Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[EazyEaglez]

33 minutes ago, Talonblood said:

True dat, true dat. I am cautiously optimistic moving forward. He does have the tools and seeks to improve. Good signs. He isn't like Ben Simmons. Shi_t, I said the B word.

That basket ball player you mentioned is completely lost in his own delusions of greatness. He needs to be on an obscure team somewhere he can  be a big fish in a jump shootingless pond where he can get all the praise in a useless reality. I wish they could trade him to an Australian team. 

[Infam]

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Do you know what? I think with the schedule this team has I don't think there's going to be too much getting ahead of ourselves. This team has a rough schedule coming up that will likely put things in to perspective a little. That's not to say we will lose them all but just that things are going to get tough.

You are making sense, but really I would feel a lot worse if everyone would say the next games were "easy wins”.

[BayAreaLennie]

45 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Pretty sure Shanghai is more of an offensive mind than a defensive one. The 49ers just gave up 33 points to the Lions. They also lost their defensive coordinator from last season too. Let’s not act like the 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens are showing up to the Linc. I’m not saying we should take them lightly, but the Eagles shouldn’t be scared of the 49ers defense. 

The point is more that the 49ers will have this week's game film and Shanahan is a good enough coach to make sure his defensive coordinator will have a game plan that includes trying to take away the short passes that were successful this week.  The 49ers are not a juggernaut on defense, but I expect them to be a stiffer test than the Falcons were this week.

And in this Jalen Hurts thread, all of that is kind of peripheral to the real main point, which is that I would like to see Hurts show he can consistently complete intermediate route throws.  I see that he can deliver short throws, see that he can escape pressure, see that he can make first downs using his legs, see that he has command of the offense and leadership abilities -- now what I want to see is the ability to deliver 15 and 20 yard throws under the pressure of a good NFL defense.  I think the jury is still out on that, and that is what I will be looking for from Hurts in the weeks to come. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

The 49ers just gave up 33 points to the Lions. 

They were up 38-10 and went to prevent defense.  They dominated the first half.

[Seventy_Yard_FG]

So I’m watching highlights and one thing I’m noticing.

it seems to me Hurts must have put some effort into studying how to avoid getting hurt.  There’s a way he goes into forward diving for extra yards that doesn’t strike me as excessively violent but still gets that extra half yard or so over just sliding.

in a way he reminds me of Desean Jackson early in his career, who anyone would have thought being so small would invariably get injured often but he didn’t (early in his career).  People would tackle him but it’s kind of like tackling a feather.  You can hit a feather as hard as you like and sure it will go down but that true if you hit it hard or soft.

 

Hurts looks slightly different but I see the same sort of thing

now I don’t want to jinx of course…

[EagleVA]

4 hours ago, Mauserbob said:

I'm all in on him. 

Oh Boy, Hurts is now cursed as was Fulgham.

[EazyEaglez]

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

They were up 38-10 and went to prevent defense.  They dominated the first half.

They still gave up 33 points. The Eagles were up big and still only gave up 6. 

[EazyEaglez]

52 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

The point is more that the 49ers will have this week's game film and Shanahan is a good enough coach to make sure his defensive coordinator will have a game plan that includes trying to take away the short passes that were successful this week.  The 49ers are not a juggernaut on defense, but I expect them to be a stiffer test than the Falcons were this week.

And in this Jalen Hurts thread, all of that is kind of peripheral to the real main point, which is that I would like to see Hurts show he can consistently complete intermediate route throws.  I see that he can deliver short throws, see that he can escape pressure, see that he can make first downs using his legs, see that he has command of the offense and leadership abilities -- now what I want to see is the ability to deliver 15 and 20 yard throws under the pressure of a good NFL defense.  I think the jury is still out on that, and that is what I will be looking for from Hurts in the weeks to come. 

Jalen Hurts was 7-8 in intermediate throws against the Falcons. I personally don’t really care if Hurts  dinks and dunks his way to another victory with occasional first down runs anymore than watching him throwing a bunch of bombs downfield either. Winning is what matters most. 

[Outlaw]

6 hours ago, downundermike said:

Tell me the running QB's that have won a Super Bowl.

I don’t view Hurts as a "running QB.” He’s much more Russell Wilson than Mike Vick in terms of style. That read option where he faked the handoff to Miles right and veered left was a thing of beauty though. 

1 hour ago, BayAreaLennie said:

The point is more that the 49ers will have this week's game film and Shanahan is a good enough coach to make sure his defensive coordinator will have a game plan that includes trying to take away the short passes that were successful this week.  The 49ers are not a juggernaut on defense, but I expect them to be a stiffer test than the Falcons were this week.

And in this Jalen Hurts thread, all of that is kind of peripheral to the real main point, which is that I would like to see Hurts show he can consistently complete intermediate route throws.  I see that he can deliver short throws, see that he can escape pressure, see that he can make first downs using his legs, see that he has command of the offense and leadership abilities -- now what I want to see is the ability to deliver 15 and 20 yard throws under the pressure of a good NFL defense.  I think the jury is still out on that, and that is what I will be looking for from Hurts in the weeks to come. 

See below. 

50 minutes ago, downundermike said:

They were up 38-10 and went to prevent defense.  They dominated the first half.

I think the prevent had more to do with losing Jason Verrett and having 2-3 JAGs out there at CB. The Niners have a VERY exploitable secondary if the oline can hold up against Bosa and the rest. I am DEFINITELY looking forward to Mailata next week. I am head over heels in love with the Jolly Green Giant. 

[Traveler Vic]

5 hours ago, downundermike said:

I am tempering expectations for now.  The Falcons are one of the worst teams in the league.  Going to see a much better team next week.

It certainly felt good to manhandle the Falcons. Their D was not that bad. Next week will be different, but I have faith that we will not suck.

[EagleJoe8]

6 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

 

I think the prevent had more to do with losing Jason Verrett and having 2-3 JAGs out there at CB. The Niners have a VERY exploitable secondary if the oline can hold up against Bosa and the rest. I am DEFINITELY looking forward to Mailata next week. I am head over heels in love with the Jolly Green Giant. 

It's funny seeing his rugby highlights, how he's just a mountain of a man compared to everyone else. I want a pic of him standing next to Sproles lol.

[brkmsn]

2 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

It's funny seeing his rugby highlights, how he's just a mountain of a man compared to everyone else. I want a pic of him standing next to Sproles lol.

Not Sproles, but almost

 

 

[EagleJoe8]

Just now, brkmsn said:

Not Sproles, but almost

 

 

I think I remember seeing that.

[BayAreaLennie]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Jalen Hurts was 7-8 in intermediate throws against the Falcons. I personally don’t really care if Hurts dinks and dunks his way to another victory with occasional first down runs anymore than watching him throwing a bunch of bombs downfield either. Winning is what matters most. 

Where did you get the 7 for 8 on intermediate throws statistic?  That is encouraging and I would be curious to see the whole data set.

I found an interesting statistic on NextGenStats called Air Yards to The Sticks (AYTS), which measures how many yards on average a QB's intended targets were short of or past the first down line.  The lower (or more negative) the AYTS, the more the QB dinked and dunked short of the line, relying on his receivers for YAC to pick up first downs.  This week, Hurts' AYTS was the lowest in the NFL at -6.2.  The other 4 lowest were Kirk Cousins (-5.4), Matt Ryan (5.0), Andy Dalton (4.6) and Carson Wentz (-3.5), all of whose teams lost this week, most of them convincingly.  The 4 highest AYTS QBs this week were Tyrod Taylor (3.4), Russell Wilson (2.6), Patrick Mahomes (1.7) and Matt Stafford (0.9), all of whose teams won this week, most of them convincingly.  See Next Gen Stats passing stats.

So while I agree with you completely that I would be happy to see Hurts dink and dunk his way to Eagles wins, that data suggests that dinking and dunking is not a model for winning consistently, especially against better teams.  Simply put, winning QBs seem to tend to try to get the ball further downfield.  I will be looking to see how successful Hurts is on stretching his throws further downfield in the coming weeks.

[EazyEaglez]

10 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

Where did you get the 7 for 8 on intermediate throws statistic?  That is encouraging and I would be curious to see the whole data set.

I found an interesting statistic on NextGenStats called Air Yards to The Sticks (AYTS), which measures how many yards on average a QB's intended targets were short of or past the first down line.  The lower (or more negative) the AYTS, the more the QB dinked and dunked short of the line, relying on his receivers for YAC to pick up first downs.  This week, Hurts' AYTS was the lowest in the NFL at -6.2.  The other 4 lowest were Kirk Cousins (-5.4), Matt Ryan (5.0), Andy Dalton (4.6) and Carson Wentz (-3.5), all of whose teams lost this week, most of them convincingly.  The highest AYTS QBs this week were Tyrod Taylor (3.4), Russell Wilson (2.6), Patrick Mahomes (1.7) and Matt Stafford (0.9), all of whose teams won this week, most of them convincingly.  See Next Gen Stats passing stats.

So while I agree with you completely that I would be happy to see Hurts dink and dunk his way to Eagles wins, that data suggests that dinking and dunking is not a model for winning consistently, especially against better teams.  Simply put, winning QBs seem to tend to try to get the ball further downfield.  I will be looking to see how successful Hurts is on stretching his throws further downfield in the coming weeks.

I heard the stat on the radio, but off the top of my head I can think of the incomplete pass when Hurts threw than underhanded pass on the sidelines. Two of his touchdown passes were beyond 10 yard throws. His under thrown pass to Ertz was a completion. Nearly every completion to Smith was 10 or more and I remember a particular throw to Smith on third and long with a blitz coming. Stats are misleading. For example according to what you wrote Hurts was the worse at -6.2. Playing in that same game Matt Ryan was a 5.0. According to this stat Hurt was worse than Ryan. Now let's look at both players QBR and Passer ratings. Matt Rayan was a 17.6 QBR  and a 71.6 passer rating. Jalen Hurts was a 72.9 QBR and a 126.4 passer rating. According to your stat Hurts was the worst player, but according to both his passer rating and QBR, Hurts was by far the better quarterback. Bottom line a player can throw it deep or short, but it really doesn't mean that it guarantees wins or losses. Personally I know that Hurts can throw the ball downfield when he needs to, because we have seen it before. Jameis Winston threw for less than 150 yards against the Packers, but does that mean he had a bad game? Heck no, because he threw 5 touchdown passes.

[eagle45]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Jalen Hurts was 7-8 in intermediate throws against the Falcons. I personally don’t really care if Hurts  dinks and dunks his way to another victory with occasional first down runs anymore than watching him throwing a bunch of bombs downfield either. Winning is what matters most. 

Look, Hurts was great and exceeded expectations.

But a week 1 victory against a team that might be THE worst in the NFL (or close to it) does not earn the ~winning is what matters most let's disregard how we got there~ distinction.

[time2rock]

On 9/13/2021 at 8:37 PM, eagle45 said:

Look, Hurts was great and exceeded expectations.

But a week 1 victory against a team that might be THE worst in the NFL (or close to it) does not earn the ~winning is what matters most let's disregard how we got there~ distinction.

Too many times over the past several years we saw this team play down to its competition.  That was encouraging to see them dominate a team that likely will be one of the worst.

Sirianni schemed for Hurts to get rid of the ball quickly on short to intermediate throws … that was smart.  How many times did we see Doug continually call bombs from Wentz when the OL was a mess, Wentz was struggling mightily, and the receivers sucked?  It was great to see a HC/OC finally scheme to allow Hurts to get comfortable and make the plays he did.  

Obviously only one game but good start.  

[BayAreaLennie]

2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I heard the stat on the radio, but off the top of my head I can think of the incomplete pass when Hurts threw than underhanded pass on the sidelines. Two of his touchdown passes were beyond 10 yard throws. His under thrown pass to Ertz was a completion. Nearly every completion to Smith was 10 or more and I remember a particular throw to Smith on third and long with a blitz coming. Stats are misleading. For example according to what you wrote Hurts was the worse at -6.2. Playing in that same game Matt Ryan was a 5.0. According to this stat Hurt was worse than Ryan. Now let's look at both players QBR and Passer ratings. Matt Rayan was a 17.6 QBR  and a 71.6 passer rating. Jalen Hurts was a 72.9 QBR and a 126.4 passer rating. According to your stat Hurts was the worst player, but according to both his passer rating and QBR, Hurts was by far the better quarterback. Bottom line a player can throw it deep or short, but it really doesn't mean that it guarantees wins or losses. Personally I know that Hurts can throw the ball downfield when he needs to, because we have seen it before. Jameis Winston threw for less than 150 yards against the Packers, but does that mean he had a bad game? Heck no, because he threw 5 touchdown passes.

I would quibble with the general basis of the above, because it characterizes AYTS as determining that Hurts was the "worst" QB this week.  It is true that Hurts had the "lowest" AYTS this week, but AYTS is not a measure of worst or best, it is a measure of throwing short or throwing long.  QBs can lead their team to success throwing the ball short in a game - this week, there were QBs with low AYTS that played well, and QBs with high AYTS that did not.  Hurts was very successful throwing the ball short against the Falcons and the Eagles won the game easily, so that was indeed a recipe for success in this game.  Hurts throwing the ball short was THE RIGHT THING TO DO (capitalized for emphasis), and by no means an indication that he did not play well - quite the opposite, he played very well, and I never said otherwise.

That said, the win-loss record of QBs with low and high (not "worst" and "best") AYTS this week suggests that *consistently* throwing the ball short *week after week* is probably not a recipe for consistent success.  Most of the most successful QBs this week had a high AYTS, and most of the least successful QBs this week had a low AYTS.  A consistently winning QB will have the ability to have games where they throw the ball further downfield than Hurts did in this one -- i.e., where they have a high AYTS.

I have not seen Hurts throw the ball downfield well in the NFL on a demonstrated consistent basis.  I hope to see him show that in future weeks, because I believe it is an incredibly important trait for a QB to have, and I do not think the dink and dunk tactic will work every week.  He simply did not have the opportunity to show it in this game, in which the short passes worked for him extremely well.

[EagleJoe8]

6 minutes ago, time2rock said:

Too many times over the past several years we saw this team play down to its competition.  That was encouraging to see them dominate a team that likely be one of the worst.

Sirianni schemed for Hurts to get rid of the ball quickly on short to intermediate throws … that was smart.  How many times did we see Doug continually call bombs from Wentz when the OL was a mess, Wentz was struggling mightily, and the receivers sucked?  It was great to see a HC/OC finally scheme to allow Hurts to get comfortable and make the plays he did.  

Obviously only one game but good start.  

Yup. I know it's a bad opponent, and I'm not reading more into it than what's there, but since I don't really care for the Falcons, I enjoyed it. Plus, I like when we win in stadiums we haven't won in yet.

[EazyEaglez]

37 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

I would quibble with the general basis of the above, because it characterizes AYTS as determining that Hurts was the "worst" QB this week.  It is true that Hurts had the "lowest" AYTS this week, but AYTS is not a measure of worst or best, it is a measure of throwing short or throwing long.  QBs can lead their team to success throwing the ball short in a game - this week, there were QBs with low AYTS that played well, and QBs with high AYTS that did not.  Hurts was very successful throwing the ball short against the Falcons and the Eagles won the game easily, so that was indeed a recipe for success in this game.  Hurts throwing the ball short was THE RIGHT THING TO DO (capitalized for emphasis), and by no means an indication that he did not play well - quite the opposite, he played very well, and I never said otherwise.

That said, the win-loss record of QBs with low and high (not "worst" and "best") AYTS this week suggests that *consistently* throwing the ball short *week after week* is probably not a recipe for consistent success.  Most of the most successful QBs this week had a high AYTS, and most of the least successful QBs this week had a low AYTS.  A consistently winning QB will have the ability to have games where they throw the ball further downfield than Hurts did in this one -- i.e., where they have a high AYTS.

I have not seen Hurts throw the ball downfield well in the NFL on a demonstrated consistent basis.  I hope to see him show that in future weeks, because I believe it is an incredibly important trait for a QB to have, and I do not think the dink and dunk tactic will work every week.  He simply did not have the opportunity to show it in this game, in which the short passes worked for him extremely well.

I’ve witnessed Hurts throw the football downfield in the past so I’m not concerned that I didn’t see it. It wasn’t necessary to have to throw 50/50 passes that frankly are less likely to be completed than short ones. I’ll worry more about that if he has to thrown downfield and is unable to do so. Jalen Hurts completed 77% of short and intermediate passes yesterday against that Falcons and that’s fine. On to the 49ers. 

[EazyEaglez]

1 hour ago, eagle45 said:

Look, Hurts was great and exceeded expectations.

But a week 1 victory against a team that might be THE worst in the NFL (or close to it) does not earn the ~winning is what matters most let's disregard how we got there~ distinction.

Well we lost to that team the last time we played them and every win deserves a winning is what mattered especially one where the team won because of the quarterback instead of like last season when we won games despite of the quarterback. 

[BayAreaLennie]

8 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I’ve witnessed Hurts throw the football downfield in the past so I’m not concerned that I didn’t see it. It wasn’t necessary to have to throw 50/50 passes that frankly are less likely to be completed than short ones. I’ll worry more about that if he has to thrown downfield and is unable to do so. Jalen Hurts completed 77% of short and intermediate passes yesterday against that Falcons and that’s fine. On to the 49ers. 

So you've seen enough to believe Hurts is a potential Super Bowl championship caliber quarterback?  That is very encouraging.

[EazyEaglez]

3 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

So you've seen enough to believe Hurts is a potential Super Bowl championship caliber quarterback?  That is very encouraging.

I didn’t say all that bud. I’m only stating that I’ll be concerned about problems as or if they arise. The guy has literally played in his 5th NFL game. No need to over analyze it. Heck people had Travis Fulgham a super star after four games last year and now he’s not on the roster. 

[BayAreaLennie]

23 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I didn’t say all that bud. I’m only stating that I’ll be concerned about problems as or if they arise. The guy has literally played in his 5th NFL game. No need to over analyze it. Heck people had Travis Fulgham a super star after four games last year and now he’s not on the roster. 

Heh, well it is a chat board - if you're going to overanalyze something, this seems like the perfect place to do it.  Fulghum seems like a perfect example of why a handful of successful games might warrant deeper analysis to see what else a player needs to demonstrate to show if they are going to maintain that success.

Anyway, it's all good.  You Eagles fan, me Eagles fan.  This was a great first game for Hurts and I am looking forward to seeing more.

[EazyEaglez]

7 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said:

Heh, well it is a chat board - if you're going to overanalyze something, this seems like the perfect place to do it.  Fulghum seems like a perfect example of why a handful of successful games might warrant deeper analysis to see what else a player needs to demonstrate to show if they are going to maintain that success.

Anyway, it's all good.  You Eagles fan, me Eagles fan.  This was a great first game for Hurts and I am looking forward to seeing more.

I don’t want to over analyze anything right now with this team. A lot of these players have burned us in the past, but I’m not going to dwell on that. So far so good. Sirianni devised a gameplan to defeat his opponent and it worked. I’m just happy about that. Hopefully he keeps it going and the players keep executing.