Carson Wentz discussion: no new topics about Wentz.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

5 hours ago, Swoop said:

I disagree that he can't do it. I think he can if the system around him isn't garbage. Rarely do we see ANYONE on this team open and they've shown a number of times they can't make tough catches and like to drop the ball.

I'm not saying Wentz is blameless. I'm at the point where I've grown tired of him, as well, but I would like to see if a new staff could get him right again.

Its as clear to me as anything, Doug and co. need to go. Period.  

I mean sure that's fine and that's your opinion bud. You may well be right and I'm sure the organisation will go that route before giving up with Wentz. 

I'm at that point though where I've given up on him. I have zero expectations of him. He's a bottom half of the league QB to me and I don't think that's going to change. 

[EaglesfanfromND]

Let's look at the plays when Wentz isn't the QB to determine a few things.

When Hurts was in Kelce made a bad snap to him too. So I don't think there was anything to Kelce's piss poor snaps yesterday then simply piss poor snaps. 

Every time Hurts is in the game it appears to be the same exact play or similar variation of it. A very simple read option run play to one side or the other. Is that because Doug doesn't trust him to run more plays? Is that because he can't grasp more plays they've tried to teach him? Is that just another sign of piss poor coaching? If this mass coaching conglomerate can't even figure out how to make a few more plays for Hurts how do we expect this offense to function at all? WTF are these coaches doing on a daily basis???

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, EaglesfanfromND said:

Is that because Doug doesn't trust him to run more plays?

Its because this offensive scheme has zero creativity and imagination. I saw the same motion movement twice from Reagor in the same quarter (I'm pretty sure it was at least as we were facing the same direction both times) but it could have been separate quarters. 

[EaglesfanfromND]

1 minute ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Its because this offensive scheme has zero creativity and imagination. I saw the same motion movement twice from Reagor in the same quarter (I'm pretty sure it was at least as we were facing the same direction both times) but it could have been separate quarters. 

I don't know why he has a damn poster card because he only calls about 10 different plays a game. He could get by with a fricking post it note!

[NOTW]

In Doug's PC today, a reporter asked him about the NFL Network report from Mike Silver that Carson has sloppy practice habits that have crept into the games.  Doug defended Carson.

For reference:

 

 

 

[Road to Victory]

4 hours ago, Madriver said:

Agreed. Hurts has shown nothing, no gamebreaking speed, moderate accuracy. And behind that line he would get killed.

That’s what I thought from the time they drafted him. He’s not a special player, he’s a good runner but not a great runner (like Vick or Lamar). He’s a decent passer but not a great passer. Not only did Howie get the position wrong he drafted Hurts way too early. I doubt he would’ve lasted until the 4th round but that’s what he has written all over him, 4th round talent. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

20 minutes ago, EaglesfanfromND said:

I don't know why he has a damn poster card because he only calls about 10 different plays a game. He could get by with a fricking post it note!

Most of the space on the poster card says "repeat play X, repeat play Y".

[Swoop]

30 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

That’s what I thought from the time they drafted him. He’s not a special player, he’s a good runner but not a great runner (like Vick or Lamar). He’s a decent passer but not a great passer. Not only did Howie get the position wrong he drafted Hurts way too early. I doubt he would’ve lasted until the 4th round but that’s what he has written all over him, 4th round talent. 

And yet everyone is obsessed with Justin Fields. They're virtually the same player. Similar in size, too. 

I think Fields is a better prospect overall. Better arm, slightly bigger, but they're the same player.

Both resemble Dak, IMO.

Not sure I get the obsession with him.

[phil77]

37 minutes ago, NOTW said:

In Doug's PC today, a reporter asked him about the NFL Network report from Mike Silver that Carson has sloppy practice habits that have crept into the games.  Doug defended Carson.

For reference:

 

 

 

 

 

Does Mike Silver go to practice and watch?  Is this another unnamed source?  He made it sound like it was a fact he saw first hand and didn't claim it to be from someone else how can that be the case? 

[T-1000]

I can't believe there are still making excuses for this guy.

Let me get a few things out of the way first. Has Doug Pederson had a terrible year coaching this team, yes. The play calling is bland, his decision making is extremely questionable, and he seems like a beaten man. Has there been a ton of injuries on the OL, yes. There are also problems that go beyond the offense. Schwartz needs to go. Howie has done a terrible job as GM since everything he touched turned to gold in 2017. All of these things are valid points and concerns which need to be addressed.

HOWEVER. There is no amount of coaching, no amount of great OL, and no amount of great skilled players which will make up for the fact that Wentz is a terrible decision maker and is wildly inaccurate. I was watching that game yesterday and there was a play in the first half where Wentz was under pressure and ran outside and threw the ball out of the bounds. At first I was thinking myself ''great play'' and then I realized that's how bad he has regressed that making a basic decision like that seems good. Don't even get me started on the fact that he missed several wide open guys yesterday with poor throws, including some that were 5 yard passes.

Here is the other thing that the Wentz excuse makers seem to want to gloss over and it's kind of a big deal. When you are paid over 100 million dollars and supposed to be a ''franchise QB'' you are supposed to make the team better. You are supposed to bring up the level of play of those around you. You are supposed to cover up for poor coaching and the mistakes of others. That is what elite QB's do. Not only is he not doing that, he is also a big part of the problem on his own.

The excuses need to stop and people need to realize that Wentz, while a great talent, just isn't a very good QB and that isn't going to all of a sudden change when he is getting worse in year five of his career. The best thing this team can do is lose every single game the rest of the way and hopefully be in a position to draft a QB in the first round if they don't see Hurts as the potential answer. Hopefully it's a new GM and coach making that decision but that's another conversation for another time.

[NOTW]

2 minutes ago, phil77 said:

 

 

Does Mike Silver go to practice and watch?  Is this another unnamed source?  He made it sound like it was a fact he saw first hand and didn't claim it to be from someone else how can that be the case? 

that was Doug's point, he said who is saying this the reporters have such limited access to practice. 

[T-1000]

1 minute ago, phil77 said:

 

 

Does Mike Silver go to practice and watch?  Is this another unnamed source?  He made it sound like it was a fact he saw first hand and didn't claim it to be from someone else how can that be the case? 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that something is extremely ''off'' with this team and the QB right now. Putting two and two together brings one to that conclusion. If an NFL insider says something like this I would tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's fair to say that Wentz and Doug are both the problem but the interesting part is which is the chicken and which is the egg. I can only go off of factual evidence and when the coach has had incredible success with an average NFL QB in the past and can't seem to do the same with Wentz that tells me Wentz is the bigger problem.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

9 minutes ago, T-1000 said:

It's fair to say that Wentz and Doug are both the problem but the interesting part is which is the chicken and which is the egg

I don't even know if it's chicken or egg. I think both are eggs that have gone off. Both are the issue I don't think it's one or the other. I don't think Doug is making Wentz a bad QB. I don't think Wentz is making Doug a bad play caller. They both have make major issues.

[T-1000]

2 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I don't even know if it's chicken or egg. I think both are eggs that have gone off. Both are the issue I don't think it's one or the other. I don't think Doug is making Wentz a bad QB. I don't think Wentz is making Doug a bad play caller. They both have make major issues.

I would agree.

[XoqTionR]

2 hours ago, EaglesfanfromND said:

Let's look at the plays when Wentz isn't the QB to determine a few things.

When Hurts was in Kelce made a bad snap to him too. So I don't think there was anything to Kelce's piss poor snaps yesterday then simply piss poor snaps. 

Every time Hurts is in the game it appears to be the same exact play or similar variation of it. A very simple read option run play to one side or the other. Is that because Doug doesn't trust him to run more plays? Is that because he can't grasp more plays they've tried to teach him? Is that just another sign of piss poor coaching? If this mass coaching conglomerate can't even figure out how to make a few more plays for Hurts how do we expect this offense to function at all? WTF are these coaches doing on a daily basis???

I think Kelce is in win now mode and thinks Wentz gave the best option. He's hikedd the ball bad more than once this season to Hurts. I think coaches aren't letting Hurts throw because they don't want an all out QB controversy. At this point I don't think it matters and coaches should loosen the reigns on Hurts.

[XoqTionR]

1 hour ago, Road to Victory said:

That’s what I thought from the time they drafted him. He’s not a special player, he’s a good runner but not a great runner (like Vick or Lamar). He’s a decent passer but not a great passer. Not only did Howie get the position wrong he drafted Hurts way too early. I doubt he would’ve lasted until the 4th round but that’s what he has written all over him, 4th round talent. 

Hurts hasn't even been allowed to play, how can anyone form this opinion? Carson had multiple years, still starting and rapidly going down hill.

[NOTW]

Kelce is good for a couple bad snaps a season, it was odd to have so many this season but overall he's still a great player.  

This team does remind me of the 2012 team that went 4-12 where even good players under performed, it becomes like a cancer that spreads and losing creates a defeated attitude sometimes.

[Road to Victory]

3 minutes ago, XoqTionR said:

Hurts hasn't even been allowed to play, how can anyone form this opinion? Carson had multiple years, still starting and rapidly going down hill.

I watched him in college. 

[JetroLot]

Can we all stop and consider something? When Donovan McNabb was here, a lot of us questioned his leadership even while we liked him. I think that's a very, very, very fair assessment of Eagles' fans with Donovan here. People wondered if he could lead. My point is this, other than Hollis Thomas saying something to a guy in Delco or Ike Reese letting something slip once in a while, you didn't hear much from the Eagles themselves about Donovan being a leadership problem until Terrell Owens arrived and let's be honest, TO was a f'ing headcase. Christ, he was beautiful to watch though. Moving to my next point though...

All we have heard about Carson Wentz is that there are problems behind the scenes. It has been non-stop. First was the Joe Santoquilito (I don't care how you spell it) story, then a follow up from Jimmy Kempski, then another shot across the bow from other sources, then we had several burner accounts nailing him, then another issue, then more ... IT NEVER STOPS with Carson Wentz. 

Doug says, "well that guy isn't at practices". 

OK Doug, why is someone always on Carson Wentz then man?!?! After a while, the smoke it obviously at least a little bit of fire. 

Am I the only one who has gone from dismissing this stuff to now really buying into Carson may be a f'ing headcase? Tell me I'm wrong and that these are all a string of random acts. 

[McNabbIsDone]

5 hours ago, LacesOut said:

He got paid. He got married. He had a kid.  

He has had injuries. Injuries to his O Line, to his WRs, to his TE's, to his RBs.

Just a mess right now. 

Y'know something just jumped out to me that I hadn't considered before. I'm not normally one to make excuses or anything . . . 

but what if that devastating head-shot by Clowney really did get into his head??  He suffered memory loss and I read somewhere

that his wife was crying all over herself after the fact. If so it provides a pretty stark dividing line before & after the event. This is

the only thing I can think of that makes any sense whatsoever. Something else to ponder . . .  

[Madriver]

3 hours ago, XoqTionR said:

Hurts hasn't even been allowed to play, how can anyone form this opinion? Carson had multiple years, still starting and rapidly going down hill.

Saying Hurts is not the answer does not necessarily=Wentz is the answer. They could both suck. If Hurts was capable, he's be the starter, IMO, and Wentz would've been benched by now.

[Swoop]

1 hour ago, stinkfist said:

Can we all stop and consider something? When Donovan McNabb was here, a lot of us questioned his leadership even while we liked him. I think that's a very, very, very fair assessment of Eagles' fans with Donovan here. People wondered if he could lead. My point is this, other than Hollis Thomas saying something to a guy in Delco or Ike Reese letting something slip once in a while, you didn't hear much from the Eagles themselves about Donovan being a leadership problem until Terrell Owens arrived and let's be honest, TO was a f'ing headcase. Christ, he was beautiful to watch though. Moving to my next point though...

All we have heard about Carson Wentz is that there are problems behind the scenes. It has been non-stop. First was the Joe Santoquilito (I don't care how you spell it) story, then a follow up from Jimmy Kempski, then another shot across the bow from other sources, then we had several burner accounts nailing him, then another issue, then more ... IT NEVER STOPS with Carson Wentz. 

Doug says, "well that guy isn't at practices". 

OK Doug, why is someone always on Carson Wentz then man?!?! After a while, the smoke it obviously at least a little bit of fire. 

Am I the only one who has gone from dismissing this stuff to now really buying into Carson may be a f'ing headcase? Tell me I'm wrong and that these are all a string of random acts. 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but we are in a very different spot than we were 15+ years ago as a society and with social media. Everything is at everyone's finger tips now.

[CaliEagle]

1 hour ago, Madriver said:

Saying Hurts is not the answer does not necessarily=Wentz is the answer. They could both suck. If Hurts was capable, he's be the starter, IMO, and Wentz would've been benched by now.

What I don't understand is they have Hurts as the #2, yet they don't feel he is ready. Then, why is he the #2?  Just for a few gadget plays?  The coaching staff is making dumb decisions this year.  The Eagles should be considering benching Wentz for a game or two, but if neither Sudfeld or Hurts is ready...then why isn't there a competent #2 QB on this roster especially if this is the "QB factory"?

[philafan4o8]

1 hour ago, CaliEagle said:

What I don't understand is they have Hurts as the #2, yet they don't feel he is ready. Then, why is he the #2?  Just for a few gadget plays?  The coaching staff is making dumb decisions this year.  The Eagles should be considering benching Wentz for a game or two, but if neither Sudfeld or Hurts is ready...then why isn't there a competent #2 QB on this roster especially if this is the "QB factory"?

I respectfully disagree. They won't bench Wentz for the same reason Mailata is not at LT.

1. $$$$$

2. Doug and Howie hate to admit they are wrong.

Benching your Franchise QB you paid over $100M for is a catastrophic move that would put both of them on the hotseat since Wentz is pretty much tied to both of their jobs. They are hoping he turns it around so they are willing to give him every opportunity to save their jobs.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, philafan4o8 said:

I respectfully disagree. They won't bench Wentz for the same reason Mailata is not at LT.

1. $$$$$

2. Doug and Howie hate to admit they are wrong.

Benching your Franchise QB you paid over $100M for is a catastrophic move that would put both of them on the hotseat since Wentz is pretty much tied to both of their jobs. They are hoping he turns it around so they are willing to give him every opportunity to save their jobs.

 

You're right, they won't bench him because that puts them on the hotseat.

The irony? Not benching him also puts them on the hotseat.

At least if they bench him and Hurts can get something going for this team then perhaps they can save their jobs. I mean that's a great story for them both surely? To say oh look we drafted this guy as insurance, we were slated for that move but here is that player and he's working. We made a difficult decision but we made the right one for the team.