When you change the D from 3-4 to 4-3 it’s well understood that’s a three year process….the best DCs given talent can make it serviceable in two. Some of that I grant you is needing some different personnel. 
  So bad field vision and judgements. First…when you have a good playcall that’s made easy. Bad playcall what happens? Like if the D anticipates what the O is doing it obviously makes it much more difficult versus a play that catches them off guard or is the right counter. Both those areas you highlight to me go hand in hand with an understanding of the O. Which is new. How do you seperate field vision from an understanding of where everybody will be going in the different O? NFL QBs gotta rely on anticipation. How do seperate making the right decisions from being in a new O? Isn’t that just a given that there has to be a learning curve. Just crazy to actually expect TC with no preseason and one joint practice to be enough to have mastered such a new O. Heck…takes years. 

I'm sorry Ham,but Hurts lost his job in college and had to transfer to play. He's not alone there but it's still a fact. He could not adapt enough to keep his college job and lost it. It tells me Hurts wants to play the Hurts way and isn't really open to learning new things nor making them work. You don't have to make a big deal out of it,but you can make people bow to your wishes because you aren't changing and while Hurts is mild mannered,you can still make things hard for people that want you to change on purpose or not. If it's on purpose Hurts will nevr learn Moores offense. if it's not on purpose it's because be can't execute it. You decide which it is. Hurts knows he is the QB for awhile and you do it his way or not at all

6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

When you change the D from 3-4 to 4-3 it’s well understood that’s a three year process….the best DCs given talent can make it serviceable in two. Some of that I grant you is needing some different personnel. 
  So bad field vision and judgements. First…when you have a good playcall that’s made easy. Bad playcall what happens? Like if the D anticipates what the O is doing it obviously makes it much more difficult versus a play that catches them off guard or is the right counter. Both those areas you highlight to me go hand in hand with an understanding of the O. Which is new. How do you seperate field vision from an understanding of where everybody will be going in the different O? NFL QBs gotta rely on anticipation. How do seperate making the right decisions from being in a new O? Isn’t that just a given that there has to be a learning curve. Just crazy to actually expect TC with no preseason and one joint practice to be enough to have mastered such a new O. Heck…takes years. 

So if it's a 3 year process don't rap Siri,he needs 2 more years LOL

Mahomes has been in ARs O the whole time…still learning stuff. I mean this actually is just further proof condemning Siri. Always trying to short cut to short term success and goals. He’s been entrusted developing our franchise QB this whole time. That’s the guy we’re deciding to short cut developing to win now …from the beggining. At what point should we be willing to accept some mistakes and learning losses? Seems to me they’ve come anyway from lack of spending the rough periods everyone suffers developing.

7 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

When you change the D from 3-4 to 4-3 it’s well understood that’s a three year process….the best DCs given talent can make it serviceable in two. Some of that I grant you is needing some different personnel. 
  So bad field vision and judgements. First…when you have a good playcall that’s made easy. Bad playcall what happens? Like if the D anticipates what the O is doing it obviously makes it much more difficult versus a play that catches them off guard or is the right counter. Both those areas you highlight to me go hand in hand with an understanding of the O. Which is new. How do you seperate field vision from an understanding of where everybody will be going in the different O? NFL QBs gotta rely on anticipation. How do seperate making the right decisions from being in a new O? Isn’t that just a given that there has to be a learning curve. Just crazy to actually expect TC with no preseason and one joint practice to be enough to have mastered such a new O. Heck…takes years. 

You can't ignore wide open receivers for one thing. Any decent NFL QB would have seen and made both those throws. It's a big problem with Hurts

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

He’s been entrusted developing our franchise QB this whole time.

Nope,that is not the HC's job dude. Get that out of your head. The HC;s job is to put the players in positions to succeed(aka play calling)

6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Mahomes has been in ARs O the whole time…still learning stuff. I mean this actually is just further proof condemning Siri. Always trying to short cut to short term success and goals. He’s been entrusted developing our franchise QB this whole time. That’s the guy we’re deciding to short cut developing to win now …from the beggining. At what point should we be willing to accept some mistakes and learning losses? Seems to me they’ve come anyway from lack of spending the rough periods everyone suffers developing.

I also agree that Siri is not learning or changing who he is. He will make bonehead calls at bad times. He IS getting better at in game adjustments,but he needs to pull back on the bonehead stuff. You know we all scratch our heads sometimes LOL

Just now, GreenbleedinNC said:

So if it's a 3 year process don't rap Siri,he needs 2 more years LOL

Frankly we’ve been exposed to how hard it’s been to overcome Siri’s O very much. Steichen made it work. But it felt like more a hinderance than helping. Look I understand and am saying that Hurts not being fully developed coming in as a pro has always been a factor. But just can’t understand how bigger goal progress is made if you don’t suffer through learning it. Had Kelce doing a bunch. Ok…I get that. But just because the young QB isn’t ready and doing these things it still has to be taught. 

1 minute ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I also agree that Siri is nor learning or changing who he is. He will make bonehead calls at bad times. He IS getting better at in game adjustments,but he needs to pull back on the bonehead stuff. You know we all scratch our heads sometimes LOL

I also scratch my head at what Hurts does-TOO often

4 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

You can't ignore wide open receivers for one thing. Any decent NFL QB would have seen and made both those throws. It's a big problem with Hurts

Again…you are just saying hey see the whole field and hit the open guy. I’m more pointing toward complete comfort in the O to know where everybody is going to see them. Knowing the O and knowing the D…so if a S goes one way it’s a key for you to look for that player to be open.

5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Frankly we’ve been exposed to how hard it’s been to overcome Siri’s O very much. Steichen made it work. But it felt like more a hinderance than helping. Look I understand and am saying that Hurts not being fully developed coming in as a pro has always been a factor. But just can’t understand how bigger goal progress is made if you don’t suffer through learning it. Had Kelce doing a bunch. Ok…I get that. But just because the young QB isn’t ready and doing these things it still has to be taught. 

It's a balancing act. We started out with the Moore offense and it was refreshing. IDK why we stopped it. I would like to get back to it,and we need to unless Hurts is saying he isn't happy with it. All I can figure. I have no idea what transpires in Siri's office,but we went away from the Moore offense. We see the motion with the same plays we always had. The FB innovation was nice to see,we need more innovation,disguises on both sides of the ball. Siri controls that part and IDK why he is going away from it. if he has to go away from it to win the game I can't blame the guy for wanting to keep his job and his job is to win games however he can

And so I explained how I feel the best I could. Perhaps you see it differently,but for now I will back Siri as far as understanding he is trying to mix oil and water. I will still call him out for bonehead things he does,but I suspect he isn't going to change over my opinion

8 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

It's a balancing act. We started out with the Moore offense and it was refreshing. IDK why we stopped it. I would like to get back to it,and we need to unless Hurts is saying he isn't happy with it. All I can figure. I have no idea what transpires in Siri's office,but we went away from the Moore offense. We see the motion with the same plays we always had. The FB innovation was nice to see,we need more innovation,disguises on both sides of the ball. Siri controls that part and IDK why he is going away from it. if he has to go away from it to win the game I can't blame the guy for wanting to keep his job and his job is to win games however he can

Hurts claimed Kelce was "stunting his growth" so he must already have the knowledge,or it's more difficult than he thought it would be and took Kelce for granted

13 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I also scratch my head at what Hurts does-TOO often

I’m not blind saying none of these issues exist. But I’m pointing out what seems to not be considered about what the training is. We all don’t like the weakness of Hurts ..the results. I’m just focused on the reasoning, actions and decision that cause what we don’t like. Ball security when scrambling he really hasn’t been doing enough. Can be taught. But the vision and D reading directly tie into the O. Not just read a D and see the whole field. It’s more about what you do and see because of the D is doing that. 
  So what I’ve concluded is all evidence points to just didn’t spend the time coaching in these areas. Accepted the young kid that wasn’t developed well on these areas(because of learning a new O each season) had to just work the O around what the kid could do…right now..always. First year HC..young at that and inexperienced really not even being a real OC. Is it a leap to conclude he just had to skip so much of coaching the QB all the tools to the job? That he had Kelce to handle it right away. So reading the D and calling protections with very minimal thoughts of audibling. Look he wasn’t a first overall pick. He wasn’t 25 years old coming out of college. Even most QBs show a greater understanding of all these areas when they get in there 30s. These almost 40 year old QBs are the guys that show the best understanding in these areas. I’ll give Peyton Manning as probably the biggest exception I can think of. The Sheriff is a very smart guy that grew up learning football his whole life from his father, an NFL QB.

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Hurts claimed Kelce was "stunting his growth" so he must already have the knowledge,or it's more difficult than he thought it would be and took Kelce for granted

I don’t think he actually said that. But it’s exactly what I’m saying happened. Are you going to learn quicker by doing it live in actual games? But he wasn’t ready. I’m fine with Kelce doing it. But the problem to me seems very clearly by not needing Hurts to do it…Siri decided to shortcut and skip coaching it to him…you know developing the young player into being a pro. Because you can skip the blocking and audibles ….which comes from not reading a D. So I’m not in the meetings…but just really feels like an easy conclusion knowing what we have all learned about Hurts and Siri at this point.

35 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

And so I explained how I feel the best I could. Perhaps you see it differently,but for now I will back Siri as far as understanding he is trying to mix oil and water. I will still call him out for bonehead things he does,but I suspect he isn't going to change over my opinion

So your take is Hurts just can’t be taught?

34 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So your take is Hurts just can’t be taught?

When a player has been doing something the same way since pee wee football it's hard to change.

He's proven he can take care of the ball since he was sacked 5 times with no turnovers against the Gints. If he continues like that the Eagles are competitive with anyone.

41 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So your take is Hurts just can’t be taught?

Who is supposed to teach him basic football skills? 3,5,7 step drop,use all the tools.Make a decision and release the ball. Step up,plant,throw. Stop with all the philosophical stuff. If he can't master the basics nobody can teach him other things or he fights learning them. Check your D,see a blitz coming? Adjust and get the ball out. Basic QB stuff

1 hour ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So your take is Hurts just can’t be taught?

My take on Hurts... he has grown up being the best " athlete " on the field.  Able to outrun everyone.  I believe it's difficult for him to learn other ways because in the back of his mind...." I can outrun everyone if the first read is covered, why should I stay in the pocket instead of using my running ability to get away. "   I believe he has had enough success and made his money doing it his way... I believe very difficult to want to do anything different.    The temptation is falling back on using the running.

 

I absolutely believe the reports that he doesn't like going under center. He likes the read option.   He likes relying on one WR...locking in.

I believe you must think Hurts is very slow in learning any basics.  Stuff that you know as a fan, you think  needs to be taught to him even as a year 5 NFL starter.  Did he not have good coaching in college?  Some of these young QBs come in knowing the game that didn’t go to Alabama or Oklahoma.  Why does he need to be babied EVERY step of the way?

Like do you really think in 2021-2024... that 3 different OCs didn't have any " hot routes" or audibles within their offenses?  

Really?  All 3 of them?   Or do you honestly believe that the head coach would say... " hey on my team we don't have any hot routes"?

Like you think Siri made his way up the ranks to head coach and never had or doesn't  believe in the idea of hot routes?

On any level he coached or played, you think he prefers not to have any hot routes?

This is what you are suggesting... and you can't see how ridiculous this sounds?

The coach literally wants to prevent his QB from succeeding?    This is what you think?

Or could it be possible that they are around him every day and know more of his limitations or just fall on the sword for him? 

Idk... but here is what i think... I think you are going to blame another 3 or 4 more coaches during Hurts career. 

I think he has 3 more years here... at some point Siri is going to get fired for his lack of ability.  The next coach comes in and has him for a year or so...then they figure it out and get a new QB... maybe the next guy after Siri gets a shot with that QB...maybe not. 

I absolutely think Siri gets fired before they officially move on from Hurts... much easier spin.  Only way it doesn't happen is if Hurts gets injured for a year.  Then it's an excuse built in.  Unless they think the backup is good. But it's not one of these current guys.

Just now, joemas6 said:

The coach literally wants to prevent his QB from succeeding?    This is what you think?

Or could it be possible that they are around him every day and know more of his limitations or just fall on the sword for him? 

Idk... but here is what i think... I think you are going to blame another 3 or 4 more coaches during Hurts career. 

I think he has 3 more years here... at some point Siri is going to get fired for his lack of ability.  The next coach comes in and has him for a year or so...then they figure it out and get a new QB... maybe the next guy after Siri gets a shot with that QB...maybe not. 

I absolutely think Siri gets fired before they officially move on from Hurts... much easier spin.  Only way it doesn't happen is if Hurts gets injured for a year.  Then it's an excuse built in.  Unless they think the backup is good. But it's not one of these current guys.

Or... they get some luck and advance to at least the conference championship.  Then Siri stays.. of he wins a playoff game without Hurts, its the only way he stays longer than Hurts. 

As an Eagles fan, we need to hope for some of that 2022 luck.  Barkley and AJ do their thing and the defense steps up... Hurts doesn't make any dumb mistakes...and let's see what happens. 

Lamar Jackson,5 passing TD's ZERO rushing TD's. Running QB with all passing TD's(hmmmm) because they have Henry like we have Bark. Yet Hurts took in the 1 yards tush push TD's himself-WHY? Lj still had 52 yards on the ground

40 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Lamar Jackson,5 passing TD's ZERO rushing TD's. Running QB with all passing TD's(hmmmm) because they have Henry like we have Bark. Yet Hurts took in the 1 yards tush push TD's himself-WHY? Lj still had 52 yards on the ground

His passing definitely has improved. I'm sure it's the elite coaching from Harbaugh.