Are the Foreskins still an NFL team?

[Bwestbrook36]

22 hours ago, Dawkins 20 said:

I feel like Rivera is a middle of the road coach that isn't an overwhelming threat to the Eagles, but I really hope it goes down like that. Anything to piss Danny Boy off. 

I feel like Rivera is the next Jeff Fisher. 

[mihailo]

With the rise in PC culture as of late, I believe they will decide to ditch the name Redskins by the end of the year. 

[paco]

Rwords removing George Preston Marshall from the ring of fame

 

Time to remove him from the HOF too

[paco]

Report: Investors call on Nike, FedEx, PepsiCo to cut ties with R-words over name

Quote

The Washington Redskins face renewed pressure to change their nickname, but this time protestors are targeting their sponsors, Adweek reported.

According to the report Wednesday, Nike, FedEx and PepsiCo each received letters signed by 87 investment firms and shareholders worth a combined $620 billion asking the companies to sever ties with the Redskins unless they change their controversial name. There has been more pressure in recent weeks to change their name given the social climate following the death of George Floyd in Minnesota.

The Redskins have contributed to some of that change, removing the name of former owner George Preston Marshall from their ring of fame. Marshall was the last NFL owner to integrate his roster, and did so only under pressure from the government to avoid losing a 30-year lease on federal land.

But Native American leaders want owner Dan Snyder to change the name, which the franchise has used since 1933. In the past, groups protested the name and tried to win in court. Those efforts failed. Now investors are appealing to the sponsors, something that one former high-ranking Redskins employee called "different."

Adweek listed six investment groups in particular: First Peoples Worldwide, Oneida Nation Trust Enrollment Committee, Trillium Asset Management, LLC Boston Trust Walden Mercy Investment Services and First Affirmative Financial Network. The groups appealed to PepsiCo after it dropped the Aunt Jemima image from its syrup. In the letter, they praised Nike for its association with Colin Kaepernick, but noted, "However, Nike continues to provide uniforms and equipment to the Washington, D.C. NFL football team which bears the logo and name."

None of the sponsors had any comment, according to Adweek. FedEx, which has naming rights to the stadium, deferred to the Redskins for any comment. The team declined to comment Wednesday night. It was telling, one source said, that none of the sponsors has come out in support of keeping the name.

Carla Frederick, the director of First Peoples Worldwide and director of the University of Colorado Law School's American Indian Law Clinic, told Adweek that "this is a broader movement now that's happening that Indigenous peoples are part of." She credited social media for helping them land a bigger voice.

"Indigenous peoples were sort of left out of the civil rights movement in the late 1960s in many respects," she said, "because our conditions were so dire on reservations and our ability to engage publicly was very limited because of that. With social media now, obviously everything is different."

Meanwhile, the Washington Post reported that Eleanor Holmes Norton, the District of Columbia's nonvoting delegate to the House of Representatives, made it clear what needed to happen if the Redskins wanted to return to the district. It's a stance she has taken in the past, but it serves as a potential roadblock for the franchise if it wants to move back to the district when its lease on the land at FedEx Field in Landover, Maryland, is up after the 2027 season. Washington is looking at sites in the district, Maryland and Virginia.

District officials had made it clear they'd like the franchise to return to the city, where it played until leaving RFK Stadium after the 1996 season. The federal government owns the land, but last year Norton introduced a bill that called for it to be sold to the city at a fair market value. According to the Post, there is a shared responsibility to decide how to then develop the 190-acre property. Under the RFK Memorial Stadium Campus Conveyance Act, the mayor, the D.C. Council and residents would share in the decision-making.

Regardless, Norton reiterated her position on the franchise's name to the Post.

"I call on Dan Snyder once again to face that reality, since he does still desperately want to be in the nation's capital," Norton told the Post. "He has got a problem he can't get around -- and he particularly can't get around it today, after the George Floyd killing."

D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser recently said on The Team 980 that it was "past time for the team to deal with [a name that] offends so many people."

In the Washington Post article, D.C. Deputy Mayor John Falcicchio said, "There is no viable path, locally or federally, for the Washington football team to return to Washington, D.C., without first changing the team name."

Snyder has been adamant that he won't change the name. He once told ESPN that "the name really means honor, respect. We sing, 'Hail to the Redskins.' We don't say hurt anybody. We say, 'Hail to the Redskins. Braves on the warpath. Fight for old D.C.'"

 

 

[EricAllenPick6]

5 hours ago, paco said:

But Native American leaders want owner Dan Snyder to change the name

I was curious about this, so I went digging around.

Americans (not Native Americans, just folks in generally) don't think the name is disrespectful to Native Americans:

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11451964/redskins-poll-most-favor-keeping-name-dissent-growing

However, it seems that the majority of Native Americans really do think the name, caricature, headdress, tomahawk chop, etc.i s disrespectful.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/02/04/native-mascots-survey/

My question on this is where is the line?  Why do the "Redskins" have to change their name (and all associated thing), but the Braves keep their name (and that tomahawk chop)?  Cleveland Indians?  Chicago Blackhawks?  Where's the line?  (I actually found a full list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_team_names_and_mascots_derived_from_indigenous_peoples)

 

[paco]

33 minutes ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

I was curious about this, so I went digging around.

Americans (not Native Americans, just folks in generally) don't think the name is disrespectful to Native Americans:

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11451964/redskins-poll-most-favor-keeping-name-dissent-growing

However, it seems that the majority of Native Americans really do think the name, caricature, headdress, tomahawk chop, etc.i s disrespectful.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/02/04/native-mascots-survey/

My question on this is where is the line?  Why do the "Redskins" have to change their name (and all associated thing), but the Braves keep their name (and that tomahawk chop)?  Cleveland Indians?  Chicago Blackhawks?  Where's the line?  (I actually found a full list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_team_names_and_mascots_derived_from_indigenous_peoples)

 

I understand your question and get the slippery slope you are talking about.  And then we will get the obligatory "what about the fighting Irish" comment.  We (not us, the group) had this debate on the old board several times.

 

I will say, that there is a difference using a racial slur vs using a group of people (black hawks, braves, fighting Irish).  To put it in full context, you need to remember that GPM, who wasn't shy about his dislike for anyone not white, renamed the team from Braves to Redskins when he bought and moved them from Boston to DC.  Their old fight song originally ended with "fight for old Dixie". (Funny how Snyder talks about tradition but leaves that out and quotes "Fight for old DC").  So this is just about as much as removing the GPM legacy as it is the name.

 

As for me, I honestly don't care one way or another.  But I harp on it and call them the R-words because I f'n hate their fanbase and it pisses them off  

[EricAllenPick6]

3 minutes ago, paco said:

"fight for old Dixie"

I had no idea that this was true!  

Good writeup here http://www.espn.com/page2/wash/s/closer/020315.html

Is DC really a "southern" town?  For me, it seems sort of borderline.  Baltimore is clearly a northern town.  Richmond is clearly a southern town.  Right between the two is DC...

[paco]

1 hour ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

I had no idea that this was true!  

Good writeup here http://www.espn.com/page2/wash/s/closer/020315.html

Is DC really a "southern" town?  For me, it seems sort of borderline.  Baltimore is clearly a northern town.  Richmond is clearly a southern town.  Right between the two is DC...

Below the Mason Dixon line so yeah.  Back in the day, no Miami, no Carolina, no Dallas.  Speaking of their fight song and Dallas, did you know the whole reason the Cowboys exist is because GPM pissed off the guy who wrote it, so  Clint Murchison bought the rights to the song and told GPM (who was the only owner blocking the expansion Cowboys, since unaimous owner approval was necessary and he was holding onto his monopoly of the south) that he could no longer use the fight song unless he agreed to vote yes on the expansion Cowboys?

 

Quote

When the NFL began considering expansion to Texas, Marshall strongly opposed the move, as he had enjoyed a monopoly in the South for three decades (apart from the one-year appearance of the Dallas Texans in 1952). Potential owner Clint Murchison, who was trying to bring the NFL to Dallas, bought the rights to "Hail to the Redskins" from a disgruntled Breeskin and threatened to prevent Marshall from playing it at games. Marshall agreed to back Murchison's bid, Murchison gave him back the rights to the song, and the Dallas Cowboys were born.

 

Edit:  A longer version of the story, if you care:

Spoiler

Most fans assume that the real Cowboys-Redskins rivalry began the following season, with the arrival in Washington of George "The Future is Now" Allen. True, Allen, by exceeding his unlimited budget and trading off draft choices for seasoned veterans, transformed the 'Skins into a contender almost overnight. But, in fact, the rivalry was in full bloom before the Cowboys even existed.

As the story goes, in 1958 Texas oilman Clint Murchison thought he was finally closing in on his dream of bringing pro football to Dallas. Two previous attempts to purchase teams had failed, but now word reached Murchison that Redskins owner George Preston Marshall was eager to sell his club because the team was doing poorly and Marshall needed money. Imagine! The 'Skins in Dallas! But that blasphemy was not to be. For just as the sale was about to be announced, Marshall demanded a change in terms. Murchison told him to go to hell and canceled the deal.

Coincidently, around this time, Marshall also had a falling out with Barnee Breeskin, the Redskin band director who had written the music to the Redskins fight song. Breeskin, smelling an opportunity for revenge in the strained negotiations, approached Murchison lawyer Tom Webb and asked if he'd like to buy the rights to "Hail to the Redskins." Webb agreed, paying $2,500. He figured this would at least be good for an occasional joke on Marshall.

Meanwhile, feeling abused by Marshall, Murchison decided that his best chance of owning a team was to start one himself. In that endeavor he got support from the chairman of the NFL expansion committee, George Halas. Halas agreed to put the proposition of a Dallas franchise before the NFL owners. Unanimous approval would be required for the proposition to pass.

As the meeting approached, every owner but one was in favor of the proposal. The holdout? George Preston Marshall. Marshall knew that he had strong fan loyalty in the South and was afraid of losing it to Dallas. So he told the other owners he would not vote for a Dallas franchise. Besides, he told them, Murchison was "obnoxious."

But then Marshall found out that Murchison owned the rights to his song. Oh, how Marshall loved that song. Although Breeskin had written the music, Marshall's wife had written the lyrics, so Marshall had made the song the centerpiece of his elaborate pregame and halftime shows. Back then, the Redskin band was a small army in buckskins and headdresses, snappy and well-drilled, featuring a chorus line of prancing Indian princesses. Many fans thought the band, the princesses and Marshall's halftime pageants were more entertaining than the team itself.

When word of Murchison's "dirty trick" leaked out, one Washington columnist wrote that "Taking 'Hail to the Redskins' away from George Marshall would be like denying 'Dixie' to the South, 'Anchors Aweigh' to the Navy, or 'Blue Suede Shoes' to Elvis." So a deal was struck. For Marshall's approval of the Dallas franchise, Murchison returned the song. Thus, Murchison's Cowboys were free to be born.

 

[toolg]

Some people aren't offended my the Redskins name. Some people clearly are. If anybody was picking a mascot for a new team today, nobody would pick the name "Redskins". When did we get all tied up with mascots anyway? A hundred years ago nobody cared. Whatever they called you in the newspaper is what you were called. The Charlotte Hornets moved to New Orleans and they're now the Pelicans. The Browns moved to Baltimore and they're the Ravens. Heck, Washington already did this once: The Bullets became the Wizards. Why are we so stuck up on this? I don't care if some high schools use the same moniker. They're local teams; the Washington Redskins want to be a national brand. Don't be a doofus. Just change the stupid team name already. Easy for me to say... The teams I follow aren't offensive.

1 hour ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Is DC really a "southern" town?  For me, it seems sort of borderline.  Baltimore is clearly a northern town.  Richmond is clearly a southern town.  Right between the two is DC...

Maryland was a "border state" during the Civil War. It had slaves but did not secede from the Union. Parts of rural Southern MD are indistinguishable from its counterparts across the border in VA, culturally and stuff. So while the big cities Baltimore-Washington fit right in with the Philly-NY-Boston megalopolis, other parts of the state are more culturally southern.

I once asked someone from the Deep South where the north-south border is; he said it's between North Carolina-South Carolina. He considers North Carolina a northern state. It's relative, I guess.

[paco]

35 minutes ago, toolg said:

Some people aren't offended my the Redskins name. Some people clearly are. If anybody was picking a mascot for a new team today, nobody would pick the name "Redskins". When did we get all tied up with mascots anyway? A hundred years ago nobody cared. Whatever they called you in the newspaper is what you were called. The Charlotte Hornets moved to New Orleans and they're now the Pelicans. The Browns moved to Baltimore and they're the Ravens. Heck, Washington already did this once: The Bullets became the Wizards. Why are we so stuck up on this? I don't care if some high schools use the same moniker. They're local teams; the Washington Redskins want to be a national brand. Don't be a doofus. Just change the stupid team name already. Easy for me to say... The teams I follow aren't offensive.

Maryland was a "border state" during the Civil War. It had slaves but did not secede from the Union. Parts of rural Southern MD are indistinguishable from its counterparts across the border in VA, culturally and stuff. So while the big cities Baltimore-Washington fit right in with the Philly-NY-Boston megalopolis, other parts of the state are more culturally southern.

I once asked someone from the Deep South where the north-south border is; he said it's between North Carolina-South Carolina. He considers North Carolina a northern state. It's relative, I guess.

You know why Dan Snyder will "and you can use caps" NEVER change the name?

 

$$$

 

He will never do it until he is forced to.  Just like GPM.

[toolg]

@paco When investors start pulling money... $$$
Think of all the new jerseys, t-shirts, hats, memorabilia, etc... $$$

Oh, and DC won't even let them move back into the city until they change the name.

Consider the Washington metro is full of transplants anyway. They're not rooting for the racist team name and buying their stuff. The Redskins could use a new start. I feel like Snyder is throwing away $$$.

[QBhunter58]

Just now, toolg said:

 

Consider the Washington metro is full of transplants anyway. They're not rooting for the racist team name and buying their stuff. The Redskins could use a new start. I feel like Snyder is throwing away $$$.

Completely agree... what else is new. Yeah I would have changed years ago. Especially now, the massive influx of $ from new products alone could have been a boon during this unique 2020 season. He is such an idiot, in more ways than one.

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

1 hour ago, toolg said:

Heck, Washington already did this once: The Bullets became the Wizards.

I've never understood why there hasn't been a furor over the name Wizards, which has a direct connotation to the KKK.

[paco]

1 hour ago, toolg said:

@paco When investors start pulling money... $$$
Think of all the new jerseys, t-shirts, hats, memorabilia, etc... $$$

Oh, and DC won't even let them move back into the city until they change the name.

Consider the Washington metro is full of transplants anyway. They're not rooting for the racist team name and buying their stuff. The Redskins could use a new start. I feel like Snyder is throwing away $$$.

I think you underestimate the % of the fanbase who would be very turned off if they changed the name.  Remember, they haven't won squat for over a generation.  Unless you are over 40, you don't remember their last SuperBowl.  *Those* are the fans that care the most and they are clinging to their faded memories.  Many of them that would be the last straw.  You're not getting new merchandise sales from them.  Trust me, they have a buried thread on ES for this topic (you can't see it unless you have an account) you would be surprised at the comments.

The young ones, they know nothing but apathy.  They are all about DC United (Ironically at RFK) and are coming off the high of the Caps and Nats wins.  Tickets are cheap on the secondary market and they still arn't buying them.  I doubt they'll be running to fanatics for the newly branded jersey.

Finally, the brand itself has intrinsic value.  It's going to take a while for a new one to get there and Lil' Danny Boi isn't going to wait for that.  He wants to coast and buy his yachts.  

[EricAllenPick6]

5 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I've never understood why there hasn't been a furor over the name Wizards, which has a direct connotation to the KKK.

Always hated that name.  I feel like it wasn't that long ago that the name was changed from the Bullets to "silence the violence".  That was clearly effective.  I mean, once people saw that a basketball team was changing it's name they knew that it was time to start cleaning up their act! 

[EricAllenPick6]

As Tony Kornheiser said, "keep the name and change the logo to a potato".

[Diehardfan]

14 hours ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

I was curious about this, so I went digging around.

Americans (not Native Americans, just folks in generally) don't think the name is disrespectful to Native Americans:

https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11451964/redskins-poll-most-favor-keeping-name-dissent-growing

However, it seems that the majority of Native Americans really do think the name, caricature, headdress, tomahawk chop, etc.i s disrespectful.

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/02/04/native-mascots-survey/

My question on this is where is the line?  Why do the "Redskins" have to change their name (and all associated thing), but the Braves keep their name (and that tomahawk chop)?  Cleveland Indians?  Chicago Blackhawks?  Where's the line?  (I actually found a full list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_team_names_and_mascots_derived_from_indigenous_peoples)

 

Yeah, that's the narrative the media pushes. Meanwhile, somewhere in Arizona or some place, the high school football team on a reservation is called the redskins.

[Diehardfan]

9 hours ago, paco said:

Finally, the brand itself has intrinsic value.  It's going to take a while for a new one to get there and Lil' Danny Boi isn't going to wait for that.  He wants to coast and buy his yachts.  

That guy has so much money that I really don't think he cares. He was like 35 years old when he bought the team in 1999 and is a billionaire. He is also a loyal fan along with being the owner. He's told people to pound sand in the past and I hope he does here too.

[FranklinFldEBUpper]

9 hours ago, Diehardfan said:

That guy has so much money that I really don't think he cares. He was like 35 years old when he bought the team in 1999 and is a billionaire. He is also a loyal fan along with being the owner. He's told people to pound sand in the past and I hope he does here too.

I don't disagree. But I'm wondering what will happen the first time a high profile Redskins player refuses to play until they change their name. Because that is definitely going to happen.

[PoconoDon]

19 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

I don't disagree. But I'm wondering what will happen the first time a high profile Redskins player refuses to play until they change their name. Because that is definitely going to happen.

I'd guess that he'll just tell the GM to trade the player. I don't think Snyder would care that much. He'll find another big name FA to sign.

[vikas83]

It’s happening. 
 

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1279067390198927360?s=21

[Dawkins 20]

@paco

Hatchetwound should have plenty to say on this topic.

[EricAllenPick6]

Names being thrown around are pretty lousy.

Warriors, Sentinels, Griffins, Redtails, Pigskins, RedHawks...

No chance any of these names stick, right?  

[ilikepargo]

There is only one possible name:  The Washington Dysfunctionals.

[dawkins4prez]

5 hours ago, EricAllenPick6 said:

Names being thrown around are pretty lousy.

Warriors, Sentinels, Griffins, Redtails, Pigskins, RedHawks...

No chance any of these names stick, right?  

Pigskins!  Pigskins imho would immediately be maybe the coolest team moniker in the entire league.