3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Scrappy overachievers are far easier to like, no doubt. Embiid has tons of heart

harden is a mercenary and always has been. 

I don't hate Embid at all and yes, he does have a ton of heart.  I'm extremely disappointed with the outcome and a lot of that falls on his shoulders.  His response hasn't been the greatest either.  I think he lacks the killer instinct.   

I hate Harden.  Never wanted him here.  

18 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

Not a good 12 months for Philly teams in their playoffs is it?

Actually... it was.  Getting to the Super Bowl and World Series is very good.  Disappointing how both ended, especially the Super Bowl, given that they had a 10 point lead at halftime... but it was still a great season.  The Sixers, on the other hand, did exactly what they were being built NOT to do.  Yet another embarrassing second round exit was what they were built to avoid.

10 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

Scrappy overachievers are far easier to like, no doubt. Embiid has tons of heart

harden is a mercenary and always has been. 

I could give you that he has 'heart'... what he doesn't have is the killer instinct, or the complete fear of losing.  He seems to be ok with it.  He's not driven to succeed because of an overwhelming fear of failure.  He seemed quite content to allow anyone else on the team to have the ball in their hands down the stretch in Game 6.  

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Actually... it was.  Getting to the Super Bowl and World Series is very good.  Disappointing how both ended, especially the Super Bowl, given that they had a 10 point lead at halftime... but it was still a great season.  The Sixers, on the other hand, did exactly what they were being built NOT to do.  Yet another embarrassing second round exit was what they were built to avoid.

And that's it. No team managed to get the big win.  Playoffs are nice, winning it all is better. 

Just now, UK Eagle said:

And that's it. No team managed to get the big win.  Playoffs are nice, winning it all is better. 

No one expected the Eagles to make the Super Bowl when the season started.  They exceeded expectations.  That's a successful season.

No one expected the Phillies to make the World Series when the season started.  They also exceeded expectations. Another successful season.

The Sixers, in contract, did the thing that everyone feared that they would. 

 

If 'success' for any given season is measured only by winning the championship, then there's only ever 1 successful team in any given year for a sport.  That's a pretty narrow definition.  The benchmarks along the way of the climb to get to the top of the mountain should be viewed as success.   This upcoming season the Eagles are pretty much in a 'Super Bowl or bust' mode now.  Anything less will be a disappointment, but last year was not.  Same goes for the Phillies this year.  But again, last season was not.  

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No one expected the Eagles to make the Super Bowl when the season started.  They exceeded expectations.  That's a successful season.

No one expected the Phillies to make the World Series when the season started.  They also exceeded expectations. Another successful season.

The Sixers, in contract, did the thing that everyone feared that they would. 

 

If 'success' for any given season is measured only by winning the championship, then there's only ever 1 successful team in any given year for a sport.  That's a pretty narrow definition.  The benchmarks along the way of the climb to get to the top of the mountain should be viewed as success.   This upcoming season the Eagles are pretty much in a 'Super Bowl or bust' mode now.  Anything less will be a disappointment, but last year was not.  Same goes for the Phillies this year.  But again, last season was not.  

Still didn't win though, expectations or not. Good enough to get there is good enough to win.  Happy to turn up is something teams like Panthers do

 

 

13 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I could give you that he has 'heart'... what he doesn't have is the killer instinct, or the complete fear of losing.  He seems to be ok with it.  He's not driven to succeed because of an overwhelming fear of failure.  He seemed quite content to allow anyone else on the team to have the ball in their hands down the stretch in Game 6.  

Exactly.  Embid is a playful, nice guy and I think for some, that personality gives him a pass. But you're 100% correct in saying he seems to be OK with losing.  The same old "we're going to use this loss and learn from it" only goes so far.  

This is some high-grade Copium as the kids say. (Do the kids still say that?)

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

Exactly.  Embid is a playful, nice guy and I think for some, that personality gives him a pass. But you're 100% correct in saying he seems to be OK with losing.  The same old "we're going to use this loss and learn from it" only goes so far.  

Giannis is one of the most competitive athletes in the NBA right now. And even he had a press conference lecturing the media on how losing this early in the playoffs does not mean it was a disappointing season. I never would have expected that from him at all. But at least hes won a championship. Hes earned a little leeway on getting in front of the media and saying something fans dont want to hear.

Embiid does it every year and has yet to win anything. Really hasnt even come close to winning anything either. His team still has not advanced past the 2nd round of the playoffs. They havent even made it to the eastern conference finals yet, let alone the NBA finals.

From back in the Embiid/Simmons years when theyd show up flat and lose to bad teams- then admit they didnt think they had to play hard against that team.

To crying after the playoff loss that rubbed fans the wrong way.

To throwing teammates under the bus last year and demanding players who are tough like PJ Tucker. 

To getting PJ Tucker, and added toughness in spades beyond that by bringing in House, Melton, and Harrell. And then still throwing teammates under the bus this year. 

 

He never shows up in the playoffs. And then always makes excuses.

 

14 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

Still didn't win though, expectations or not. Good enough to get there is good enough to win.  Happy to turn up is something teams like Panthers do

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.   If you were disappointed with the Eagles season, on the whole, I feel bad for you.  It was a helluva ride.

36 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I don't hate Embid at all and yes, he does have a ton of heart.  I'm extremely disappointed with the outcome and a lot of that falls on his shoulders.  His response hasn't been the greatest either.  I think he lacks the killer instinct.   

I hate Harden.  Never wanted him here.  

The question is where do they go from here?

bringing Harden back is likely their best shot to compete/win in the near term. Harris probably wont net too much in return sadly

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

This is some high-grade Copium as the kids say. (Do the kids still say that?)

I will always suspect that Embiid was ready to quit on his team and pout at home had he not won that award this year.

He injured the knee, and it was supposedly a minor sprain. He was potentially coming back in THAT series. Then, he might not be ready for the beginning of the next series. Then the injury was worse than initially believed to be. 

Then he won the award, and he came back immediately and looked absolutely fine. And even took off the brace quickly. Very suspicious for a player who has been known to become depressed and not play as hard in the past. He admitted to being depressed and feel like quitting basketball with JJ Redick left. He has played worse, and moped when he hasnt won the MVP in the past. I firmly believe he was about to do it again and just shut himself down for the season with that injury as his excuse.

 

Just now, ToastJenkins said:

The question is where do they go from here?

bringing Harden back is likely their best shot to compete/win in the near term. Harris probably wont net too much in return sadly

I think there's only one good answer. 

 

4 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

The question is where do they go from here?

bringing Harden back is likely their best shot to compete/win in the near term. Harris probably wont net too much in return sadly

From here, they will start to decline.  Not much they can do about it either.  They have virtually nothing left to try to build with and don't have the young players to ascend into bigger roles.  

The NBA screwed them by intervening and forcing out Hinkie and forcing Colangelo into the discussion.  Then he screwed the Sixers by putting his son in place.  And he screwed the Sixers with his horrific moves... then they screwed themselves letting Brown and Brand make the next row of moves... and the rest is history.

19 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

This is some high-grade Copium as the kids say. (Do the kids still say that?)

Add that to the list of stupid things that ESP has put out for public consumption.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

From here, they will start to decline.  Not much they can do about it either.  They have virtually nothing left to try to build with and don't have the young players to ascend into bigger roles.  

The NBA screwed them by intervening and forcing out Hinkie and forcing Colangelo into the discussion.  Then he screwed the Sixers by putting his son in place.  And he screwed the Sixers with his horrific moves... then they screwed themselves letting Brown and Brand make the next row of moves... and the rest is history.

They also screwed themselves by hitting Morey and Glen

9 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think there's only one good answer. 

 

Whoa ... is that from yesterday?  

I'm surprised he's not at the Cardinals facility.  This guy must really love Philly.

24 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Exactly.  Embid is a playful, nice guy and I think for some, that personality gives him a pass. But you're 100% correct in saying he seems to be OK with losing.  The same old "we're going to use this loss and learn from it" only goes so far.  

They did tests on rats.   

They withheld food from the rats... then wafted the scent of cheese in front of them to measure how much they pulled to try to get to the cheese.    

Then they did the same tests, but this time they wafted the scent of cheese from one side, and they wafted the scent of a fox from the opposite side, and the rats pulled even harder.  

 

Some players have the desire for success.  Others have the desire for success, but also the fear of failure.  It is those that have both that far more often outpace the others. 

3 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

They also screwed themselves by hitting Morey and Glen

Yup.  Agreed.  The series of errors by this franchise is amazing.  Nothing positive has really come around since Josh Harris bought the team.  The Bynam fiasco was just the beginning of it all. 

15 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Exactly.  Embid is a playful, nice guy and I think for some, that personality gives him a pass. But you're 100% correct in saying he seems to be OK with losing.  The same old "we're going to use this loss and learn from it" only goes so far.  

Coaching matters

21 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think there's only one good answer. 

 

I get the temptation to gut the roster, but the return on trading embiid and harris will be nickles on the dollar

Is it Jay Wright time now in Philly?  

1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said:

I get the temptation to gut the roster, but the return on trading embiid and harris will be nickles on the dollar

Has the reining MVP ever been traded? 

I don’t like to diagnose the problem.  I don’t know enough about Embiid personally.  It’s just necessary to acknowledge the problem.  Is he a bad leader?  Does he lack killer instinct?  Did he care more about MVP?  I really don’t know.  We can’t be certain to make those accusations.  Health definitely has been a huge (but perhaps not comprehensive) factor in this.

But the bottom line is that playoff Embiid <<<<< regular season Embiid.  Playoff Embiid is #2 on a championship team.

Im not going to hate him for it or question character/leadership etc.  It’s as simple as evaluating a jump shot or an offensive tackle’s pass protection.  Playoff Embiid is the second best player on any championship team and is not someone you rely on carrying you to wins.

They might not even have the assets to improve the supporting cast, but they DEFINITELY lack the assets to add an alpha to carry the load.

 

17 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

They did tests on rats.   

They withheld food from the rats... then wafted the scent of cheese in front of them to measure how much they pulled to try to get to the cheese.    

Then they did the same tests, but this time they wafted the scent of cheese from one side, and they wafted the scent of a fox from the opposite side, and the rats pulled even harder.  

 

Some players have the desire for success.  Others have the desire for success, but also the fear of failure.  It is those that have both that far more often outpace the others. 

Ben Simmons is so afraid of failing he faked COVID to avoid playing.