The official Hurts/Minshew/Stinnett/Strong/EJ Perry containment thread

[ManchesterEagle]

8 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

I don't "full well" know anything about your fandom, but you sure seem to be making this situation out about Hurts to be unusual for this team (or board).  It isn't and that leads me to believe that you didn't experience the other eras that I referenced (or Cunningham which is before the board).  It has been worse before.

I started as a fan with Cunningham as a kid. But because I don't live in the US, I didn't experience that debate. Was on here for McNabb/Wentz/Foles etc. Perhaps my memory has sugar coated, but I don't remember it as unreasonable. 

Regardless of what happened in the past, I am still going to call out people who relentlessly abuse our QB and want to get rid of him no matter the other options. I have no issue with those who think that ultimately his skill set will mean that he can't be the long term answer. They are probably right.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

24 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I started as a fan with Cunningham as a kid. But because I don't live in the US, I didn't experience that debate. Was on here for McNabb/Wentz/Foles etc. Perhaps my memory has sugar coated, but I don't remember it as unreasonable. 

Regardless of what happened in the past, I am still going to call out people who relentlessly abuse our QB and want to get rid of him no matter the other options. I have no issue with those who think that ultimately his skill set will mean that he can't be the long term answer. They are probably right.

Do as you like.  Just recognize that there are options that need to be considered that may not align with or may be more well developed than your opinions. That doesn't make them wrong or "relentlessly abusive of our QB."   It makes them different and opposing views are a key to an open board.  

[pallidrone]

39 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

I started as a fan with Cunningham as a kid. But because I don't live in the US, I didn't experience that debate. Was on here for McNabb/Wentz/Foles etc. Perhaps my memory has sugar coated, but I don't remember it as unreasonable. 

Regardless of what happened in the past, I am still going to call out people who relentlessly abuse our QB and want to get rid of him no matter the other options. I have no issue with those who think that ultimately his skill set will mean that he can't be the long term answer. They are probably right.

I guess you missed the Akili Smith has a better arm or the 'Fiery' Jeff Garcia threads.

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Regardless of what happened in the past, I am still going to call out people who relentlessly abuse our QB and want to get rid of him no matter the other options. I have no issue with those who think that ultimately his skill set will mean that he can't be the long term answer. They are probably right.

Yes, we are, so I don't understand your point if  you acknowledge we are probably right.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Do as you like.  Just recognize that there are options that need to be considered that may not align with or may be more well developed than your opinions. That doesn't make them wrong or "relentlessly abusive of our QB."   It makes them different and opposing views are a key to an open board.  

Please stop relentlessly abusing @ManchesterEagle lets just all agree

43 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

his skill set will mean that he can't be the long term answer. They are probably right.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

6 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Please stop relentlessly abusing @ManchesterEagle lets just all agree

 

Since he projects that Hurts won't be good enough, he should start to "relentlessly abuse" himself for "relentlessly abusing" our QB like that.  

[ManchesterEagle]

2 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Maybe, he start to "relentlessly abuse" himself for "relentlessly abusing" our QB like that.  

 

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Please stop relentlessly abusing @ManchesterEagle lets just all agree

 

Thanks Mike. Not sure what Eagles issue is - I’m just asking for a balanced and realistic view of the QB situation. 

On Hurts my major points are that:

1) he wasn’t as bad last year as people make out.

2) he might get better.

If he doesn’t improve enough we move on.
 

 

[Guest]

Just now, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Thanks Mike. Not sure what Eagles issue is - I’m just asking for a balanced and realistic view of the QB situation. 

On Hurts my major points are that:

1) he wasn’t as bad last year as people make out.

2) he might get better.

If he doesn’t improve enough we move on.
 

 

I disagree.  He was that bad, that is why the coach had to go against what the owner and GM wanted, and his own offensive philosophy and change to a run first team to hide Hurts deficiencies as a passer.  We took that philosophy and beat the bottom feeders of the NFL and got into the playoffs because the league wanted more revenue and added a playoff spot.

To drive home his deficiencies as a passer, Tampa Bay stopped the run knowing that Hurts could not beat them with his arm, and a Tampa Bay coach was filmed on the sidelines during the game saying he can not read a defense.

And you can hope he gets better, but he won't.  He resorts to running, even when there is phantom pressure.  That is who he is, that is who he always has been.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

7 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

Thanks Mike. Not sure what Eagles issue is - I’m just asking for a balanced and realistic view of the QB situation. 

On Hurts my major points are that:

1) he wasn’t as bad last year as people make out.

2) he might get better.

If he doesn’t improve enough we move on.
 

 "I have no issue with those who think that ultimately his skill set will mean that he can't be the long term answer. They are probably right."  Your words copied and pasted.  

I think you missed his point.

[jsdarkstar]

I like Carson Strong to challenge for the # 2 spot. 

[jsb235]

49 minutes ago, downundermike said:

To drive home his deficiencies as a passer, Tampa Bay stopped the run knowing that Hurts could not beat them with his arm, and a Tampa Bay coach was filmed on the sidelines during the game saying he can not read a defense.

I think you are wrong about this. But we will see. By your logic, every team we face next year will be able to stop us from running ball. So where do you predict our rushing offense ends up? Bottom five? Bottom 10? If you can simply scheme to stop our offense from running the ball, how bad do you think we will be?

[Guest]

Just now, jsb235 said:

I think you are wrong about this. But we will see. By your logic, every team we face next year will be able to stop us from running ball. So where do you predict our rushing offense ends up? Bottom five? Bottom 10? If you can simply scheme to stop our offense from running the ball, how bad do you think we will be?

Actually, I am 100% correct about this.

Fact 1.  Eagles went to a run heavy offense to hide the limitations of the QB as a passer.  

Fact 2.  The Eagles owner and GM have said it multiple times, they want a big play passing offense.

Fact 3.  Tampa Bay stopped the run as they were not concerned with Hurts beating them with his arm.

Fact 4.

 

 

[EazyEaglez]

2 hours ago, pallidrone said:

Even before the board was around, the racist hateful things people spewed about Cunningham when he took over as the starting QB over Jaws. He had shown nothing special in the first few games he had played and it took a couple of years before he exploded on the scene, but people were steadfast in their positions.

Heck they booed McNabb before he took one snap. They trashed him nearly every game and even talked about his mom, but they wonder why he’s not gushing all over them. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, pallidrone said:

Even if he had an MVP-like year and was extended, there would be a group of fans that would say it was a fluke and the Eagles were dumb to do it.

Do you think he is capable of having an MVP like year based on his body of work ??

He was not in the top 20 of any major QB passing statistic, and was 19th in QBR, the stat that takes the impact of rushing into account.

For me, at a minimum he needs to duplicate Ryan Tannehill's 2020 season to be the QB moving forward.

[pallidrone]

Just now, downundermike said:

Do you think he is capable of having an MVP like year based on his body of work ??

He was not in the top 20 of any major QB passing statistic, and was 19th in QBR, the stat that takes the impact of rushing into account.

For me, at a minimum he needs to duplicate Ryan Tannehill's 2020 season to be the QB moving forward.

Absolutely. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Absolutely. 

Here are the last 5 MVP's

Rodgers x 2, Jackson, Mahomes, Brady

 

 

Lamar Jackson MVP rushing

 

Hurts would have to take a massive jump to get even close to these numbers.

 

[pallidrone]

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Here are the last 5 MVP's

Rodgers x 2, Jackson, Mahomes, Brady

 

 

Lamar Jackson MVP rushing

 

Hurts would have to take a massive jump to get even close to these numbers.

 

Two things I will say

1) MVP is not always about the numbers. While they are important there are other factors that play into selecting an MVP. It is about the value of that player towards a successful team.

2) While I think he can absolutely become an MVP,  it will be unlikely. Not because I  think that he can't do it, but because the Eagles last MVP came in 1960 with Norm Van Brocklin. Eagle players just do not win MVP titles.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, pallidrone said:

Two things I will say

1) MVP is not always about the numbers. While they are important there are other factors that play into selecting an MVP. It is about the value of that player towards a successful team.

2) While I think he can absolutely become an MVP,  it will be unlikely. Not because I  think that he can't do it, but because the Eagles last MVP came in 1960 with Norm Van Brocklin. Eagle players just do not win MVP titles.

Because you have to have the numbers to back it up.

I don't expect him to ever put up MVP numbers, to be the QB in 2023, I expect Ryan Tannehill's 2020 season as a baseline.  The reason I picked Ryan Tannehill's 2020 season, it was AJ Browns best pro season.

[Vileborg]

Hurts current status is that of a high school QB. He can run and occasionally make a throw. He knows nothing of reading defenses or throwing lanes or route tree concepts. IF we're lucky he's worked on his mechanics and is more accurate this year but he's been exposed as not reading defenses, and being a one read and done QB, so any coordinator worth their salt should be able to spy him and shut him down.

[pallidrone]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Because you have to have the numbers to back it up.

I don't expect him to ever put up MVP numbers, to be the QB in 2023, I expect Ryan Tannehill's 2020 season as a baseline.  The reason I picked Ryan Tannehill's 2020 season, it was AJ Browns best pro season.

That is fair enough.

I think with stability in the offense for the first time in his career, a player (Brown) that he really clicks with, and his work on his throwing motion this offseason, we will see an improved Hurts this season.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

2 minutes ago, Vileborg said:

Hurts current status is that of a high school QB. He can run and occasionally make a throw. He knows nothing of reading defenses or throwing lanes or route tree concepts. IF we're lucky he's worked on his mechanics and is more accurate this year but he's been exposed as not reading defenses, and being a one read and done QB, so any coordinator worth their salt should be able to spy him and shut him down.

He's better than a high school QB, but he is a single threat right now.  If a team goes back to the old school mush rush, spy the QB method with two high safeties, he will have no answer to that.  I don't care how much he advances his skills this offseason.  He has too far to come to defeat that and a good team.

[E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles]

14 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Because you have to have the numbers to back it up.

I don't expect him to ever put up MVP numbers, to be the QB in 2023, I expect Ryan Tannehill's 2020 season as a baseline.  The reason I picked Ryan Tannehill's 2020 season, it was AJ Browns best pro season.

AJ Brown will definitely help him look better, but I still think good teams will keep him in the pocket, confuse him with coverage, and make him throw from there.  It's a solid plan to control the game. That will keep that Tannehill season a mountain too high. 

[jsb235]

48 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Actually, I am 100% correct about this.

Fact 1.  Eagles went to a run heavy offense to hide the limitations of the QB as a passer.  

Fact 2.  The Eagles owner and GM have said it multiple times, they want a big play passing offense.

Fact 3.  Tampa Bay stopped the run as they were not concerned with Hurts beating them with his arm.

Fact 4.

 

 

Okay, since you think you are 100 percent right, then where do you think our rushing offense will rank next season? If every team will have an easy time against our offense with Hurts at QB - stop the run and make him pass - where do you think the running game will rank? Bottom 5? Bottom 10?

You are the one saying it is easy to stop this offense with Hurts at qb. So where do you think our running game will rank based on the fact that every team will be selling out to stop the run?

[pallidrone]

19 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

He's better than a high school QB, but he is a single threat right now.  If a team goes back to the old school mush rush, spy the QB method with two high safeties, he will have no answer to that.  I don't care how much he advances his skills this offseason.  He has too far to come to defeat that and a good team.

I think this is what frustrates me the most when it comes to those that are against Hurts. Most QBs that come into the NFL nowadays have no idea on how to read a defense and a good portion of them are one-read QBs. Patrick Mahomes even stated that it was not even until 2019 till he kind of understood how to read a defense and that he is still trying to learn how to be better at it. That was AFTER his MVP season. He relied solely on his skill and trusted the players around him to make him look better. Rasul Douglas had no idea on how to break down tape or watch film. It wasn't until he got to Green Bay before someone showed him how to do that properly, and he became a much, much better player.

This notion that a NFL player can not get better at the mental part of the game is mindboggling to me. Why are people so steadfast in the thought that a player can't process things around him a bit quicker, when so many players say that it takes a few years before the game starts to slow down for them?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Okay, since you think you are 100 percent right, then where do you think our rushing offense will rank next season? If every team will have an easy time against our offense with Hurts at QB - stop the run and make him pass - where do you think the running game will rank? Bottom 5? Bottom 10?

You are the one saying it is easy to stop this offense with Hurts at qb. So where do you think our running game will rank based on the fact that every team will be selling out to stop the run?

That will depend on a multitude of factors.

 

#1.  If the team is committed to the high flying passing offense that the owner, GM and HC all want, it will probably rank 11-20.  The difference between 11 and 20 last year was 14 yards per game.

#2.  If Hurts struggles as a passer, and the team begrudgingly goes back to run heavy, it may crack the top 10, but teams will adjust quicker to the change.

#3.  Part of the reason our rushing offense ranked so high, is we were one of 4 teams with more than 500 rushing attempts.