Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[opa-opa]

I still don't understand why Wentz was given zero slack by the fans this year despite what he has done in 17, and what he did in 19 with a bunch of 3rd stringers. We went to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years with Wentz as starting QB.

Are Eagles QBs just not allowed to have a bad year? Did we miss a chance to win a Superbowl this year because of Wentz or something? This was a throwaway year and everyone knew it by the 5th game or so. 

[opa-opa]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

See this is where I don't get this fan base.

I'm not a Wentz remainer as everyone knows. I think he's done here in Philly and both sides need to move on. 

But I don't want to see Wentz stay and fail. Just like I don't want to see Wentz go elsewhere and succeed and stick it to the Eagles. 

Considering the Eagles track record of letting go of "washed up" players, Id say the chances of that happening are quite high.

[mihailo]

2 hours ago, EagleVA said:

There's nothing I'd love more is for Wentz to remain with the Eagles and continue his sorry play just to hear what his apologists have to say.

I can't fathom this statement, I personally want every player on the Eagles that I don't believe in to prove me wrong and have me eating crow. This simply shows your hate for Wentz is at an irrational level, making discourse on such a topic pointless.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

1 minute ago, mihailo said:

I can't fathom this statement, I personally want every player on the Eagles that I don't believe in to prove me wrong and have me eating crow. This simply shows your hate for Wentz is at an irrational level, making discourse on such a topic pointless.

I don't get the sentiment that fans want players to fail here to prove a point or succeed elsewhere to make a point.

I get that these cases may add to to get Howie fired and hey I'm on board with fire Howie. But I can't get on board with this team failing.

[nipples]

1 hour ago, opa-opa said:

I still don't understand why Wentz was given zero slack by the fans this year despite what he has done in 17, and what he did in 19 with a bunch of 3rd stringers. We went to the playoffs 3 out of 5 years with Wentz as starting QB.

Are Eagles QBs just not allowed to have a bad year? Did we miss a chance to win a Superbowl this year because of Wentz or something? This was a throwaway year and everyone knew it by the 5th game or so. 

Pretty sure Wentz has a losing record for his career outside of the 2017 season. You’re really gonna give him credit for 2018 when they were outside looking in until he went out with injury and Foles led them to the playoffs? 
 

He has been inconsistent since his rookie year. One great 2017 season doesn’t override four years of inconsistency, poor mechanics, bad accuracy, etc. 

[brkmsn]

2 hours ago, EagleVA said:

There's nothing I'd love more is for Wentz to remain with the Eagles and continue his sorry play just to hear what his apologists have to say.

Let's make this happen!

 

There's a reason why two teams with coaching staffs with ties to Wentz are actively discussing trade scenarios to acquire him. The reason is that everybody can see that 2020 was an anomaly. His rating dropped off a cliff this last season. His mistakes were typical of a QB desperately trying to make a play on a team with no spark. If you had to pick one guy on this team that stepped up and provided a spark at any point in the season (while Wentz was playing), it was Fulgham. During that 5-game stretch, we had 3 of our 4 wins on the season. Then we had a bye week and a couple bad weather games where the Wentz to Fulgham connection floundered a bit. Then for reasons nobody can figure out, the Eagles decided to get Jeffery involved and started keeping Fulgham off the field more and more. That was just one of the many personnel decisions last season that made no sense whatsoever (Like, starting Peters over Mailata at LT, Brown over Opeta at RG, Gerry over Singleton, Peters over Herbig at RG, etc... ). Other than Fulgham, nobody else on the team was stepping up. So, as a team, the Eagles were a 4-11-1 team.

Football is a job for those players, that make it on to NFL teams. It's a pastime for the rest of us. The NFL chooses to use its "platform" for various causes and/or movements. They ask the players to get involved in these decisions. Last year, covid, social justice, sexual harassment, and the national election / (go vote like me) themes were very strong and they all combined to make more distraction than I have ever seen in the NFL in one season. It wasn't allowed to be just about football. Heck --- go back and watch this:

https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/video/press-conference-jeffrey-lurie-august-30-3030

Allowing the non-football issues to define the season led the crap-show we watched on TV. It started at the top and it started before the first game. 

 

... so ... That's why coaches from 2 playoff teams are willing to go all-in with Wentz. They know you can throw out last season and  get above average play from him moving forward. 

 

[nipples]

6 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Let's make this happen!

 

There's a reason why two teams with coaching staffs with ties to Wentz are actively discussing trade scenarios to acquire him. The reason is that everybody can see that 2020 was an anomaly. His rating dropped off a cliff this last season. His mistakes were typical of a QB desperately trying to make a play on a team with no spark. If you had to pick one guy on this team that stepped up and provided a spark at any point in the season (while Wentz was playing), it was Fulgham. During that 5-game stretch, we had 3 of our 4 wins on the season. Then we had a bye week and a couple bad weather games where the Wentz to Fulgham connection floundered a bit. Then for reasons nobody can figure out, the Eagles decided to get Jeffery involved and started keeping Fulgham off the field more and more. That was just one of the many personnel decisions last season that made no sense whatsoever (Like, starting Peters over Mailata at LT, Brown over Opeta at RG, Gerry over Singleton, Peters over Herbig at RG, etc... ). Other than Fulgham, nobody else on the team was stepping up. So, as a team, the Eagles were a 4-11-1 team.

Football is a job for those players, that make it on to NFL teams. It's a pastime for the rest of us. The NFL chooses to use its "platform" for various causes and/or movements. They ask the players to get involved in these decisions. Last year, covid, social justice, sexual harassment, and the national election / (go vote like me) themes were very strong and they all combined to make more distraction than I have ever seen in the NFL in one season. It wasn't allowed to be just about football. Heck --- go back and watch this:

https://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/video/press-conference-jeffrey-lurie-august-30-3030

Allowing the non-football issues to define the season led the crap-show we watched on TV. It started at the top and it started before the first game. 

 

... so ... That's why coaches from 2 playoff teams are willing to go all-in with Wentz. They know you can throw out last season and  get above average play from him moving forward. 

 

Clearly they aren’t willing to go "all-in” on Wentz, considering they obviously aren’t willing to even give up a first for him. If they were so sure that he’s the answer at QB, they’d be more than willing to trade a 1st for him. The fact is, they’re unwilling to part with significant compensation because, just like Eagle fans, they can see so many red flags with him. 

[Hawkeye]

32 minutes ago, nipples said:

Clearly they aren’t willing to go "all-in” on Wentz, considering they obviously aren’t willing to even give up a first for him. If they were so sure that he’s the answer at QB, they’d be more than willing to trade a 1st for him. The fact is, they’re unwilling to part with significant compensation because, just like Eagle fans, they can see so many red flags with him. 

You’re spot on. The Eagles totally misjudged the market for Wentz - there isn’t much of one, as it turns out.  I just get stuck trying to figure out their endgame.  I said earlier that when Doug got clipped I thought they were going to try to get Wentz back on track and develop Hurts.   It’s can’t just be a salary dump because $34mm per year is the going rate.  So why?

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, nipples said:

Clearly they aren’t willing to go "all-in” on Wentz, considering they obviously aren’t willing to even give up a first for him. If they were so sure that he’s the answer at QB, they’d be more than willing to trade a 1st for him. The fact is, they’re unwilling to part with significant compensation because, just like Eagle fans, they can see so many red flags with him. 

It’s called negotiation.  The Eagles have an ask, and the teams have offers.  Gotta have both to negotiate to a point somewhere in the middle.

[time2rock]

35 minutes ago, downundermike said:

It’s called negotiation.  The Eagles have an ask, and the teams have offers.  Gotta have both to negotiate to a point somewhere in the middle.

Three 2nd rd picks!  

[Uscg-green]

At this point keep him and lets see if he can recover next year. We aren't winning anything next year anyway. And then we don't have to draft a QB. Hurts is garbage and isn't a real QB. So it's Wentz or draft. 

[PoconoDon]

1 hour ago, time2rock said:

Three 2nd rd picks!  

Tha-reeeee.

[SNOORDA]

4 hours ago, mihailo said:

I can't fathom this statement, I personally want every player on the Eagles that I don't believe in to prove me wrong and have me eating crow. This simply shows your hate for Wentz is at an irrational level, making discourse on such a topic pointless.

Yeah. I want to move on from wentz. But if he remains here im 100% supporting him when hr is on the field. 

[Procus]

Just from a business and compensation standpoint, the Eagles really don't have to be in a hurry.  Let's face it, the mad rush for a trade now is in large part driven by the need for instant gratification by a deranged fan base egged on by a baiting local and national media.

If the Eagles wait, they can either hit another team when they get desperate (injury or otherwise) or roll the dice with a guy who is not far removed from excellent play - a guy who had to play with a semi-pro OL and no camp at all in a COVID frenzied bizarre year with empty stadiums, and seething locker rooms. 

Kind of not the circumstances to react knee jerk in a haphazard fashion. 

[EagleMatt]

27 minutes ago, Procus said:

Just from a business and compensation standpoint, the Eagles really don't have to be in a hurry.  Let's face it, the mad rush for a trade now is in large part driven by the need for instant gratification by a deranged fan base egged on by a baiting local and national media.

If the Eagles wait, they can either hit another team when they get desperate (injury or otherwise) or roll the dice with a guy who is not far removed from excellent play - a guy who had to play with a semi-pro OL and no camp at all in a COVID frenzied bizarre year with empty stadiums, and seething locker rooms. 

Kind of not the circumstances to react knee jerk in a haphazard fashion. 

Agree with everything but the bolded part. Every team dealt with this abd Wentz was the worst qb in the league. Their trash play was on him and the team.

[Portyansky]

28 minutes ago, Procus said:

Just from a business and compensation standpoint, the Eagles really don't have to be in a hurry.  Let's face it, the mad rush for a trade now is in large part driven by the need for instant gratification by a deranged fan base egged on by a baiting local and national media.

If the Eagles wait, they can either hit another team when they get desperate (injury or otherwise) or roll the dice with a guy who is not far removed from excellent play - a guy who had to play with a semi-pro OL and no camp at all in a COVID frenzied bizarre year with empty stadiums, and seething locker rooms. 

Kind of not the circumstances to react knee jerk in a haphazard fashion. 

I agree aside from the Covid comment. That affected everyone. We got a great deal for Bradford bc they got desperate. Unless a great deal falls into their laps. They should wait. 

[brkmsn]

3 hours ago, nipples said:

Clearly they aren’t willing to go "all-in” on Wentz, considering they obviously aren’t willing to even give up a first for him. If they were so sure that he’s the answer at QB, they’d be more than willing to trade a 1st for him. The fact is, they’re unwilling to part with significant compensation because, just like Eagle fans, they can see so many red flags with him. 

On the contrary! They're just letting the Philly fans and media tear down the person like they always do and using that and time for leverage in negotiations. If you think Wentz is the QB you will build your team around, a 1st rd pick is nothing --- especially a late 1st. Come back to me when an actual deal is done --- then we will more correctly see what a team is willing to part with. It would be great to already know what will happen, but since we don't, the media just keeps stringing us a long like fools with these "reports."

--- Anonymous player says Wentz checks down too much ---

--- Anonymous player says Wentz not checking down enough ---

--- Anonymous lineman complained to Doug about Wentz, asking to replace him ---

--- Wentz is selfish and a terrible teammate ---

--- Wentz and Pederson's relationship beyond repair ---

--- Wentz gets Doug fired ---

--- Doug was fired because he wanted to move forward with Hurts ---

--- Doug was fired because he wanted to stick with Wentz ---

--- Eagles after Lincoln Riley, committing to Hurts ---

--- Eagles job not appealing to coach prospects ---

--- Eagles Hire Sirianni to commit to Wentz ---

--- Wentz trade very near, will be done in the next day or so ---

--- Bears offer 1st, Cohen and Foles for Wentz --- 

--- Bears increasingly impatient with Eagles in trade talks ---

--- Highest offer so far, two 2nds from Colts --- 

--- Eagles still feel Wentz could be their guy if no trade happens ---

--- Eagles Logical landing spot for Wilson --- 

--- The reason for Wentz' issues with the Eagles, not Doug, but Howie ---

Keep on clicking and retweeting, guys. They love it. Meanwhile, Wentz is keeping his mouth shut and not burning bridges. If the Eagles like an offer, they will trade him. If they don't, they'll keep him. Either way, they're on the hook for his cap number, so --- even though it looks to negadelphia that the Eagles blowing this, they are wise not to accept a lowball offer. There's still a lot of time to make a deal --- there's still a lot of time before the roster bonus kicks in if you care about that (personally, I don't really care about that). 

 

The only "red flags" with Wentz is the bad season he's coming off of.  The rest are unsubstantiated rumors about his person. Teammates and coaches that put their names behind their words have never said bad things about him.  We heard the report from Jenkins that was critical of how some or all of the coaches "coached" him, but he never actually attacked Carson. In fact, he said this when he was still on the team:

"Well, I didn’t read the whole article. I only started responding when people tried to say I was the one making the quotes, which is crazy," Jenkins said (via Justin Granit of CBS Tampa). "I think any great player is going to be confident. Any great player is going to know what he likes, is going to be demanding. I’m the same way with the D coordinator, where I can go say 'no, I don’t want to run this.' So I think him being assertive or anything like that is what you want out of your starting quarterback. He’s a leader.

 

"I think at any point in time when you don’t understand something, you start to speculate. And I think it’s been hard for people to grasp how we’ve had two starting quarterbacks both contribute to success the last two years and not have any issues.

"But Carson’s a good teammate. I have nothing bad to say about him. … He’s a great player on the field, a great teammate off."

[brkmsn]

2 minutes ago, EagleMatt said:

Agree with everything but the bolded part. Every team dealt with this abd Wentz was the worst qb in the league. Their trash play was on him and the team.

I actually feel like the Eagles as a team respond better to the fan energy in the stadium. It's not always an instant thing --- we boo them at halftime and they respond in the 2nd half --- but even going back to the Reid years, we have recovered from slow season starts with strong finishes in December. These players needed real fans this year. There was a disconnect because of the empty stadium and the team's performance was lackluster all around.

[EagleMatt]

2 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I actually feel like the Eagles as a team respond better to the fan energy in the stadium. It's not always an instant thing --- we boo them at halftime and they respond in the 2nd half --- but even going back to the Reid years, we have recovered from slow season starts with strong finishes in December. These players needed real fans this year. There was a disconnect because of the empty stadium and the team's performance was lackluster all around.

I suppose. But if these guys need fans to give them a reason to play harder, they gotta go. Lack of motivation doesn't sit right with me.

[brkmsn]

3 minutes ago, EagleMatt said:

I suppose. But if these guys need fans to give them a reason to play harder, they gotta go. Lack of motivation doesn't sit right with me.

If that were true, you would have no desire to go to games. If that were true, there would be no such thing as HFA. 

[EagleMatt]

28 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

If that were true, you would have no desire to go to games. If that were true, there would be no such thing as HFA. 

I honestly pay no attention to HFA.

[brkmsn]

1 minute ago, EagleMatt said:

I honestly pay no attention to HFA.

Vegas does --- since there's so much money involved.

[EazyEaglez]

7 hours ago, Hawkeye said:

You’re spot on. The Eagles totally misjudged the market for Wentz - there isn’t much of one, as it turns out.  I just get stuck trying to figure out their endgame.  I said earlier that when Doug got clipped I thought they were going to try to get Wentz back on track and develop Hurts.   It’s can’t just be a salary dump because $34mm per year is the going rate.  So why?

It’s a multi-faceted problem they have here. Wentz has been babied by them so long he thinks he’s been mistreated even though they dumped the coaches and coordinators he hated, dumped the quarterback he was intimidated by, dumped the players who challenged his leadership, and gave him a truckload of money. You can’t "fix” someone who doesn’t think there is a problem and that’s another issue. He’s out there duck hunting instead of working to improve his technique. On top of all this he’s doesn’t want to be an Eagle. His people told everyone this back in December, but the apologists didn’t want to believe it. The Eagles are trying to save face and get at least a first for Wentz so they don’t look like fools if Wentz turns it around. They’re trying to preemptively win the deal, but they figured this thing wrong. If they bring Wentz back nothing good will come from it. The guy will be roasted in the media, booed if he stinks, and his teammates will be even less willing to play for him. The Eagles have until March to make a move, but the closer they get to the deadline the less likely a deal happens. I think Howie is trying hard to create a trade market for Wentz that isn’t there. What team wants to give up a first for a quarterback that was clearly one of the statistical worst for all of 2020, but makes top five quarterback pay? A GM and coach could get fired if Wentz isn’t good or can’t be reformed. The best option here is to get the best deal you can and just walk away from this mess. By 2022 the Eagles could be out of their cap issues and ready to make a run again. 

[Infam]

26 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

What team wants to give up a first for a quarterback that was clearly one of the statistical worst for all of 2020, but makes top five quarterback pay?

Agree with most you said, but when it comes to QBs perceived potential is all that counts. And Wentz is still seen as someone who might be fixable.

If you were right about the top 5 pay, maybe that would prevent a good deal. And he is payed that on the Eagles. But he wouldn't be payed that when he gets traded. A team trading for Wentz would pay 25M the first year (as of now #15 in the NFL) and 22M in 2022, with about 40M in guarantees. After these two years you can cut him without any dead cap.

So while clearly a risk, his contract is not bad at all. And if he does get back to form, the contract actually would be very good for a team.

 

[Talonblood]

5 hours ago, brkmsn said:

On the contrary! They're just letting the Philly fans and media tear down the person like they always do and using that and time for leverage in negotiations. If you think Wentz is the QB you will build your team around, a 1st rd pick is nothing --- especially a late 1st. Come back to me when an actual deal is done --- then we will more correctly see what a team is willing to part with. It would be great to already know what will happen, but since we don't, the media just keeps stringing us a long like fools with these "reports."

--- Anonymous player says Wentz checks down too much ---

--- Anonymous player says Wentz not checking down enough ---

--- Anonymous lineman complained to Doug about Wentz, asking to replace him ---

--- Wentz is selfish and a terrible teammate ---

--- Wentz and Pederson's relationship beyond repair ---

--- Wentz gets Doug fired ---

--- Doug was fired because he wanted to move forward with Hurts ---

--- Doug was fired because he wanted to stick with Wentz ---

--- Eagles after Lincoln Riley, committing to Hurts ---

--- Eagles job not appealing to coach prospects ---

--- Eagles Hire Sirianni to commit to Wentz ---

--- Wentz trade very near, will be done in the next day or so ---

--- Bears offer 1st, Cohen and Foles for Wentz --- 

--- Bears increasingly impatient with Eagles in trade talks ---

--- Highest offer so far, two 2nds from Colts --- 

--- Eagles still feel Wentz could be their guy if no trade happens ---

--- Eagles Logical landing spot for Wilson --- 

--- The reason for Wentz' issues with the Eagles, not Doug, but Howie ---

Keep on clicking and retweeting, guys. They love it. Meanwhile, Wentz is keeping his mouth shut and not burning bridges. If the Eagles like an offer, they will trade him. If they don't, they'll keep him. Either way, they're on the hook for his cap number, so --- even though it looks to negadelphia that the Eagles blowing this, they are wise not to accept a lowball offer. There's still a lot of time to make a deal --- there's still a lot of time before the roster bonus kicks in if you care about that (personally, I don't really care about that). 

 

The only "red flags" with Wentz is the bad season he's coming off of.  The rest are unsubstantiated rumors about his person. Teammates and coaches that put their names behind their words have never said bad things about him.  We heard the report from Jenkins that was critical of how some or all of the coaches "coached" him, but he never actually attacked Carson. In fact, he said this when he was still on the team:

"Well, I didn’t read the whole article. I only started responding when people tried to say I was the one making the quotes, which is crazy," Jenkins said (via Justin Granit of CBS Tampa). "I think any great player is going to be confident. Any great player is going to know what he likes, is going to be demanding. I’m the same way with the D coordinator, where I can go say 'no, I don’t want to run this.' So I think him being assertive or anything like that is what you want out of your starting quarterback. He’s a leader.

 

"I think at any point in time when you don’t understand something, you start to speculate. And I think it’s been hard for people to grasp how we’ve had two starting quarterbacks both contribute to success the last two years and not have any issues.

"But Carson’s a good teammate. I have nothing bad to say about him. … He’s a great player on the field, a great teammate off."

This is a REALLY good post. Nice job by you.