28 minutes ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

Please tell me the QBs you think are better than Wentz, this should be hilarious. And there better be at least 12-15 of em 

In 2020? All of them basically lmao

32 minutes ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

Please tell me the QBs you think are better than Wentz, this should be hilarious. And there better be at least 12-15 of em 

I would start with these 15, not necessarily in exact order:

1. Patrick Mahomes

2. Russell Wilson

3. Aaron Rodgers

4. Deshaun Watson

5. Lamar Jackson

6. Kyler Murray

7. Drew Brees

8. Tom Brady

9. Matthew Stafford

10. Ben Roethlisberger

11. Matt Ryan

12. Justin Herbert

13. Ryan Tannehill

14. Baker Mayfield

15. Joe Burrow (pre injury)

 

Based on this list, I can see Wentz possibly making a comeback into becoming a top 15 QB under the right circumstances, but probably near the bottom of this list, rather than the top. I don't think he is going to crack top 5 again. It certainly helps him that a bunch of these guys are near the end of their careers, so there's more room for young QBs to be considered top 10 or top 15, but on the same token, there will always be young talent coming in from the draft every year, and inevitably some of those QBs will go on to be very successful. Trevor Lawrence could find himself on this list by the end of next season.

Okay I’m not that much of a hater, I can’t do Stafford or Baker 😂
 

ps you forgot Dak

16 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

 

We don't have a lot of cap and that's absolutely fair. I mean I guess the advantage we have (and it's a sad thing to say) is that we aren't going to really be contenders next year so hey if Hurts went down we don't really need a capable back up. 

You worry too much about the cap. They just have to get under it before the new league year starts. Once you’ve managed that you can spend all you want. They can easily sign a veteran backup QB to a one year deal.

19 hours ago, greend said:

Trouble is we don't have much extra cash. 

No worries, they can draft a backup in Round 2.  Gotta have a cost controlled backup QB.

Now compare those 15 QB's offensive situations to the Eagles. 

Even the guys on the bottom have Julio, Ridley, OBJ, Landry, K.Allen, D.Henry, T.Boyd etc... 

Not sure how much better some of those could do with what Wentz had to work with.  

 

8 hours ago, ShutDownDB said:

Why though? Let's say this summer he works with a QB guy, they draft Smith or Chase and the offensive line stays healthy. In that hypothetical you can't see him playing like a top 5 QB? What isn't fixable?

He's going in to year 6 and he's not fixed any of his issues. I'm not sure why people think this could be the magical year that he does. He's a flawed inconsistent QB. That's who he's been throughout his career. 

54 minutes ago, Ray75 said:

You worry too much about the cap. They just have to get under it before the new league year starts. Once you’ve managed that you can spend all you want. They can easily sign a veteran backup QB to a one year deal.

Perhaps yes. But they also don't even need to because they aren't going to be competitive next year. 

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Perhaps yes. But they also don't even need to because they aren't going to be competitive next year. 

Again the question is; would you rather take a flyer on another QB in Fields or Wilson if you have questions about Hurts being the answer or infuse this roster with cost effenctive young talent and roll with Hurts? 

Just now, Ray75 said:

Again the question is; would you rather take a flyer on another QB in Fields or Wilson if you have questions about Hurts being the answer or infuse this roster with cost effenctive young talent and roll with Hurts? 

Bud I've answered that in another thread. The answer is I don't really know. If they are sold on Fields then they should look to go get him. If they aren't then they roll with Hurts and they start the rebuild. 

15 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Bud I've answered that in another thread. The answer is I don't really know. If they are sold on Fields then they should look to go get him. If they aren't then they roll with Hurts and they start the rebuild. 

It’s going to be a rebuild nonetheless, buddy!

Either you grab your next franchise QB in the top 6 or you use those picks on talent at other positions.

Is it September yet?

6 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He's going in to year 6 and he's not fixed any of his issues. I'm not sure why people think this could be the magical year that he does. He's a flawed inconsistent QB. That's who he's been throughout his career. 

To be fair we've never seen Carson play that bad for that long, so it's hard to know what to expect from him going forward. However, its entirely possible I'm being way too optimistic about all this.

7 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He's going in to year 6 and he's not fixed any of his issues. I'm not sure why people think this could be the magical year that he does. He's a flawed inconsistent QB. That's who he's been throughout his career. 

I think you have unrealistic expectations for QBs. It might help me understand your opinion better if you list the "issues" he hasn't "fixed." I'm not arguing that he hasn't had issues each year, but they aren't always the same from year to year. QBs need to mature. They need to have success and learn how to deal with it. They need to fail and learn how to overcome it. It's a maturing process that takes many years. Wentz does need to start demonstrating some maturity at this point. Wherever he ends up playing, this is a critical offseason for him.

I think when we look at other QBs around the league, since they weren't "our QB" we tend to overlook flaws they may have or may have had. Take a look at Brees' career:

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	1D	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
Career					287	286	172-114-0	7142	10551	67.7	80358	571	5.4	243	2.3	3987	98	7.6	7.7	11.3	280.0	98.7		420	2991	7.05	7.10	3.8	36	53	276
15 yrs		NOR			228	228	142-86-0	6017	8742	68.8	68010	491	5.6	190	2.2	3393	98	7.8	7.9	11.3	298.3	101.5		328	2267	7.25	7.39	3.6	31	44	227
5 yrs		SDG			59	58	30-28-0	1125	1809	62.2	12348	80	4.4	53	2.9	594	79	6.8	6.4	11.0	209.3	84.9		92	724	6.11	5.70	4.8	5	9	49
2001	22	SDG		9	1	0		15	27	55.6	221	1	3.7	0	0.0	11	40	8.2	8.9	14.7	221.0	94.8		2	12	7.21	7.90	6.9			1
2002	23	SDG	QB	9	16	16	8-8-0	320	526	60.8	3284	17	3.2	16	3.0	164	52	6.2	5.5	10.3	205.3	76.9		24	180	5.64	4.95	4.4	2	4	10
2003	24	SDG	QB	9	11	11	2-9-0	205	356	57.6	2108	11	3.1	15	4.2	94	68	5.9	4.6	10.3	191.6	67.5		21	178	5.12	3.91	5.6	0	1	6
2004*	25	SDG	QB	9	15	15	11-4-0	262	400	65.5	3159	27	6.8	7	1.8	142	79	7.9	8.5	12.1	210.6	104.8		18	131	7.24	7.78	4.3	1	2	17
2005	26	SDG	QB	9	16	16	9-7-0	323	500	64.6	3576	24	4.8	15	3.0	183	54	7.2	6.8	11.1	223.5	89.2		27	223	6.36	5.99	5.1	2	2	15
2006*+	27	NOR	QB	9	16	16	10-6-0	356	554	64.3	4418	26	4.7	11	2.0	202	86	8.0	8.0	12.4	276.1	96.2	66.7	18	105	7.54	7.58	3.1	1	2	15
2007	28	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	440	652	67.5	4423	28	4.3	18	2.8	233	58	6.8	6.4	10.1	276.4	89.4	64.6	16	109	6.46	6.08	2.4	1	1	14
2008*	29	NOR	QB	9	16	16	8-8-0	413	635	65.0	5069	34	5.4	17	2.7	233	84	8.0	7.8	12.3	316.8	96.2	65.7	13	92	7.68	7.55	2.0	2	2	17
2009*	30	NOR	QB	9	15	15	13-2-0	363	514	70.6	4388	34	6.6	11	2.1	210	75	8.5	8.9	12.1	292.5	109.6	82.0	20	135	7.96	8.31	3.7	2	4	16
2010*	31	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	448	658	68.1	4620	33	5.0	22	3.3	238	80	7.0	6.5	10.3	288.8	90.9	70.8	25	185	6.49	6.01	3.7	4	5	14
2011*	32	NOR	QB	9	16	16	13-3-0	468	657	71.2	5476	46	7.0	14	2.1	279	79	8.3	8.8	11.7	342.3	110.6	82.3	24	158	7.81	8.23	3.5	3	4	20
2012*	33	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	422	670	63.0	5177	43	6.4	19	2.8	266	80	7.7	7.7	12.3	323.6	96.3	68.7	26	190	7.17	7.17	3.7	1	2	15
2013*	34	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	446	650	68.6	5162	39	6.0	12	1.8	246	76	7.9	8.3	11.6	322.6	104.7		37	244	7.16	7.51	5.4	2	2	17
2014*	35	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	456	659	69.2	4952	33	5.0	17	2.6	259	69	7.5	7.4	10.9	309.5	97.0	74.8	29	186	6.93	6.77	4.2	2	2	16
2015	36	NOR	QB	9	15	15	7-8-0	428	627	68.3	4870	32	5.1	11	1.8	228	80	7.8	8.0	11.4	324.7	101.0	66.8	31	235	7.04	7.26	4.7	1	2	14
2016*	37	NOR	QB	9	16	16	7-9-0	471	673	70.0	5208	37	5.5	15	2.2	265	98	7.7	7.8	11.1	325.5	101.7	66.8	27	184	7.18	7.27	3.9	2	4	16
2017*	38	NOR	QB	9	16	16	11-5-0	386	536	72.0	4334	23	4.3	8	1.5	203	54	8.1	8.3	11.2	270.9	103.9	62.5	20	145	7.53	7.71	3.6	2	2	16
2018*	39	NOR	QB	9	15	15	13-2-0	364	489	74.4	3992	32	6.5	5	1.0	223	72	8.2	9.0	11.0	266.1	115.7	79.2	17	121	7.65	8.47	3.4	6	7	17
2019*	40	NOR	QB	9	11	11	8-3-0	281	378	74.3	2979	27	7.1	4	1.1	159	61	7.9	8.8	10.6	270.8	116.3	73.3	12	89	7.41	8.33	3.1	1	2	11
2020	41	NOR	QB	9	12	12	9-3-0	275	390	70.5	2942	24	6.2	6	1.5	149	52	7.5	8.1	10.7	245.2	106.4	74.5	13	89	7.08	7.60	3.2	1	3	9

 

I mean, we act like he's perfect, but he threw a lot of INTs from years 5-16. It's something that happens. Up until this season, Wentz did a good job of keeping that number down. Brees also had a Pro Bowl season in year 4 and then regressed in year 5 (a contract year). The point I'm trying to make is that just because things trend downward, it does not mean that won't change. Not only can Wentz get back to his 2017 performance, he can surpass it by increasing his TDs and completion percentages. It's crazy to throw that idea outside the realms of possibility. 

35 minutes ago, ShutDownDB said:

To be fair we've never seen Carson play that bad for that long, so it's hard to know what to expect from him going forward. However, its entirely possible I'm being way too optimistic about all this.

Nothing wrong with that. No one should want him to fail

Who wants to fix a 130 million dollar QB, no thanks.

Shouldn’t  have to be fixed. Also how is Doug going to fix Wentz when he couldn’t all year?

 

36 minutes ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

Who wants to fix a 130 million dollar QB, no thanks.

Shouldn’t  have to be fixed. Also how is Doug going to fix Wentz when he couldn’t all year?

 

Quite possibly the worst take yet.

Outstanding 

16 hours ago, ShutDownDB said:

Why though? Let's say this summer he works with a QB guy, they draft Smith or Chase and the offensive line stays healthy. In that hypothetical you can't see him playing like a top 5 QB? What isn't fixable?

The penchant for stupid plays. The hero ball. The diminished athleticism that allowed him to get away with reckless play in the past.  None of that can be "fixed”.

18 hours ago, ShutDownDB said:

Is saying he had plenty around him the same as saying he'd be a top QB with a solid online and legit WR?  

Also just to be clear, do you think he can be 2017 Wentz again at all?

What's a "legit WR?"  Fulgham looked legit for 4 games.  He has the best TE tandem in the league, although Ertz had a down year.  With O line, yes there were games where he had most of the starters.  Obviously the O line was an issue this year.  You can take any QB in the league and argue they'd be better with a solid O line and legit WR!    

You can't deny that whether he had all or most of his starters, or backups that he was also making terrible decisions, missing basic throws.  I mean former QBs that called the games were calling him out.  Aikman even said that not even a High School QB would make such bad throws and would be benched.  There was a game where they started out defending Wentz with the O line and not having talented receivers...then as the game went on they saw the bad throws, bad decisions, not throwing the ball away and started ripping Wentz because they saw it too.  It's been a combination of everything.

Can he get back to 2017?  I think it's possible and I've said it throughout the year.  He has the skills, we saw it in the past.  There were some flashes this year of some good throws or good drives.  I don't know if it's injuries, something mental after seeing Foles win a SB and then the next year see Foles win a playoff game and now he's got too much of a chip on his shoulder.  He seemed to thrive under Reich as OC and Flip as QB coach.  Different TV shows have put up the graphics that his record and stats since Reich left have been average where they were high before.  I think the OC plays a big part.  He's regressed and been playing hero ball and making bad decisions.  I'm not sure in this structure he can get back to that place without a lot of work from coaches and himself.  I could see if he went to another team and had a fresh start that being easier.  

Now they are supposedly looking at hiring a traditional OC.  If it's true that Howie wants to keep Wentz and not trade him, I wouldn't be surprised if Doug is being told to get a good solid OC and surround Wentz with what he needs to be successful. I could even see Lurie pressuring to fix his $100 million investment.  

2 hours ago, ShutDownDB said:

To be fair we've never seen Carson play that bad for that long, so it's hard to know what to expect from him going forward. However, its entirely possible I'm being way too optimistic about all this.

And it's entirely possible that I'm being too pessimistic about Wentz so let's see how it all plays out. I do think Wentz is better than what he showed this year, we know he's better than that. But with this team? I just don't see him turning it around that much.

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

I think you have unrealistic expectations for QBs. It might help me understand your opinion better if you list the "issues" he hasn't "fixed." I'm not arguing that he hasn't had issues each year, but they aren't always the same from year to year. QBs need to mature.

Do I? I don't expect him to be Brady or Mahomes every year. But when you're paying him top dollar I think you expect good QB play.

His mechanics are an issue, his mentality to always look for the big play and hold on to the ball too long are an issue, his fumbling is an issue. Those are things that have been true every year of his career so far. He's just gotten away with it at times because he had better protection and for longer. He's not matured from what we've seen on the field so he's not maturing. 

7 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And it's entirely possible that I'm being too pessimistic about Wentz so let's see how it all plays out. I do think Wentz is better than what he showed this year, we know he's better than that. But with this team? I just don't see him turning it around that much.

Do I? I don't expect him to be Brady or Mahomes every year. But when you're paying him top dollar I think you expect good QB play.

His mechanics are an issue, his mentality to always look for the big play and hold on to the ball too long are an issue, his fumbling is an issue. Those are things that have been true every year of his career so far. He's just gotten away with it at times because he had better protection and for longer. He's not matured from what we've seen on the field so he's not maturing. 

What part of his mechanics are an issue? The big play philosophy was also the team's philosophy entering this season. It was part of our philosophy in 2017.  That's one of the reasons we drafted speedy WRs. We lacked that part of the offense in 2018 and 2019 due to injuries at Z. Fumbling is an issue. If we can protect him a little better, give him time to throw from a clean pocket, that alone will cut down on some of the fumbles as he won't be taking hits with the ball in his hand or running around trying to buy time or get yards with his feet. You're never going to completely remove fumbles from a QB during a season, you just want to reduce them. Last year, Wentz opened the season with 7 straight games without a fumble. Maturing is something players will do over time. It's not something that just happens once and it's done. He is going through the maturing process.

 

1 hour ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

Who wants to fix a 130 million dollar QB, no thanks.

Shouldn’t  have to be fixed. Also how is Doug going to fix Wentz when he couldn’t all year?

 

Isn't that what the benching is supposed to accomplish?

9 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

He's going in to year 6 and he's not fixed any of his issues. I'm not sure why people think this could be the magical year that he does. He's a flawed inconsistent QB. That's who he's been throughout his career. 

So was Josh Allen though not for as many years. Carson will probably never again  have the houdini-like physical abilities he had in 2017, injuries take their toll. It depends on what he does this offseason. Of course Josh Allen also got Stefon Diggs and they meshed.

3 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

What part of his mechanics are an issue? The big play philosophy was also the team's philosophy entering this season. It was part of our philosophy in 2017.  That's one of the reasons we drafted speedy WRs. We lacked that part of the offense in 2018 and 2019 due to injuries at Z. Fumbling is an issue. If we can protect him a little better, give him time to throw from a clean pocket, that alone will cut down on some of the fumbles as he won't be taking hits with the ball in his hand or running around trying to buy time or get yards with his feet. You're never going to completely remove fumbles from a QB during a season, you just want to reduce them. Last year, Wentz opened the season with 7 straight games without a fumble. Maturing is something players will do over time. It's not something that just happens once and it's done. He is going through the maturing process.

 

So if it isn't there he should continue to force it should he? He should ignore the guys that were at times open because they weren't the big play? 

His mechanics are an issue. He tries to throw too much with his upper body. He tries to throw off balance. He makes ridiculous decisions with dangerous throws. He doesn't set his feet. He throws off his back foot too often and not off his front foot. His accuracy is an issue. 

1 minute ago, eglz1 said:

So was Josh Allen though not for as many years. Carson will probably never again  have the houdini-like physical abilities he had in 2017, injuries take their toll. It depends on what he does this offseason. Of course Josh Allen also got Stefon Diggs and they meshed.

The Houdini like abilities were what made Carson so good though. He's not a stand in the pocket QB.

7 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

So if it isn't there he should continue to force it should he? He should ignore the guys that were at times open because they weren't the big play? 

His mechanics are an issue. He tries to throw too much with his upper body. He tries to throw off balance. He makes ridiculous decisions with dangerous throws. He doesn't set his feet. He throws off his back foot too often and not off his front foot. His accuracy is an issue. 

The Houdini like abilities were what made Carson so good though. He's not a stand in the pocket QB.

But no Quarterback - not Lamar Jackson, not Kyler Murray can count on count on backyard football style play long term. Russell Wilson isn't a statue but he is able to make plays without exposing himself to physical abuse. He's also gotten better at conventional QB play. The others are going to have to get better at it as well or expect a short career.