IDK that it reverted back to Siri's, More likely is it reverted back to Hurts

5 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Those "fantastic plays" are because once broken, our WR's are good enough to give him a window after the route has been broken. Hurts can't even find these guys when they get wide open. It's a huge issue when you deny a free play like that. The WR's worked hard to get open and then they don't get nuttin. it's a good way to lose your WR's

So far our WR's aren't Prima Donnas,but you know,they want the ball like other players on offense. Deny them enough and they will quit on you. That needs corrected ASAP

Ask yourself this…isn’t it just an obvious conflict of interest for Siri to have Moore show clearly signs of how bad he’s been? The more Siri lets Moore install and implement his scheme…it’s just proof of Siri’s incompetence. Frankly seems like Siri’s best career moves are short term and feeding any narrative his brilliance was just held back by Hurts. He needs a scapegoat. Didn’t realize this so much before…but just look how so many point the finger at the QB. If Moore actually coaches Hurts and he has obvious development in the areas…well you say he’s not good at/ I say because under Siri’s watch he didn’t receive good coaching to develop these things. 
 Siri’s agenda:W/L record and scapegoat the QB as holding him back. Those are what several already pointed to defending Siri as a quality HC. That’s his resume and future. 
 

11 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

First there is a big difference between a broken play and a called one. Hurts used to be outstanding running on those broken plays,but he doesn't anymore. It really made defenses defend that but that has gone away. As far as don't get hurt,this is the NFL,you get paid to give it all every game. If you are playing scared you won't be an MVP 

Exactly…under Siri the scheme was make a play…that’s the plan. When my hopes were that even under Moore I’m not so high on at least we could get a plan and X and O adaptions…an understanding of how to actually run an O. 

5 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Sure Siri is on the hot seat. As i said Moore working with a different QB type and Hurts working with a different coaching type. It's 2 different spectrums and Siri is trying to get them to meet in the middle. It's not easy to do

I suppose this is why Siri lashed out at the fans because they only want to see an exciting team play. The boos may or may not be warranted,but they don't get that Siri has 2 differing spectrums to bring together and so I can't speak for Joe,but I as a fan also understand this is  difficult task Siri has. TO bring a running QB and a pocket passing coach together and why I tend to cut Siri some slack. Siri has alot to learn still,I understand that,but I also know the task he has to deal with. Lurie put Moore into a tough spot and Siri has to balance these 2 different things,so I cannot judge Siri as a HC until I see the final product,which could take along time to achieve. he could fail or succeed,but right now Siri is winning games. We can't blame Siri for the TB game.wipe that away. Now Siri has a tough game coming up. I don't care if we lose(well I DO but....) We need to play well and if we get beat,so be it. But we can't afford to miss wide open receivers against Cincy. It has to be a cleanly played coherent game

10 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Ask yourself this…isn’t it just an obvious conflict of interest for Siri to have Moore show clearly signs of how bad he’s been? The more Siri lets Moore install and implement his scheme…it’s just proof of Siri’s incompetence. Frankly seems like Siri’s best career moves are short term and feeding any narrative his brilliance was just held back by Hurts. He needs a scapegoat. Didn’t realize this so much before…but just look how so many point the finger at the QB. If Moore actually coaches Hurts and he has obvious development in the areas…well you say he’s not good at/ I say because under Siri’s watch he didn’t receive good coaching to develop these things. 
 Siri’s agenda:W/L record and scapegoat the QB as holding him back. Those are what several already pointed to defending Siri as a quality HC. That’s his resume and future. 
 

The Moore type offense is being discarded more every game. Is Siri incompetent or is he just playing to Hurts strengths and not trying to change him?  If the latter is the case,something is going to break one way or the other. Howie installed an OC that isn't really a fit for Hurts,or Hurts isn't a fit for what Moore wants to do. I think Moore is frustrated with Hurts lack of passing ability,field vision and the rest as a QB

Anyway,this offense struggles with the passing game because of the different spectrums Siri has to deal with. Hurts can be pretty "incompetent" at times himself. Siri has things to learn as a HC still. I don't see him improving much. He takes risks when he should take the points. It's going to bite him in the arse at some point. I get he is trying to show confidence in the team,but sometimes even the fans know the obvious

One way you, FL and No Mas, both seem to differ at looking at with me seems to be reading a D. Sorry for my lack of skill being any reason if I come off as thinking I’m superior or anything. Probably not my strong suit so much getting my point across clearly and concisely with the proper words and phrases. But I will admit that in my head I feel right…really don’t we all? Isn’t that exactly what an option is?

 But I see reading a D as much more complicated than you both have expressed. You have to recognize the D play…but you need the corresponding expected response that your coach/scheme has. It’s not just knowing what you’re facing…but how to proceed with that given play. So you don’t seem to be considering how each year with a new O it’s different.

Just now, cunninghamtheman said:

One way you, FL and No Mas, both seem to differ at looking at with me seems to be reading a D. Sorry for my lack of skill being any reason if I come off as thinking I’m superior or anything. Probably not my strong suit so much getting my point across clearly and concisely with the proper words and phrases. But I will admit that in my head I feel right…really don’t we all? Isn’t that exactly what an option is?

 But I see reading a D as much more complicated than you both have expressed. You have to recognize the D play…but you need the corresponding expected response that your coach/scheme has. It’s not just knowing what you’re facing…but how to proceed with that given play. So you don’t seem to be considering how each year with a new O it’s different.

The corresponding response is on the QB,at the line,with 15 seconds left,to make the audible. Hurts is on the field and as a "leader" he needs to make those decisions.The upstairs people will see trends or see what defenses are trying to do. That should be relayed to Hurts by Siri,but Hurts is the one to make the decisions as he is on the field 

2 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

The corresponding response is on the QB,at the line,with 15 seconds left,to make the audible. Hurts is on the field and as a "leader" he needs to make those decisions.The upstairs people will see trends or see what defenses are trying to do. That should be relayed to Hurts by Siri,but Hurts is the one to make the decisions as he is on the field 

Hurts has difficulty making those decisions,then more difficulty executing them. I beieve he avoids some decisions because he knows he cannot execute it and that becomes a problem. This keeps him out of the MVP talks. As you said,this is only my own opinion

19 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Exactly…under Siri the scheme was make a play…that’s the plan. When my hopes were that even under Moore I’m not so high on at least we could get a plan and X and O adaptions…an understanding of how to actually run an O. 

As I said before Siri has the unenviable task of having 2 different types meet in the middle. it's very difficult to do. Siri has this monumental task and it's not easy. Not being political,but it's like trying to bring a liberal and a conservative together to meet in the middle. Very difficult

14 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But I see reading a D as much more complicated than you both have expressed.

You have to read the disguises. Hurts is 5 years in now. The honeymoon is over and he should be able to read these and adjust with help from upstairs. Neither Hurts nor upstairs can figure out the TB defense LOL. Bowles is just outstanding

What’s your version of why you don’t blame Siri for not understanding much on the X and O front, showing very little signs of deep thoughts(heck not a sign of any second steps even)…anyway….all the proof about how Siri operates…how do you just tear down the player for showing lack of being taught football knowledge when he’s really just been pretty exclusively had Siri as the guy in charge? I’m trying to understand your side of things. Think the facts that Hurts was young hard working and coachable all aren’t even disputed by the die hardest Hurts Hater. 
 I’m just trying to understand how anybody expects the QB to develop a better understanding than the HC. 

What’s the reason you don’t think it was Siri’s failure to coach Hurts…but the player himself that’s really only had Siri the whole time…accept his rookie year he was the backup?

I go further than that really…I blame Rosie for Siri and how the situation has occurred with our franchise QB.

I don’t even think Siri ever got the job because he was a top HC choice. I think he got our HC job mostly on Rosie’s love for Gannon.

13 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

What’s your version of why you don’t blame Siri for not understanding much on the X and O front, showing very little signs of deep thoughts(heck not a sign of any second steps even)…anyway….all the proof about how Siri operates…how do you just tear down the player for showing lack of being taught football knowledge when he’s really just been pretty exclusively had Siri as the guy in charge? I’m trying to understand your side of things. Think the facts that Hurts was young hard working and coachable all aren’t even disputed by the die hardest Hurts Hater. 
 I’m just trying to understand how anybody expects the QB to develop a better understanding than the HC. 

I'm sure Siri knows X's and O's as do the rest of the staff. Moore has a different vision of how this O works. Siri overrides him possibly because it's out of Hurts comfort zone and the idea is to win games. You can't change those that don't want to be changed. You say Hurts works hard. I agree. But what is he working hard on? His decision making is no better,that can't be taught that is an innate quality unless the person you are teaching goes out of their comfort zone. So my version is Siri is having a tough time bringing Moore and Hurts together,in the middle. Hurts seems to not want to implement the Moore offense because he is uncomfortable as a non pocket QB. There is really no fault to be passed out,it's 2 conflicting styles of play and I can't say that is Siri's fault alone. You are failing to understand the task put on Siri by Luries hire. All Lurie sees is that Moore had success. He also sees Hurts had success and Siri is trying to mix oil and water

12 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

What’s the reason you don’t think it was Siri’s failure to coach Hurts…but the player himself that’s really only had Siri the whole time…accept his rookie year he was the backup?

It's not Siri's job to teach Hurts,that is what the staff was hired for

6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I don’t even think Siri ever got the job because he was a top HC choice. I think he got our HC job mostly on Rosie’s love for Gannon.

Lurie likes to give people shots and he hires people that have not been NFL HC's before. Look at the last 3 hires. Who did Lurie hire,the last 3?

Feels like I’ve seen Mahomes suffer through very similar issues as Hurts…though Mahomes is more gifted. He’s struggled adapting and with his football knowledge. Get it to Cheetah quick or with his cannon arm…or he’s mostly just developed an incredible relationship with Kelce. But he’s learned and progressed…last season just in time so they didn’t miss the playoffs even…which turned into a SB. He’s had outstanding coaching to teach him this stuff. AR obviously …but assistants also. 
 So we seem to all understand how great Mahomes already is in the history of the game even. Yet he was older and struggled through the same issues with a very great gameplan, adaptation and understanding HC. So what’s the difference between Hurts Hating that he’s so terrible and Mahomes is the best? They both struggle with learning everything about the game besides just making plays. One receives playcalls that reflect a coach understanding how to counter what the D does….the other we don’t even see the obvious easy answers. 

15 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I go further than that really…I blame Rosie for Siri and how the situation has occurred with our franchise QB.

IDK how you can blame Howie for Luries hire. IDK if there was a pre hire fight or if they agreed on Siri. I'm sure the final decision was on Lurie. Howie's job is to make this team better with every acquisition or draft choice. Not all will be winners,nobody can do that,but he gave Hurts probably the best supporting cast a QB could ask for and he is always on the hunt and sticking his nose in to get players and work the contracts to our advantage(again nobody is perfect there either) 

7 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Feels like I’ve seen Mahomes suffer through very similar issues as Hurts…though Mahomes is more gifted. He’s struggled adapting and with his football knowledge. Get it to Cheetah quick or with his cannon arm…or he’s mostly just developed an incredible relationship with Kelce. But he’s learned and progressed…last season just in time so they didn’t miss the playoffs even…which turned into a SB. He’s had outstanding coaching to teach him this stuff. AR obviously …but assistants also. 
 So we seem to all understand how great Mahomes already is in the history of the game even. Yet he was older and struggled through the same issues with a very great gameplan, adaptation and understanding HC. So what’s the difference between Hurts Hating that he’s so terrible and Mahomes is the best? They both struggle with learning everything about the game besides just making plays. One receives playcalls that reflect a coach understanding how to counter what the D does….the other we don’t even see the obvious easy answers. 

Mahomes is really struggling this year. You can see how a BAD supporting cast or injuries can change the whole dynamic. Look at ARod in NY. Great supporting cast also(and now add Adams into the mix). So why is Arod failing? The timing isn't there yet. In Mahomes case the talent isn't there to exploit. Hurts has it all and HAS and he can't put this together. Mahomes has shown he can do that. Hurts did in 2022,then his progress fell off the map

12 minutes ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

I'm sure Siri knows X's and O's as do the rest of the staff. Moore has a different vision of how this O works. Siri overrides him possibly because it's out of Hurts comfort zone and the idea is to win games. You can't change those that don't want to be changed. You say Hurts works hard. I agree. But what is he working hard on? His decision making is no better,that can't be taught that is an innate quality unless the person you are teaching goes out of their comfort zone. So my version is Siri is having a tough time bringing Moore and Hurts together,in the middle. Hurts seems to not want to implement the Moore offense because he is uncomfortable as a non pocket QB. There is really no fault to be passed out,it's 2 conflicting styles of play and I can't say that is Siri's fault alone. You are failing to understand the task put on Siri by Luries hire. All Lurie sees is that Moore had success. He also sees Hurts had success and Siri is trying to mix oil and water

As OC in Indy it was the HC Reich’s O being run. A very light level of reflection being from Siri. He works hard…is competitive. But why couldn’t Siri show signs of his X and O knowledge? His start here reflected a bad disconnect with what would work. He was bad. He completely got saved by Steichen taking over. I mean Siri put us in such a whole pretty much had to win out…and did to make the playoffs.

 Anyway you said Hurts can’t run Moores O or something right? How would anybody possibly get to that conclusion? Felt like Siri started stepping back in like the second game. It’s a completely different O, yes. Who would expect any QB to show like he’s been running it for a decade by week one? Totally understood all along it will take time to develop and install and adapt it. That was the plan though, right? Going to actually coach and have a scheme on O. So why wouldn’t we want to accelerate that learning curve as much as possible? Get it maximized by the end of the first season is a tall task.

 I’ll tell you why…it’s not what Siri wants or in his best interests,

9 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

He’s struggled adapting and with his football knowledge. Get it to Cheetah quick or with his cannon arm…

This is what we have been bishing about for 2 years running. Can Hurts find the knowledge? It's been 5 years. Hurts doesn't have a cannon arm either. He is more deliberate but he lacks field vision. IDK if that can be taught,I highly doubt it. it's an intangible Hurts lacks. he made his mark with his running ability and that has disappeared also. IDK if that is by design or not

8 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

As OC in Indy it was the HC Reich’s O being run. A very light level of reflection being from Siri. He works hard…is competitive. But why couldn’t Siri show signs of his X and O knowledge? His start here reflected a bad disconnect with what would work. He was bad. He completely got saved by Steichen taking over. I mean Siri put us in such a whole pretty much had to win out…and did to make the playoffs.

 Anyway you said Hurts can’t run Moores O or something right? How would anybody possibly get to that conclusion? Felt like Siri started stepping back in like the second game. It’s a completely different O, yes. Who would expect any QB to show like he’s been running it for a decade by week one? Totally understood all along it will take time to develop and install and adapt it. That was the plan though, right? Going to actually coach and have a scheme on O. So why wouldn’t we want to accelerate that learning curve as much as possible? Get it maximized by the end of the first season is a tall task.

 I’ll tell you why…it’s not what Siri wants or in his best interests,

Siri's interest is to win games.....for his boss. The HC's job is to make the owner look good. The players job is to make the HC look good,by executing the plays. The staffs job is to make the players better so the HC looks better so the owner looks better. The typical corporate structure. Siri could be stepping back because Hurts is unable to execute the Moore offense and he pulls back because of the first statement. Of course Siri wants to keep his job,who wouldn't? Delivering W's is his only job and Hurts seems like a slow learner albeit a hard worker. Hurts needs to work smarter,not harder