teams. They were all right there. Did you see Watson in our game. Looked really good to me.

21 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Ok....a guy this year vs a guy next year 

Was this trade really a guy for a guy?  

Do you really think it will end up one for one? Or even 2 for 1?  

You don't see how you conveniently skip that HUGE part of the equation to spin it your way?

No idea. But you can’t just win the paper draft room. Gotta make good picks. And I’m saying we have a new team that really has me wanting to grow. So our exact situation makes things a bit different. But could trade up. All things possible. But you going and going now. Because you going to make that 19th pick equal infinite draft picks in the future now. So of coarse all those are greater than just one guy. 

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But I agree here. But not sure intangible is really the correct word I’ve wanted all along.

I'll try to help.   Great players have an effect on the game a lot of times just by being there.  Presence.   Being placed on a field or court... in a certain position forces the opponent to account for them and often makes the game easier for teammates... and ultimately helps his team win.  

Now I will give your boy a compliment here...the running ability absolutely effects how a defense can attack and cover other players.   However,  I do believe that in the playoffs the approach will be different.  No spy with a slow LB...I believe they load the box and attack the line and force the issue.

Now that will lead to the AJ effect.  Last year we both agree you could take our WRs out with bump and press coverage.  AJ is difficult to do that with...so they risk a big play in the pass game. 

Basically because of these 2 very tangible talents,  it can change the game in the Eagles favor.     But both guys can change the game without even making the play. Just the threat. 

22 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Trade up to target a guy.  During draft do you guarantee someone had a target at 19 that they would have traded with us?

It’s possible nobody wanted to be at 19. Nobody wanted anybody that they knew wasn’t falling to them anyway. Possible. If the draft was terrible right there especially. But no. Don’t see it. Just a matter of compensation. But I’m not talking striking it rich in the trade. Not saying the QB hungry team gives us a billion picks. Just want a third rounder at least.

12 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Well then point that out. Prove me wrong by showing this. Sometimes you do. Or at least make a good point against my point. I think the beauty of how I see things is I can consider all the points at once. Think I’ve been seeing all the points more than most here. I don’t just praise Hurts or blame Hurts. I see things occur. I said straight I thought Hurts  carried us last game. Thought playcalling was terrible against Colts. But acknowledged final TD was really great playcall.  Steichen got them following Kelce. Hurts ran it in….but that was more great playcall.

Well you don't ever blame Hurts.   I don't think on this topic you see more than anyone. 

23 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I don't need to comment... didn't I say that the next day my focus would be the offseason?   

I felt like you don't pass up the Saints trade ....ever.   If you need a piece for this year...then you go get CGJ Iike Howie did...or Suh and Joseph.   They obviously were high on Epps and Blankenship... I don't think you pass up the trade because you think only rookies can make an impact or that they are your only option in April to improve your team.  

Never said only rookies matter. But wouldn’t trading for CJG and Quinn actually prove my point more even?

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

It’s possible nobody wanted to be at 19. Nobody wanted anybody that they knew wasn’t falling to them anyway. Possible. If the draft was terrible right there especially. But no. Don’t see it. Just a matter of compensation. But I’m not talking striking it rich in the trade. Not saying the QB hungry team gives us a billion picks. Just want a third rounder at least.

Like what we got in Saints trade.... plus the 1st and 2nd.  

25 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I don't need to comment... didn't I say that the next day my focus would be the offseason?   

I felt like you don't pass up the Saints trade ....ever.   If you need a piece for this year...then you go get CGJ Iike Howie did...or Suh and Joseph.   They obviously were high on Epps and Blankenship... I don't think you pass up the trade because you think only rookies can make an impact or that they are your only option in April to improve your team.  

Nah wasn’t that favorable a trade. Been those trades you can’t turn down. That deal wasn’t close. Pretty fair deal for both.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Never said only rookies matter. But wouldn’t trading for CJG and Quinn actually prove my point more even?

Not really...help for now , most people would say vet over rookie.   Most would look at rookie long term. 

You are trying to spin...major impact this year plus future... while disregarding the future impact of multiple picks.  

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

Nah wasn’t that favorable a trade. Been those trades you can’t turn down. That deal wasn’t close. Pretty fair deal for both.

Well... not according to all the experts.  But that's ok...you do you.

21 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

A lot of I and me here...follow?

Of coarse defending myself. Speaking on my track record. Not comparing and bringing in others to put anybody down. But whatever you saying I deserve credit on my track record. But I don’t need validation. The fact you tired of me saying I called it should speak loud enough about my track record.

20 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I know... but it is a word you like to over use because of 2 things.

1. It makes you try to sound smart

2.  It's a word that is associated with Hurts..because other than running...his tangible skills are not really there for an NFL QB.

 

Not sure it’s the correct word actually. But too many ignore what’s not just on the box score or measured in Indy.

Believe highly in all that non box score f things.

17 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Your whole argument really coming down to how fantastically unlikely my idea is now? Really really thin

Not really...I gave you 3 reasons.   You then spin it to " my whole argument "  you really don't see how you constantly do this ?

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Not sure it’s the correct word actually. But too many ignore what’s not just on the box score or measured in Indy.

Believe highly in all that non box score f things.

Absolutely... I agree too many people look at stats.  Most of the time stats are the effect....not the cause.   This is what we are talking about with guys changing the game just with a tangible talent that the opponent has to account for. 

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I'll try to help.   Great players have an effect on the game a lot of times just by being there.  Presence.   Being placed on a field or court... in a certain position forces the opponent to account for them and often makes the game easier for teammates... and ultimately helps his team win.  

Now I will give your boy a compliment here...the running ability absolutely effects how a defense can attack and cover other players.   However,  I do believe that in the playoffs the approach will be different.  No spy with a slow LB...I believe they load the box and attack the line and force the issue.

Now that will lead to the AJ effect.  Last year we both agree you could take our WRs out with bump and press coverage.  AJ is difficult to do that with...so they risk a big play in the pass game. 

Basically because of these 2 very tangible talents,  it can change the game in the Eagles favor.     But both guys can change the game without even making the play. Just the threat. 

So what about work ethic?Personality? Leadership? Even keel? Real not fake? Grounded personality? He’s the leader but he doesn’t act like he’s above approach. The way everybody respects him. Believes in him? His speeches?  What you call all that? 

Eagles gave up 3.1 yards per carry...as the stat vs Washington.   Yet we know they controlled the game by running.

Many years  yards per carry looked good under Reid...but he never used the running game to put up points ...just to waste time at the end...sometimes he still passed at the end. 

12 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Well you don't ever blame Hurts.   I don't think on this topic you see more than anyone. 

I believe I do. But feel this place has so overwhelmingly been blaming him for everything….I’m too busy pointing out all the obvious other factors. Feel if everybody here never blamed him I would point out flaws more often. So bit of small truth there. This arena does limit my hardest thoughts occasionally against Hurts. But I do talk of his flaws some.

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So what about work ethic?Personality? Leadership? Even keel? Real not fake? Grounded personality? He’s the leader but he doesn’t act like he’s above approach. The way everybody respects him. Believes in him? His speeches?  What you call all that? 

The opponent isn't defending that part.   I call those other things what people have to talk about when there isn't much else besides the running. It makes an even better story due to the guy that was here before him.   

14 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Like what we got in Saints trade.... plus the 1st and 2nd.  

Nothing spectacular. Not like the big win trades. Gotta give up something to get up in this years draft. Thought it wasn’t much myself. Has to turn into top ten pick. Then Saints messed up some on value. Then we gained.

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I believe I do. But feel this place has so overwhelmingly been blaming him for everything….I’m too busy pointing out all the obvious other factors. Feel if everybody here never blamed him I would point out flaws more often. So bit of small truth there. This arena does limit my hardest thoughts occasionally against Hurts. But I do talk of his flaws some.

You don't blame Hurts for anything.    The Giants game last year he was absolutely awful.  Dumb decisions, basically the reason we didn't put up points all game..  your focus was on a drop by Reagor...all you could talk about was praising him for sucking for 59:45...but then making one throw at the end. 

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Nothing spectacular. Not like the big win trades. Gotta give up something to get up in this years draft. Thought it wasn’t much myself. Has to turn into top ten pick. Then Saints messed up some on value. Then we gained.

So ... 3 picks for one is nothing special? 

14 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Not really...help for now , most people would say vet over rookie.   Most would look at rookie long term. 

You are trying to spin...major impact this year plus future... while disregarding the future impact of multiple picks.  

Well... not according to all the experts.  But that's ok...you do you.

I was saying how we start developing now. Really been saying he’s a backup that plays and contributes. If it was a S for example….we’d probably have played more Dime. We couldn’t because we had no other S. Tried and hot burnt on Wallace. But right now he’s be starting this game. So got both. Getting time and then having to start. Seems you value Davis impact.

17 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Not really...help for now , most people would say vet over rookie.   Most would look at rookie long term. 

You are trying to spin...major impact this year plus future... while disregarding the future impact of multiple picks.  

Well... not according to all the experts.  But that's ok...you do you.

I always do me. Totally fine with that. I saw many like the deal based on Qb future options. Seemed like the main draw. Was always known Rosie would do something like it. 

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Nothing spectacular. Not like the big win trades. Gotta give up something to get up in this years draft. Thought it wasn’t much myself. Has to turn into top ten pick. Then Saints messed up some on value. Then we gained.

So let's talk in 5 years... I bet we see an article about Howies best trades or something like best Eagles trades...etc.  I'll call it... this Saints trade will be viewed as one of the top ones.   I'll also say the Wentz trade will be up there.  I like the Dolphins trade too.   The trade in 2008 that landed us Jason Peters was good.

But for sure Saints trade will be there.

13 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Absolutely... I agree too many people look at stats.  Most of the time stats are the effect....not the cause.   This is what we are talking about with guys changing the game just with a tangible talent that the opponent has to account for. 

Pretty good explanation of that one point.

3 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I was saying how we start developing now. Really been saying he’s a backup that plays and contributes. If it was a S for example….we’d probably have played more Dime. We couldn’t because we had no other S. Tried and hot burnt on Wallace. But right now he’s be starting this game. So got both. Getting time and then having to start. Seems you value Davis impact.

Ham...nobody argues that very obvious point.  But you keep skipping over multiple vs one guy.    As I say, you do this constantly. 

17 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Not really...I gave you 3 reasons.   You then spin it to " my whole argument "  you really don't see how you constantly do this ?

Think we’ve both been guilty of some of this.