so, i'm assuming we are about to wrap this one up, right?

50 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

so, i'm assuming we are about to wrap this one up, right?

Yep, bout two weeks to go

54 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Yep, bout two weeks to go

whew, thank god i didn't listen to the dope libs on the board who said this would drag on, even under trump.

1 minute ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

whew, thank god i didn't listen to the dope libs on the board who said this would drag on, even under trump.

Yes, thank god! Ask HE if you are unsure.

3 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

Yep, bout two weeks to go

2 hours ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

whew, thank god i didn't listen to the dope libs on the board who said this would drag on, even under trump.

Well Turkey just sold a bunch of long range stuff to Ukraine, so they'll be able to hold their own for awhile yet.

I'm also hearing some rumblings that Raytheon and LockMart were the ones that nixed the deal to license PAC-2 production to Ukraine. Apparently they were worried that Ukraine would find a better and/or cheaper way to make them.

man, that promise of three days, i mean two weeks just ....

Ukrainian soldier says the drone-filled 'zero line' is so dangerous that troops sometimes have to wait a week just to move 300 meters

 

Ukraine's drone-saturated "zero line" is so dangerous that troops may have to wait days for a safe chance to move just a few hundred meters, a Ukrainian soldier told Business Insider.  The soldier, who uses the call sign Yankee, said that he has experienced cases at the zero line, the forward edge of the front line, where "if you want to sometimes move 300 meters, you can't move for seven days."  Moving even that short distance, he said, "can be like a question of life and death." Troops may need favorable weather, electronic-warfare support, and coordination among several Ukrainian units before attempting it.  "You need to make sure you have a cover of radio frequencies. The radio frequencies of the drones are put down," he said.  Doing so can involve Ukrainian electronic-warfare teams detecting and jamming frequencies used by Russian drones, disrupting their operators' ability to control the aircraft or receive video. Such operations require coordination to avoid interfering with Ukraine's own drones.

Weather also matters.  "The weather is the main component of it. If the weather is not right, you're not going to make it," Yankee said. "So you need either fog, rain, or wind that is 14 meters per second, at least, to do this. So you need to wait for the right conditions."  Fog and rain can obscure drone cameras, while strong winds can make some drones harder to launch and control.  Yankee spoke with Business Insider at Operation Legio, a Norway-led multinational program training and equipping Ukrainian land forces in Poland. He said he was learning NATO standards and tactics to use when he returns to Ukraine.  Yankee serves as a battery sergeant in a front-line unit equipped with man-portable air-defense systems, or MANPADS. These shoulder-fired missiles can engage drones, missiles, and low-flying aircraft. His unit provides air defense at the zero line and along routes leading to it, he said.

The zero line is the point where Ukrainian soldiers are closest to Russian forces. It is the forwardmost part of the battlefield, where the opposing armies may engage each other directly. Soldiers in this perilous part of the battlefield must remain concealed from enemy troops and the drones searching for them  The drone and weaponry concentration there is so high that soldiers have described being stuck there for months on end. The movement required to rotate out is highly dangerous.  Drone surveillance is constant, and the enemy is so close that attacks come with little warning. It's an area where soldiers can face both remote drone attacks and close combat with Russian soldiers, including small Russian infiltration groups that regularly approach, trying to find Ukrainian weaknesses. These challenges are tactically and psychologically daunting for troops in the field.

Even areas farther back from the zero line are extremely perilous, with attack and surveillance drones threatening troops and vehicles well behind the forwardmost positions. Ukrainian soldiers and officials describe the front as a "kill zone" that stretches up to 50 kilometers from the zero line on both sides.   Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called it a "death zone" where any tank, armored vehicle, or motorcycle that enters it "burns." He said that "everything is destroyed by drones."  Ukrainian troops have said that navigating this deadly area to reach front-line positions can be among the most dangerous parts of a mission. To reduce the chance that a single strike eliminates several people at once, some units have taken to spreading their soldiers farther apart while moving.  Yankee said it was "like Mission Impossible" just to get through this and get to the zero line in the first place.  Ukraine is increasingly trying to use drones and ground robots to conduct operations instead of sending soldiers into the most exposed areas.  But humans are still needed to operate weapons, prepare uncrewed systems, hold forward positions, and perform other tasks that Ukraine has not fully automated. For now, technology can reduce some of the risk at the front line, but it cannot remove soldiers from it.

That sheet is scary

The CIA director is in Moscow for a meeting. Last time that happened was right before Feb '22.

Some people are speculating that it's to try and prevent Russia from doing any more attacks on Europe/doing probes against the Baltics/Poland.

1 hour ago, Mike030270 said:

Quid pro quo ?

6 hours ago, Talkingbirds said:

Quid pro quo ?

Nah, Ratcliffe is very pro-Ukraine.

The Vatican FM was on the trip, as well.

The Russkies and their GRU intelligence agency have been conducting overt operations in NATO counties for many months now and they’re getting bolder each time. The foiled drone attack on the airport in Leipzig was most likely their work. Many other drone flights around airports and military bases are most likely also GRU related. I’m pretty sure they have hundreds or even thousands of agents across Europe, who are just waiting for the "go” orders on special operations.

That’s what Western Europe inherited when the Iron Curtain came down. Too many Russians with their allegiance to Putin’s Soviet Union.

2 hours ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

The Russkies and their GRU intelligence agency have been conducting overt operations in NATO counties for many months now and they’re getting bolder each time. The foiled drone attack on the airport in Leipzig was most likely their work. Many other drone flights around airports and military bases are most likely also GRU related. I’m pretty sure they have hundreds or even thousands of agents across Europe, who are just waiting for the "go” orders on special operations.

That’s what Western Europe inherited when the Iron Curtain came down. Too many Russians with their allegiance to Putin’s Soviet Union.

TBH I don't know what the F Europe is waiting for in terms of a response.

1 hour ago, Bill said:

TBH I don't know what the F Europe is waiting for in terms of a response.

It’s most likely fear of escalating into a path of no return. Europe in its entirety has just too many differences to show strength as a whole IMO. They’re also handcuffed by the erratic current US policy. They relied way too much on the US to always be there to bail them out. That problem is even bigger with the current Trump "dictators, Stalinists and all other bad actors are our friends” doctrine. Putin knows all of this and keeps escalating. No one here wants war and they’ll do anything to avoid it…not sure they will succeed at the end, as Putin will not go down without taking as many others with him as possible. He has Hitler 2.0 insanity in his filthy, evil veins.

Just now, Frankfurteagle89 said:

It’s most likely fear of escalating into a path of no return. Europe in its entirety has just too many differences to show strength as a whole IMO. They’re also handcuffed by the erratic current US policy. They relied way too much on the US to always be there to bail them out. That problem is even bigger with the current Trump "dictators, Stalinists and all other bad actors are our friends” doctrine. Putin knows all of this and keeps escalating. No one here wants war and they’ll do anything to avoid it…not sure they will succeed at the end, as Putin will not go down without taking as many others with him as possible. He has Hitler 2.0 insanity in his filthy, evil veins.

It's seeming to me like their weakness is more provocative than it isn't.

It's like after Kasham or when Turkey nailed that Russian jet violating their airspace. Afterwards the Russians didn't do ish like that again and didn't protest it.

19 minutes ago, Bill said:

It's seeming to me like their weakness is more provocative than it isn't.

It's like after Kasham or when Turkey nailed that Russian jet violating their airspace. Afterwards the Russians didn't do ish like that again and didn't protest it.

The weakness and not having a forceful response does provoke more provocation from the aggressor. It’s what bullies like Putin and his pal Trump thrive on. You can’t keep turning the cheek, as it will make them want more and more each time.

Those two events did cause an international incident of somewhat significant importance. I would argue though that those "skirmishes” are in no comparison to the degree of danger a military encounter would have today. Shooting down a Russian jet in Eastern Europe or the Russians shooting down a NATO plane could cause mobilization from both sides right away. Syria is not Europe and i’d say that neither Russia or us would start WW3 because of Syria… that’s very different from NATO land (excluding Turkey and the Syrian border).

4 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

The weakness and not having a forceful response does provoke more provocation from the aggressor. It’s what bullies like Putin and his pal Trump thrive on. You can’t keep turning the cheek, as it will make them want more and more each time.

Those two events did cause an international incident of somewhat significant importance. I would argue though that those "skirmishes” are in no comparison to the degree of danger a military encounter would have today. Shooting down a Russian jet in Eastern Europe or the Russians shooting down a NATO plane could cause mobilization from both sides right away. Syria is not Europe and i’d say that neither Russia or us would start WW3 because of Syria… that’s very different from NATO land (excluding Turkey and the Syrian border).

Looking at Ukraine, every time they did something that previously Russia was was an impassible red line, and any attempt would be met with who knows what, Russia ended up just becoming the new Chinese Final Warning.

I'm not sure why any country in Europe is still giving Russians a visa at this point.

1 minute ago, Bill said:

Looking at Ukraine, every time they did something that previously Russia was was an impassible red line, and any attempt would be met with who knows what, Russia ended up just becoming the new Chinese Final Warning.

I'm not sure why any country in Europe is still giving Russians a visa at this point.

Yep, I absolutely agree with both of your points. This war would probably be over by now if the entire western alliance would have acted faster at the start of the war. Everyone was way too hesitant, including the Biden administration. Germany was AWOL entirely until they finally grew a pair, at least to a certain extent. This whole mess was mainly caused by extreme procrastination and fear. This was Russia’s biggest gift from us all and Putin knew it from the beginning. Unfortunately for him, Ukraine didn’t fold like a deck of cards and so he’s in the same sh-t as Trump is in with Iran. No good exit strategy.

US urges NATO allies to prepare in case Russia attacks

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2026/09/02/russia-putin-attack-nato-us-exclusive/91562464007/