Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[Guest]

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

Yeah okay bud. I get it. Russell Will and Steve Young basically blow your BS concept to shreds so you don’t wish to count them. No one even knows who this supposed running quarterback is. 😂

Go look at Steve Youngs numbers.  They prove he is a passing QB.  Look at all the passing categories in bold he led the league in during his career.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm
 

 

[EazyEaglez]

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Why has Matt Ryan started over 200 games, but McNair only started 153 ??  Why did Marino and Rivers start almost 100 more games than McNair ??  Why did McNabb only start 16 games 4 out of 10 times in Philly, not counting his rookie year ? 

Because players get hurt. Why did Troy Aikman play 16 games only twice in his career? Chad Pennington played in the league for 11 years and only went 16 twice. Heck even the great Tom Brady has lost time to injury. If stand up statue quarterbacks are so great then why did Aikman only last 11 years? 

[EazyEaglez]

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Go look at Steve Youngs numbers.  They prove he is a passing QB.  Look at all the passing categories in bold he led the league in during his career.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm
 

 

No his numbers prove he runs and passes. One of his biggest highlights of his career was a run. Show me the quarterback who only has rush stats. Show me this magical player. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

No his numbers prove he runs and passes. One of his biggest highlights of his career was a run. Show me the quarterback who only has rush stats. Show me this magical player. 

Steve Young and Russell Wilson’s offenses are built around their passing ability, not their running.  Vick, Jackson, early McNairs offenses were built around their running ability.  

[EazyEaglez]

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Steve Young and Russell Wilson’s offenses are built around their passing ability, not their running.  Vick, Jackson, early McNairs offenses were built around their running ability.  

Russell Wilson has rushed over 100 times a season multiple times. His legs are a part of his game. Your cutoff is dubious at best. Still waiting to see this magical rush first quarterback who has rushed for more than he threw for. Oh that right he doesn’t exist. Just some arbitrary BS put up by people who want to keep a tired old argument around that is based in racism. 

[Outlaw]

19 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Russell Wilson has rushed over 100 times a season multiple times. His legs are a part of his game. Your cutoff is dubious at best. Still waiting to see this magical rush first quarterback who has rushed for more than he threw for. Oh that right he doesn’t exist. Just some arbitrary BS put up by people who want to keep a tired old argument around that is based in racism. 

While I’m on your side of the argument…knock it off with the racism nonsense. 

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

Russell Wilson has rushed over 100 times a season multiple times. His legs are a part of his game. Your cutoff is dubious at best. Still waiting to see this magical rush first quarterback who has rushed for more than he threw for. Oh that right he doesn’t exist. Just some arbitrary BS put up by people who want to keep a tired old argument around that is based in racism. 

Yeah, I am so racist when it comes to QB’s, I named my first family dog Donovan.

9 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

While I’m on your side of the argument…knock it off with the racism nonsense. 

Do you think Wilson and Young are the same QB as Vick and Lamar Jackson ??  I respect your opinion is why I ask.

[EazyEaglez]

15 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

While I’m on your side of the argument…knock it off with the racism nonsense. 

That’s the origins of the argument. I’m not calling anyone racist, but that’s the truth about it.

[EazyEaglez]

12 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Yeah, I am so racist when it comes to QB’s, I named my first family dog Donovan.

Do you think Wilson and Young are the same QB as Vick and Lamar Jackson ??  I respect your opinion is why I ask.

Don’t misunderstand what I’m telling you. I’m not calling you nor do I think you are racist. The concept of quarterbacks that use their legs as a weapon as a liability rather than an asset is steeped in the prior racism of the NFL.  

[eagle45]

6 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

I don't know how people can look around the league and be against athletic QBs that will use their legs when needed to either extend a passing play or lick up some yards. 

 

Brady is the last of the Mohican right now. Once he retired in 5 years it will be nothing but the athletic QBs at the top of the league. 

Yea people have been saying this for 30 years and yet pocket QB's who maximize the passing game get named starters while Cam Newton's get cut.

 

[mihailo]

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Don’t misunderstand what I’m telling you. I’m not calling you nor do I think you are racist. The concept of quarterbacks that use their legs as a weapon as a liability rather than an asset is steeped in the prior racism of the NFL.  

Sounds like BS with the racism. Totally unnecessary bringing that crap into this discussion. 

It really isn’t that complicated, I believe most like myself would love a great passer that can run. 

In fact I would prefer a great pasing QB that can run i.e. Russel Wilson, over a great passer that is a statue.

However, I would take a great passing statue over a mediocre passer that can run.

Obviously that is being simplistic, because there are many other factors (race not being one of them) but you should get the idea. 
 

p.s. I am optimistic about Hurts.

[Ace Nova]

3 hours ago, downundermike said:

What an absolute crock of ish.  Fact is, running QB’s do not last as long. 
 

Brady and Favre have played in 149 more games than McNair.  Look at the list, and look who is not on it.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-games-played-by-a-quarterback

So your new complaint (since Hurts destroyed your last theory that teams "figured him out and that’s why his 2nd half stats are bad” is that Hurts won’t last as long because he’s a "mobile QB”.  Got it. 

[eagle45]

QB's using their legs as a weapon IS a liability.  For all the defensive professionals, coaches, head coaches who talk about how discouraging it is and disheartening it is to have a QB run for a 1st on 3rd down....they are all F O S.  Who do you think a defensive player/coach would most want to hit?  The franchise QB who the entire offense is built around...or a 260lb TE...or a WR who can juke them out of their shorts?  They drool for that opportunity.

No QB can run the ball faster than they can throw it...and no OC/coach/fan (unless the offense is horrifically constructed) should want the ball in their QB's hands beyond the LOS instead of their best weapon.

Athleticism is great.  Taking what you can get, when you can get it, is fine too.  But the cutoff is in the 300-350 yard range.  Any time a QB is running for more yards than that per season, both the QB and your offense are doing something wrong.

The best argument against QB's running is the development of the elite running QB's.  As they get better and their offenses get better, they run less and less.  Jalen Hurts himself...his best game so far (last week) featured his fewest rushing attempts in a game so far.  He literally looked good because he was running less and became a passer.

[Ace Nova]

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

Go look at Steve Youngs numbers.  They prove he is a passing QB.  Look at all the passing categories in bold he led the league in during his career.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm
 

 

So by that theory Hurts is also a passing QB since he averages 265 passing yards per start vs Steve Young’s average of 231 passing yards per start.  Next. 

[RememberTheKoy]

26 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Yea people have been saying this for 30 years and yet pocket QB's who maximize the passing game get named starters while Cam Newton's get cut.

 

 

Cam Newton is washed.  Anytime a QB has fallen off their cliff teams are going to get rid of them.  

[EazyEaglez]

20 minutes ago, mihailo said:

Sounds like BS with the racism. Totally unnecessary bringing that crap into this discussion. 

It really isn’t that complicated, I believe most like myself would love a great passer that can run. 

In fact I would prefer a great pasing QB that can run i.e. Russel Wilson, over a great passer that is a statue.

However, I would take a great passing statue over a mediocre passer that can run.

Obviously that is being simplistic, because there are many other factors (race not being one of them) but you should get the idea. 
 

p.s. I am optimistic about Hurts.

I prefer a winning quarterback regardless if he can run with the ball effectively or not, but if you don’t think race is a factor in this entire issue then you haven’t been really paying attention to it over the years. You can choose to ignore it or investigate it. The choice is yours, but I’m not going to ignore the truth, because it makes you uncomfortable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_issues_faced_by_black_quarterbacks

[EazyEaglez]

21 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

QB's using their legs as a weapon IS a liability.  For all the defensive professionals, coaches, head coaches who talk about how discouraging it is and disheartening it is to have a QB run for a 1st on 3rd down....they are all F O S.  Who do you think a defensive player/coach would most want to hit?  The franchise QB who the entire offense is built around...or a 260lb TE...or a WR who can juke them out of their shorts?  They drool for that opportunity.

No QB can run the ball faster than they can throw it...and no OC/coach/fan (unless the offense is horrifically constructed) should want the ball in their QB's hands beyond the LOS instead of their best weapon.

Athleticism is great.  Taking what you can get, when you can get it, is fine too.  But the cutoff is in the 300-350 yard range.  Any time a QB is running for more yards than that per season, both the QB and your offense are doing something wrong.

The best argument against QB's running is the development of the elite running QB's.  As they get better and their offenses get better, they run less and less.  Jalen Hurts himself...his best game so far (last week) featured his fewest rushing attempts in a game so far.  He literally looked good because he was running less and became a passer.

Russell Wilson averages 500 rush yards a season, has never been hurt, and his team averages 11 wins a season. He has 2 Super Bowl appearances, and a victory in one of them. Ironically he lost the other because he decided to throw the ball, but if that’s a "liability” then give me ten  helpings of that kind of liability than what we had to deal with since 2018. 

[eagle45]

7 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I prefer a winning quarterback regardless if he can run with the ball effectively or not, but if you don’t think race is a factor in this entire issue then you haven’t been really paying attention to it over the years. You can choose to ignore it or investigate it. The choice is yours, but I’m not going to ignore the truth, because it makes you uncomfortable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_issues_faced_by_black_quarterbacks

What a hatchet job of a wikipedia page.

Just now, EazyEaglez said:

Russell Wilson averages 500 rush yards a season, has never been hurt, and his team averages 11 wins a season. He has 2 Super Bowl appearances, and a victory in one of them. Ironically he lost the other because he decided to throw the ball, but if that’s a "liability” then give me ten  helpings of that kind of liability than what we had to deal with since 2018. 

Yeah and he absolutely runs too much.

[EazyEaglez]

24 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

What a hatchet job of a wikipedia page.

Yeah and he absolutely runs too much.

Yeah and running too much is why Nick Foles can’t hold a starting job in the league. BTW Wentz hit you less than 300 yards per season crap. How did that work out for him? 

[mihailo]

15 minutes ago, EazyEaglez said:

I prefer a winning quarterback regardless if he can run with the ball effectively or not, but if you don’t think race is a factor in this entire issue then you haven’t been really paying attention to it over the years. You can choose to ignore it or investigate it. The choice is yours, but I’m not going to ignore the truth, because it makes you uncomfortable.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_issues_faced_by_black_quarterbacks

I don’t think anyone is arguing racism doesn’t exist, but you are applying it to a debate with a specific group of people and individual as if it applies to them, with the intention to strengthen your argument. In this case it is irrelevant and does not hold any water.

If the debate was: why are mobile QBs not respected and given more opportunities in this league, then making such a case is relevant. But that isn’t what is being discussed…

[EazyEaglez]

18 minutes ago, mihailo said:

I don’t think anyone is arguing racism doesn’t exist, but you are applying it to a debate with a specific group of people and individual as if it applies to them, with the intention to strengthen your argument. In this case it is irrelevant and does not hold any water.

If the debate was: why are mobile QBs not respected and given more opportunities in this league, then making such a case is relevant. But that isn’t what is being discussed…

What is being discussed is basically a bias towards a player based on less than factual information while lumping said player into a group of other players that are loosely connected to one another. Meanwhile people are making bold and blanket statements based on fractional information. Professional football has been around since the 1800, and in all that time do you really think every statue style quarterback was good? Should any assessment be based on only the bad statue quarterbacks while removing the winning ones as the base for an argument against them? Meanwhile the athletic style quarterbacks didn’t really show up until the 60, but really didn’t gain any real presence until 90s. So now a style of play that is relatively already has an exact standard? I’ll bet if you combine all of the win/loss record of dual threat quarterbacks they will have a winning record. The anti-dual threat quarterback talk is based in absolutely nothing, but speculations, bias, and fear. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ace Nova said:

So your new complaint (since Hurts destroyed your last theory that teams "figured him out and that’s why his 2nd half stats are bad” is that Hurts won’t last as long because he’s a "mobile QB”.  Got it. 

Better go read the conversation again.  I am not the one that brought it up.

[Outlaw]

3 hours ago, downundermike said:

Yeah, I am so racist when it comes to QB’s, I named my first family dog Donovan.

Do you think Wilson and Young are the same QB as Vick and Lamar Jackson ??  I respect your opinion is why I ask.

No I don’t think they’re the same. I’m saying I’m on the side of the argument that I see Hurts trending more towards the Wilson/Young model than the Vick/Lamar model. I do believe they can all be considered running QBs to different degrees. Young is not Lamar is not Peyton.  I’d much rather see 300 yds passing than 100 TDs rushing out of my QB. 250 and 50 ain’t bad either. But the only stat I truly care about is W’s and L’s. (But I sure as F wish Jalen had Vick’s arm strength, that dude could throw rockets with a simple flick of the wrist)

[Traveler Vic]

4 hours ago, Outlaw said:

No I don’t think they’re the same. I’m saying I’m on the side of the argument that I see Hurts trending more towards the Wilson/Young model than the Vick/Lamar model. I do believe they can all be considered running QBs to different degrees. Young is not Lamar is not Peyton.  I’d much rather see 300 yds passing than 100 TDs rushing out of my QB. 250 and 50 ain’t bad either. But the only stat I truly care about is W’s and L’s. (But I sure as F wish Jalen had Vick’s arm strength, that dude could throw rockets with a simple flick of the wrist)

 Hurts may not be a once in a decade Athlete, but he is a good game manager, a leader, and has IT factor.  From the moment he was drafted, I stated these same qualities that I saw in him. It is only a process of maturation. With the entire organization behind Hurts, Wins will come.

[Random Reglar]

16 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

Rushing attempts[edit]

 

Russell Wilson has the third most rushing attempts for a quarterback.

Rank	Player	Seasons by team	Rush attempts
1	Cam Newton*	Carolina Panthers (2011–2019) New England Patriots (2020)	1,071
2	Michael Vick	Atlanta Falcons (2001–2006) Philadelphia Eagles (2009–2013) New York Jets (2014) Pittsburgh Steelers (2015)	873
3	Russell Wilson*	Seattle Seahawks (2012–present)	803
4	Randall Cunningham	Philadelphia Eagles (1985–1995) Minnesota Vikings (1997–1999) Dallas Cowboys (2000) Baltimore Ravens (2001)	775
5	John Elway^	Denver Broncos (1983–1998)	774
6	Steve Young^	Los Angeles Express (USFL) (1984–1985) Tampa Bay Buccaneers (1985–1986) San Francisco 49ers (1987–1999)	722[a]
7	Fran Tarkenton^	Minnesota Vikings (1961–1966) New York Giants (1967–1971) Minnesota Vikings (1972–1978)	675
8	Steve McNair	Houston Oilers (1995–1996) Tennessee Oilers (1997–1998) Tennessee Titans (1999–2005) Baltimore Ravens (2006–2007)	669
9	Aaron Rodgers*	Green Bay Packers (2005–present)	652
10	Tom Brady*	New England Patriots (2000–2019) Tampa Bay Buccaneers (2020–present)	636

Okay short of Tom Brady if many of the all time leading quarterback rushers on the all time leading rush list aren’t actually runners then who are these alleged running quarterbacks that people are talking about and what qualifies the difference? 

I call a QB a running QB if he runs for 500+ yards in a season.

That particular stat that you're using there isn't all that great, because, let's say, Brady is on there.   636 rushes in 20 years.  that's around 30 rushes a year, not all that much. 

You're right, overall.   I'd want to see Top QB rushing yards in a season.  

And running QBs have nice long careers,  like so many statue QBs,  they aren't out of the NFL because they're hurt, it's because teams don't want them.