jsb235 Posted May 2, 2022 Author Share Posted May 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, downundermike said: That will depend on a multitude of factors. #1. If the team is committed to the high flying passing offense that the owner, GM and HC all want, it will probably rank 11-20. The difference between 11 and 20 last year was 14 yards per game. #2. If Hurts struggles as a passer, and the team begrudgingly goes back to run heavy, it may crack the top 10, but teams will adjust quicker to the change. #3. Part of the reason our rushing offense ranked so high, is we were one of 4 teams with more than 500 rushing attempts. I don't understand. You are saying we can't run the ball since the Bucs game proved we can't run the ball. Now you are saying it depends on "factors." The only factor is that you are claiming the Bucs game provided irrefutable evidence that an offense led by Hurts can't be effective in the NFL, either running the ball or passing. So either what you said is true, and this will be a bottom of the league offense, or what you said is false, and it won't be. So which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, jsb235 said: I don't understand. You are saying we can't run the ball since the Bucs game proved we can't run the ball. Now you are saying it depends on "factors." The only factor is that you are claiming the Bucs game provided irrefutable evidence that an offense led by Hurts can't be effective in the NFL, either running the ball or passing. So either what you said is true, and this will be a bottom of the league offense, or what you said is false, and it won't be. So which is it? Are you able to see the entire picture ?? We were thoroughly dominated by Tampa Bay, they stopped the run, dared Hurts to beat them and he could not. They did it by stopping our top ranked rushing offense. Final total yardage, Bucs 349, Eagles 339. Was the game really that close ?? When teams get blown out, they can pile up second half garbage time yards, which is exactly what the Eagles did. Eagles had 103 yards in the first half, if you do the math for that over a season, we would be a bottom 5 offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 55 minutes ago, pallidrone said: I think this is what frustrates me the most when it comes to those that are against Hurts. Most QBs that come into the NFL nowadays have no idea on how to read a defense and a good portion of them are one-read QBs. Patrick Mahomes even stated that it was not even until 2019 till he kind of understood how to read a defense and that he is still trying to learn how to be better at it. That was AFTER his MVP season. He relied solely on his skill and trusted the players around him to make him look better. Rasul Douglas had no idea on how to break down tape or watch film. It wasn't until he got to Green Bay before someone showed him how to do that properly, and he became a much, much better player. This notion that a NFL player can not get better at the mental part of the game is mindboggling to me. Why are people so steadfast in the thought that a player can't process things around him a bit quicker, when so many players say that it takes a few years before the game starts to slow down for them? You are making my point. I didn't say he couldn't learn it. I stated that we cant expect him to learn it fast enough (in one offseason) because of how far that he has to come. Note the "right now" and "this offseason" portion of my comment. He's never developed that skill set to a large degree, especially with a year of Riley playground Air Raid offense. That sounds alot like Mahomes, except that PM entered with prerequisite passing skills and Hurts did not. The problem with Hurts isn't just one thing...it's alot of basic skills to even get to complex ones. That's why I don't expect a major jump THIS YEAR and don't feel like waiting for years to find out. Ask yourself this: How long are you willing to wait for these skills to develop? Are you willing to extend him without these skills being drastically improved? Sorry if this concept frustrates you so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted May 2, 2022 Author Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 minute ago, downundermike said: Are you able to see the entire picture ?? We were thoroughly dominated by Tampa Bay, they stopped the run, dared Hurts to beat them and he could not. They did it by stopping our top ranked rushing offense. Final total yardage, Bucs 349, Eagles 339. Was the game really that close ?? When teams get blown out, they can pile up second half garbage time yards, which is exactly what the Eagles did. Eagles had 103 yards in the first half, if you do the math for that over a season, we would be a bottom 5 offense. I think there was another factor in that game. The Bucs piled up all their yardage in the first and third quarters. The Eagles put up all of their yardage in the second and fourth quarters. It wasn't garbage time. It was the fact that the weather conditions made it very difficult to move the ball in one direction. You have looked at the box score and extrapolated something that isn't true. We outgained the Bucs by a two to one margin in the second quarter. Does that mean Hurts was twice as good as Brady in the second quarter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 7 minutes ago, jsb235 said: I think there was another factor in that game. The Bucs piled up all their yardage in the first and third quarters. The Eagles put up all of their yardage in the second and fourth quarters. It wasn't garbage time. It was the fact that the weather conditions made it very difficult to move the ball in one direction. You have looked at the box score and extrapolated something that isn't true. We outgained the Bucs by a two to one margin in the second quarter. Does that mean Hurts was twice as good as Brady in the second quarter? Such a clown. We got 47.2% of our yards on the last 3 possessions after it was 31-0. We got 100% of our points on the last 3 possessions after it was 31-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb235 Posted May 2, 2022 Author Share Posted May 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, downundermike said: Such a clown. We got 47.2% of our yards on the last 3 possessions after it was 31-0. We got 100% of our points on the last 3 possessions after it was 31-0. Yards and points through the first three quarters. First - Tampa Bay 152 yards, 14 points. Eagles, 17 yards, 0 points. Second - Tampa Bay 47 yards, 3 points, Eagles, 86 yards, 0 points. Third - Tampa Bay 104 yards, 14 points, Eagles 51 yards, 0 points Do you see any pattern here? Plus, the Eagles only had two drives in the second quarter. Your dumb stats are exactly that, dumb. Yes, Hurts could have played better. But to completely ignore the fact that Brady hardly moved the ball in the second quarter, despite being possibly the greatest qb in history and being on a team with a far greater amount of talent on it, is just incredible, even for someone as obtuse as you. And you are telling on yourself. Your whole schtick is that the Bucs somehow managed to come up with a secret formula to stop Hurts, when it was clearly the weather having a huge impact on the game. But you are the one who will look stupid. This is going to be a top 10 offense next year. The question isn't whether or not Hurts can play at a decent level. That was decided when we made the playoffs. The only question is whether we can be an elite offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 2 minutes ago, jsb235 said: Your dumb stats are exactly that, dumb. Nope, these are facts. We got 47.2% of our yards on the last 3 possessions after it was 31-0. We got 100% of our points on the last 3 possessions after it was 31-0. And if you don't like my opinion of Hurts, why do you continue to respond. You think he is the future, I do not. It seems to really hurt your feelings when people to view Hurts the same as you. I do not see anything that tells me he is the future, and plenty of people share that opinion. I still see the same flaws from his draft profile. Weaknesses Has issues sustaining rhythm as passer with so many off-schedule throws Inconsistent patience allowing routes to develop Slow recognition of early throw opportunities Leaves slants and crossers behind targets Misses checkdowns and opts for harder throws Deep arm dip into elongated release Forced speedsters at OU and Alabama to slow for deep throws Needs to get better at trusting his pocket Quick to drop his eyes when pressure mounts More likely to void pocket than climb, scan and throw from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infam Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 9 minutes ago, downundermike said: I do not see anything that tells me he is the future, and plenty of people share that opinion. I still see the same flaws from his draft profile. Yeah! Like Tom Brady the bum. Just look at his terrible draft profiles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidrone Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 58 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said: You are making my point. I didn't say he couldn't learn it. I stated that we cant expect him to learn it fast enough (in one offseason) because of how far that he has to come. Note the "right now" and "this offseason" portion of my comment. He's never developed that skill set to a large degree, especially with a year of Riley playground Air Raid offense. That sounds alot like Mahomes, except that PM entered with prerequisite passing skills and Hurts did not. The problem with Hurts isn't just one thing...it's alot of basic skills to even get to complex ones. That's why I don't expect a major jump THIS YEAR and don't feel like waiting for years to find out. Ask yourself this: How long are you willing to wait for these skills to develop? Are you willing to extend him without these skills being drastically improved? Sorry if this concept frustrates you so much. How long would I wait? Depends. Probably 2-3 years or more with the right guy. Depends on how much the extension is worth. Is it top of the QB heap money? Then no. Is it the middle of the pack? Then yes, I probably would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 18 minutes ago, pallidrone said: How long would I wait? Depends. Probably 2-3 years or more with the right guy. Depends on how much the extension is worth. Is it top of the QB heap money? Then no. Is it the middle of the pack? Then yes, I probably would. 2 to 3 more years? Or total? Hurts gets this year and maybe even next, but I'm not extending him until he proves it more than he has. 3 or 4 years is plenty of time for a guy playing this much. I have serious doubts that he develops that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike030270 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said: You are making my point. I didn't say he couldn't learn it. I stated that we cant expect him to learn it fast enough (in one offseason) because of how far that he has to come. Note the "right now" and "this offseason" portion of my comment. He's never developed that skill set to a large degree, especially with a year of Riley playground Air Raid offense. That sounds alot like Mahomes, except that PM entered with prerequisite passing skills and Hurts did not. The problem with Hurts isn't just one thing...it's alot of basic skills to even get to complex ones. That's why I don't expect a major jump THIS YEAR and don't feel like waiting for years to find out. Ask yourself this: How long are you willing to wait for these skills to develop? Are you willing to extend him without these skills being drastically improved? Sorry if this concept frustrates you so much. What should scare everyone is Howie has a history of giving contracts for potential instead of what they're doing now 1 hour ago, downundermike said: Nope, these are facts. We got 47.2% of our yards on the last 3 possessions after it was 31-0. We got 100% of our points on the last 3 possessions after it was 31-0. And if you don't like my opinion of Hurts, why do you continue to respond. You think he is the future, I do not. It seems to really hurt your feelings when people to view Hurts the same as you. I do not see anything that tells me he is the future, and plenty of people share that opinion. I still see the same flaws from his draft profile. It's glaring that he still has those weaknesses. Even more so that he has those when he's been around coaches all his life. Why weren't these fixed back in college days or even high school? Plus didn't we bring in a QB coach specifically for Hurts? Seems like he's been given a lot of support but still has some glaring issues. When do you say it can't be fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CouchKing Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, Mike030270 said: What should scare everyone is Howie has a history of giving contracts for potential instead of what they're doing now It's glaring that he still has those weaknesses. Even more so that he has those when he's been around coaches all his life. Why weren't these fixed back in college days or even high school? Plus didn't we bring in a QB coach specifically for Hurts? Seems like he's been given a lot of support but still has some glaring issues. When do you say it can't be fixed? When you have a better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike030270 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 minute ago, CouchKing said: When you have a better option. We have better options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CouchKing Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 1 minute ago, Mike030270 said: We have better options Let's see what they do. Doubt they make a change. Not until Hurts sheets the bed or is injured. The problem is the "hurts is our guy" statements they made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike030270 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, CouchKing said: Let's see what they do. Doubt they make a change. Not until Hurts sheets the bed or is injured. The problem is the "hurts is our guy" statements they made. I doubt it happens to. They just handed the job to Hurts They've said things and done complete 180s before though I'm excited about the preseason games 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleJoe8 Posted May 2, 2022 Share Posted May 2, 2022 7 hours ago, EazyEaglez said: Heck they booed McNabb before he took one snap. They trashed him nearly every game and even talked about his mom, but they wonder why he’s not gushing all over them. McNabb obviously got booed at the draft, but he also got a huge ovation in week two when he came in the game against Tampa, and in all my time as a season ticket holder, he always got a loud ovation when the offense was introduced, and he even got one when he was introduced as a Redskin. Saying he got trashed every game is a major exaggeration. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidrone Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said: 2 to 3 more years? Or total? Hurts gets this year and maybe even next, but I'm not extending him until he proves it more than he has. 3 or 4 years is plenty of time for a guy playing this much. I have serious doubts that he develops that much. I think the first year any QB starts is always rocky. In year two they should get better and some QBs are better than others in their second year of starting. In year three they should have a good grasp of the offense and a better feel for the defense. If they get hurt, that can adjust those timelines. If they did not start for a majority of their rookie season, that can adjust the timelines. The player themselves, depending on where they are in development from college to the pros can adjust that timeline. Some QBs look great right out of the gate, while others take some time. I feel in this day and age of instant gratification we expect players to be stars right away, especially QBs. We have no patience for players to develop naturally. I also feel that the hardest position to gauge is the QB position and that is more than just skill. How does the QB deal with coaching, the media, and the other players on the team? Can he learn a playbook and be a semi-offensive coordinator on the field? Does he lead by example and can he lead a locker room filled with multi-millionaires? Throwing a ball and reading a defense can be learned. How to lead people is an innate trait. That is why some physically gifted players fail and some mediocre players succeed. If you have a QB that understands the mental aspects of the game and embraces them, then you spend the time on developing the other parts of his game. That is how I feel at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CouchKing Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 1 hour ago, pallidrone said: I think the first year any QB starts is always rocky. In year two they should get better and some QBs are better than others in their second year of starting. In year three they should have a good grasp of the offense and a better feel for the defense. If they get hurt, that can adjust those timelines. If they did not start for a majority of their rookie season, that can adjust the timelines. The player themselves, depending on where they are in development from college to the pros can adjust that timeline. Some QBs look great right out of the gate, while others take some time. I feel in this day and age of instant gratification we expect players to be stars right away, especially QBs. We have no patience for players to develop naturally. I also feel that the hardest position to gauge is the QB position and that is more than just skill. How does the QB deal with coaching, the media, and the other players on the team? Can he learn a playbook and be a semi-offensive coordinator on the field? Does he lead by example and can he lead a locker room filled with multi-millionaires? Throwing a ball and reading a defense can be learned. How to lead people is an innate trait. That is why some physically gifted players fail and some mediocre players succeed. If you have a QB that understands the mental aspects of the game and embraces them, then you spend the time on developing the other parts of his game. That is how I feel at least. We have no idea if Howie Roseman and team have a timeline for Hurts or how long they will give him. There are no guarantees that 2022 or 2023 belong to Hurts. If the Eagles want to make a change, they will. They are not obligated to stick with Hurts for any amount of time. Intangibles like leadership are not more important than actual skills. They can get many of those intangibles from the next guy as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidrone Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, CouchKing said: We have no idea if Howie Roseman and team have a timeline for Hurts or how long they will give him. There are no guarantees that 2022 or 2023 belong to Hurts. If the Eagles want to make a change, they will. They are not obligated to stick with Hurts for any amount of time. Intangibles like leadership are not more important than actual skills. They can get many of those intangibles from the next guy as well. My comment was my personal opinion, not my thoughts on what the Eagles are doing or thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 20 minutes ago, CouchKing said: They can get many of those intangibles from the next guy as well. Sure can. The UDFA QB we signed sacrificed his rehab, strapped on a knee brace and played because he "owed it to his team mates" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 2 hours ago, pallidrone said: I think the first year any QB starts is always rocky. In year two they should get better and some QBs are better than others in their second year of starting. In year three they should have a good grasp of the offense and a better feel for the defense. If they get hurt, that can adjust those timelines. If they did not start for a majority of their rookie season, that can adjust the timelines. The player themselves, depending on where they are in development from college to the pros can adjust that timeline. Some QBs look great right out of the gate, while others take some time. I feel in this day and age of instant gratification we expect players to be stars right away, especially QBs. We have no patience for players to develop naturally. I also feel that the hardest position to gauge is the QB position and that is more than just skill. How does the QB deal with coaching, the media, and the other players on the team? Can he learn a playbook and be a semi-offensive coordinator on the field? Does he lead by example and can he lead a locker room filled with multi-millionaires? Throwing a ball and reading a defense can be learned. How to lead people is an innate trait. That is why some physically gifted players fail and some mediocre players succeed. If you have a QB that understands the mental aspects of the game and embraces them, then you spend the time on developing the other parts of his game. That is how I feel at least. I agree for the most part. However, In this CBA, a second round QB gets a maximum of 4 years of low cost rookie contract (with no option) to get it right or the team has a huge decision on a 2nd high price contract. Whether he plays early or not, that timeline doesn't change. That is the urgency with Hurts as we hit year 3 of his development. IMO, he has to show ALOT this year. If he does well, then he should have to reprove it in year 4. If he's bad, move on and pick up another 1st round rookie contract (4+1 option). We just can't forget that there are major cap and team building ramifications going forward tied to him and that has to play a part in the decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CouchKing Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 EJ Perry: Out of here Eagles reportedly lose UDFA QB, gain UDFA pass rusher (msn.com) Story by Brandon Lee Gowton of SB NAtion QB EJ Perry going to Jags instead of Eagles Eagles add UDFA EDGE Ali Fayad of Western Michigan Damn you Doug Pederson...stealing our UDFA QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MF POON Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 On 5/2/2022 at 10:46 AM, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said: "I have no issue with those who think that ultimately his skill set will mean that he can't be the long term answer. They are probably right." Your words copied and pasted. I think you missed his point. Yeah, I think he's pointing out that you're going out of your way to be rude when he's simply stating his experience. It's the "respect my take, but I'll mock yours" attitude that you're exuding. I've been around on these boards since the McNabb era and I agree that the level of criticism regarding Hurts isn't anything worse than we've seen before. It does however highlight the issue with how certain QB's are criticized harshly, while others are given a more "wait and see" approach, or given the benefit of the doubt. Anyhow, at least we have one thread for the Hurts haters circle jerk to take place in 😃 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CouchKing Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 On 5/3/2022 at 2:54 PM, MF POON said: Yeah, I think he's pointing out that you're going out of your way to be rude when he's simply stating his experience. It's the "respect my take, but I'll mock yours" attitude that you're exuding. I've been around on these boards since the McNabb era and I agree that the level of criticism regarding Hurts isn't anything worse than we've seen before. It does however highlight the issue with how certain QB's are criticized harshly, while others are given a more "wait and see" approach, or given the benefit of the doubt. Anyhow, at least we have one thread for the Hurts haters circle jerk to take place in 😃 Hurts Huggers are always upset when there is another QB on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 23 hours ago, CouchKing said: Hurts Huggers are always upset when there is another QB on the roster. Just don't ask questions about their love or challenge their thought process or you're rude here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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