28 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Like I said before arm strength and accuracy is a hell of an uphill battle cause not only do you struggle getting the ball there because of arm strength he also can't get it there accurately... Now you can add timing and decision making on top of that . All those things are working against each other and none of that is getting fixed mid season. 

Agree.  It isn't getting fixed mid-season, if it hasn't been fixed over past 18 months of his career (or years before with premium programs).  This is starting to look like another "Howie is smarter than everyone else" failure.

2 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

Agree.  It isn't getting fixed mid-season, if it hasn't been fixed over past 18 months of his career (or years before with premium programs).  This is starting to look like another "Howie is smarter than everyone else" failure.

That was most likely Howie desperately trying to find the next Russel Wilson

25 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

That was most likely Howie desperately trying to find the next Russel Wilson

To be fair, Howie drafted Hurts to be the backup, not the starter.  He saw how the injuries were mounting with Wentz and wanted a young, cheap backup that he could have possibly flipped for a first sometime down the line if Hurts would show well in a few spot starts or appearances.

Obviously, it didn't work out that way.  With all the smoke about the Eagles being interested in Deshaun Watson, I have to believe that Howie and the Eagles don't truly see Hurts as "the guy".  Howie has a lot of issues when it comes to the draft...and he should NOT have taken Hurts because that was the beginning of the end of Wentz' tenure and Howie completely misread the entire situation.

13 minutes ago, EaglesAddict said:

Obviously, it didn't work out that way.  With all the smoke about the Eagles being interested in Deshaun Watson, I have to believe that Howie and the Eagles don't truly see Hurts as "the guy".  Howie has a lot of issues when it comes to the draft...and he should NOT have taken Hurts because that was the beginning of the end of Wentz' tenure and Howie completely misread the entire situation.

I mean I agree with you for the most part. Howie probably shouldn't have taken Hurts given how it has panned out so far. That said he also shouldn't be called out for the fact that Wentz handled things like a ****. Wentz is a failed QB end of. He may do OK for the Colts but he's not a top QB. He's mentally fragile.

23 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean I agree with you for the most part. Howie probably shouldn't have taken Hurts given how it has panned out so far. That said he also shouldn't be called out for the fact that Wentz handled things like a ****. Wentz is a failed QB end of. He may do OK for the Colts but he's not a top QB. He's mentally fragile.

LOL!  You never miss a chance to slam Wentz!  I get the stewing anger though. You can now see that we got the short end of the QB stick.

1 hour ago, EaglesAddict said:

To be fair, Howie drafted Hurts to be the backup, not the starter.  He saw how the injuries were mounting with Wentz and wanted a young, cheap backup that he could have possibly flipped for a first sometime down the line if Hurts would show well in a few spot starts or appearances.

Obviously, it didn't work out that way.  With all the smoke about the Eagles being interested in Deshaun Watson, I have to believe that Howie and the Eagles don't truly see Hurts as "the guy".  Howie has a lot of issues when it comes to the draft...and he should NOT have taken Hurts because that was the beginning of the end of Wentz' tenure and Howie completely misread the entire situation.

I know I just wanted to go with the theme that Howie is obsessed with Wilson and he wanted to get his clone at all cost. It sounds better in my head then the real reasons lol

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Like I said before arm strength and accuracy is a hell of an uphill battle cause not only do you struggle getting the ball there because of arm strength he also can't get it there accurately... Now you can add timing and decision making on top of that . All those things are working against each other and none of that is getting fixed mid season. 

With regard to the first point (arm strength and accuracy), I don't see these as huge, unfixable issues. They become an issue when his mechanics break down. In the second half of the Bucs game, he was much better in this regard, and we generated decent drives on three of his four drives. If you look at the two deep PI calls on Reagor, the first one was way short due to bad footwork. The second was on the money because he set his feet and stepped into the throw. It was like watching two different qbs. He has to understand that power comes from the feet up. On almost every bad throw he makes, his feet aren't set. 

As far as timing and decision making, I think that will come with experience and working with his receivers. Once he becomes more familiar with the design of the plays and with what his receivers can do, I think he will get better in these areas. But we will have to put up with the growing pains.

Ultimately, whether he can fix his mechanics is the biggest single issue. He was better in the second half of the Bucs game. But the first half was a mess. He was largely okay in the Panthers game with a few exceptions. On the free play that he threw out of bounds, it was simply a footwork problem. The same with the bad INT in that game. But most of the other times his footwork was fine, and the passes were accurate.

He is never going to have the arm talent of a Mahomes or Allen. But lack of athletic talent is not what's going to get him benched. It's also dumb to give up on him now. See where he is at the end of the season. Is he setting his feet as he throws? Is he stepping up into the pocket? Is he understanding what receivers are doing on their routes? And, most importantly, is he consistent? Those are questions that he needs to answer. But anyone who wants the Hurts experiment to be ended right now is just being foolish.

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

LOL!  You never miss a chance to slam Wentz!  I get the stewing anger though. You can now see that we got the short end of the QB stick.

It isn't necessarily about slamming Wentz. That's the reality of what went down. He couldn't seem to handle the pressure of a back up. He couldn't deal with playing like ish and then rightly being benched. That's what happened. 

Just now, jsb235 said:

With regard to the first point (arm strength and accuracy), I don't see these as huge, unfixable issues. They become an issue when his mechanics break down. In the second half of the Bucs game, he was much better in this regard, and we generated decent drives on three of his four drives. If you look at the two deep PI calls on Reagor, the first one was way short due to bad footwork. The second was on the money because he set his feet and stepped into the throw. It was like watching two different qbs. He has to understand that power comes from the feet up. On almost every bad throw he makes, his feet aren't set. 

As far as timing and decision making, I think that will come with experience and working with his receivers. Once he becomes more familiar with the design of the plays and with what his receivers can do, I think he will get better in these areas. But we will have to put up with the growing pains.

Ultimately, whether he can fix his mechanics is the biggest single issue. He was better in the second half of the Bucs game. But the first half was a mess. He was largely okay in the Panthers game with a few exceptions. On the free play that he threw out of bounds, it was simply a footwork problem. The same with the bad INT in that game. But most of the other times his footwork was fine, and the passes were accurate.

He is never going to have the arm talent of a Mahomes or Allen. But lack of athletic talent is not what's going to get him benched. It's also dumb to give up on him now. See where he is at the end of the season. Is he setting his feet as he throws? Is he stepping up into the pocket? Is he understanding what receivers are doing on their routes? And, most importantly, is he consistent? Those are questions that he needs to answer. But anyone who wants the Hurts experiment to be ended right now is just being foolish.

Oh I agree and maybe he can fix them but, I just don't think they are getting fixed this season. I just hope he doesn't get down on himself and it snowballs and it all falls apart. Especially with a coach putting the ball in his hands 85% of the time that's just to much. 

I'm on the just let him finish the season wagon. 

12 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

It isn't necessarily about slamming Wentz. That's the reality of what went down. He couldn't seem to handle the pressure of a back up. He couldn't deal with playing like ish and then rightly being benched. That's what happened. 

 

This is a fantastic breakdown of Jalen Hurts.

It Hurts So Bad - YouTube

It goes through some of his bad moments, as well as problems with the play designs.

He also specifically said he didn't go through the second half tape, but said he heard it got better, which I would agree with.

Just to put the struggles into some perspective, through 10 starts his performances would be on pace for 4000+ yards passing and 1000+ yards rushing with 22 passing TD's 13picks and 12 rushing TD's in a 16 game season. That's comfortably better than Josh Allen's first 16 game season (in his first 11 games Allen went 169 from 320 for 2074 yds 10 TD's and 12picks) and pretty much a match passing for Kyler Murray's (and better rushing).

BuT GaRBaGe TImE, the only games the Eagles have been truly out of when they scored their last TD is the Cowboys and Chiefs, and he lost multiple non garbage time TD's in those games to penalties, Tampa and San Fran we went within a score with time on the clock and couldn't get the ball back.

Has he been great? Nope, nowhere near, on Sunday he was flat awful, can he clean stuff up?  Oh yeah a hell of a lot, he needs to be more consistent in his mechanics and his accuracy is spotty, but in terms of first games in the NFL he's nowhere near as 'bad' as the eyes on here see sometimes.

If a guy who puts up 4000 yards passing and 1000 yards rushing over his first 16 games isn't good enough to even be considered that he might be the guy, then the Eagles are going to be waiting a hell of a time to draft a franchise guy, probably decades.

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

This is a fantastic breakdown of Jalen Hurts.

It Hurts So Bad - YouTube

It goes through some of his bad moments, as well as problems with the play designs.

He also specifically said he didn't go through the second half tape, but said he heard it got better, which I would agree with.

Good stuff.  He's saying/showing the things were are saying between the issues with the game plan/design of the offense and with Hurts himself.  Definitely looks like both things are an issue.  Not a good combo to say the least.

Bigger question is if Sirianni feels handcuffed into designing an offense that he thinks will better suit Hurts because of how he perceives Hurts' limitations as a QB?  What a CF.

28 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Tampa we went within a score with time on the clock and couldn't get the ball back.

We were never in that game, regardless of what the score said.  When it was 28-7, Tampa was already on the plane back home.  When they had to, they killed the clock.  They could have hung 40-50 on us if they wanted to.

3 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I mean I agree with you for the most part. Howie probably shouldn't have taken Hurts given how it has panned out so far. That said he also shouldn't be called out for the fact that Wentz handled things like a ****. Wentz is a failed QB end of. He may do OK for the Colts but he's not a top QB. He's mentally fragile.

I agree with that too.  The whole situation was a cluster F. But the point here was just that Hurts should never have been the pick.  I'm fairly certain that the majority of Eagles fans reaction...and probably a decent amount of people within the Eagles' organization as whole...was that of a "WTF?!?!?!?" when Hurts was selected. 

We will never know if things would have turned out differently with Wentz had Hurts not been drafted.  As far as QB talent goes, Wentz is superior to Hurts (although Wentz is the more fragile psychologically).  

2 hours ago, jsb235 said:

With regard to the first point (arm strength and accuracy), I don't see these as huge, unfixable issues. They become an issue when his mechanics break down. In the second half of the Bucs game, he was much better in this regard, and we generated decent drives on three of his four drives. If you look at the two deep PI calls on Reagor, the first one was way short due to bad footwork. The second was on the money because he set his feet and stepped into the throw. It was like watching two different qbs. He has to understand that power comes from the feet up. On almost every bad throw he makes, his feet aren't set. 

As far as timing and decision making, I think that will come with experience and working with his receivers. Once he becomes more familiar with the design of the plays and with what his receivers can do, I think he will get better in these areas. But we will have to put up with the growing pains.

Ultimately, whether he can fix his mechanics is the biggest single issue. He was better in the second half of the Bucs game. But the first half was a mess. He was largely okay in the Panthers game with a few exceptions. On the free play that he threw out of bounds, it was simply a footwork problem. The same with the bad INT in that game. But most of the other times his footwork was fine, and the passes were accurate.

He is never going to have the arm talent of a Mahomes or Allen. But lack of athletic talent is not what's going to get him benched. It's also dumb to give up on him now. See where he is at the end of the season. Is he setting his feet as he throws? Is he stepping up into the pocket? Is he understanding what receivers are doing on their routes? And, most importantly, is he consistent? Those are questions that he needs to answer. But anyone who wants the Hurts experiment to be ended right now is just being foolish.

 

52 minutes ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Just to put the struggles into some perspective, through 10 starts his performances would be on pace for 4000+ yards passing and 1000+ yards rushing with 22 passing TD's 13picks and 12 rushing TD's in a 16 game season. That's comfortably better than Josh Allen's first 16 game season (in his first 11 games Allen went 169 from 320 for 2074 yds 10 TD's and 12picks) and pretty much a match passing for Kyler Murray's (and better rushing).

BuT GaRBaGe TImE, the only games the Eagles have been truly out of when they scored their last TD is the Cowboys and Chiefs, and he lost multiple non garbage time TD's in those games to penalties, Tampa and San Fran we went within a score with time on the clock and couldn't get the ball back.

Has he been great? Nope, nowhere near, on Sunday he was flat awful, can he clean stuff up?  Oh yeah a hell of a lot, he needs to be more consistent in his mechanics and his accuracy is spotty, but in terms of first games in the NFL he's nowhere near as 'bad' as the eyes on here see sometimes.

If a guy who puts up 4000 yards passing and 1000 yards rushing over his first 16 games isn't good enough to even be considered that he might be the guy, then the Eagles are going to be waiting a hell of a time to draft a franchise guy, probably decades.

It's becoming more likely that Hurts isn't the guy. He was very bad against the Bucs, nobody is trying to say otherwise. But ultimately he might have won the game if the D managed to get a stop.

But I really don't get those who want to write him off every time he has a bad game. We should be giving him at least until the bye and probably the rest of the season. Minshew is not suddenly going to turn us into a contender and if Hurts hasn't shown enough, Minshew will probably get his chance at the start of next year given the lack of top QBs in the draft.

Hurts is not being helped at all with the play calling and the injuries to the line. I hope Sirianni sees sense and gives him a chance to earn QB1.

22 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

It's becoming more likely that Hurts isn't the guy. He was very bad against the Bucs, nobody is trying to say otherwise. But ultimately he might have won the game if the D managed to get a stop.

But I really don't get those who want to write him off every time he has a bad game. We should be giving him at least until the bye and probably the rest of the season. Minshew is not suddenly going to turn us into a contender and if Hurts hasn't shown enough, Minshew will probably get his chance at the start of next year given the lack of top QBs in the draft.

Hurts is not being helped at all with the play calling and the injuries to the line. I hope Sirianni sees sense and gives him a chance to earn QB1.

He’s currently QB1 right now

25 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

It's becoming more likely that Hurts isn't the guy. He was very bad against the Bucs, nobody is trying to say otherwise. But ultimately he might have won the game if the D managed to get a stop.

But I really don't get those who want to write him off every time he has a bad game. We should be giving him at least until the bye and probably the rest of the season. Minshew is not suddenly going to turn us into a contender and if Hurts hasn't shown enough, Minshew will probably get his chance at the start of next year given the lack of top QBs in the draft.

Hurts is not being helped at all with the play calling and the injuries to the line. I hope Sirianni sees sense and gives him a chance to earn QB1.

It's not about Minshew turning us into a contender.  It's about having a QB who can make the correct quick reads, throw to the whole field, and be able to see more than just his primary read.  Why?  So Siri's O can be better evaluated.  With how poor Hurts is playing it's difficult to get a true sense of the O scheme.  Minshew needs to play at some point so there's a comparison of how the O looks.  Should the O look and operate better with Minshew then we know Hurts is the main issue.  And how much better does the O look?  Just a little?  A fair amount better?  Loads better?  How is Minshew playing within the O?  Is he getting the ball out quick, making good reads, and throwing to the whole field?  Or does the O still look like a scrub college team?  In that case with 2 QBs failing to make it work then it's probably more the scheme.

That video posted above, It Hurts So Bad, is a good watch.  If anyone hasn't watched it I suggest doing so.  It shows that it's part Hurts and part O scheme.  Some of the play designs are set up to fail.  However, there are plays to be made that Hurts is leaving on the field as well.  And it shows how bad his throwing mechanics are right now.  So bad that they aren't going to be fixed any time this season.  This is something that will take an entire off-season of work to correct.  Simply put, Hurts doesn't set/plant his feet and let rip and drive the ball.  He does this hop step and often is throwing on one foot. 

Minshew needs to play at least a few games to get an idea of what the O scheme is and if it's good enough or needs lots of improvement.

 

1 hour ago, downundermike said:

We were never in that game, regardless of what the score said.  When it was 28-7, Tampa was already on the plane back home.  When they had to, they killed the clock.  They could have hung 40-50 on us if they wanted to.

It's becoming increasingly apparent that people don't realize that garbage time doesn't mean the last five minutes of a game down 30.

1 hour ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

Has he been great? Nope, nowhere near, on Sunday he was flat awful, can he clean stuff up?

@Swoop would it be impolite to point out he didn't play on Sunday ????????????

Just now, downundermike said:

@Swoop would it be impolite to point out he didn't play on Sunday ????????????

Careful, can't let everyone know about the "Wang touching".

46 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

It's becoming more likely that Hurts isn't the guy. He was very bad against the Bucs, nobody is trying to say otherwise. But ultimately he might have won the game if the D managed to get a stop.

But I really don't get those who want to write him off every time he has a bad game. We should be giving him at least until the bye and probably the rest of the season. Minshew is not suddenly going to turn us into a contender and if Hurts hasn't shown enough, Minshew will probably get his chance at the start of next year given the lack of top QBs in the draft.

Hurts is not being helped at all with the play calling and the injuries to the line. I hope Sirianni sees sense and gives him a chance to earn QB1.

He isn’t trash like some people think and his arm is adequate, Matt Cassell and even Matt Ryan probably have less.  You can look at his scouting report going from Alabama to Oklahoma, and Oklahoma to the pros.  Lots of drafts had him as a 3rd round pick but he did help himself at the combine throwing the go routes and again showed his arm was fine. Now Jake Fromm from GA, eh, not much better than me, lol.   Seriously though, he doesn’t take snaps under center, maybe he never did so he’s never learned to step up in the pocket because he rolled right and ran the ball downfield, or threw on the run to the right because he was in shotgun.  Until he learns to find open receivers while the pocket is collapsing, he’s gonna keep missing open guys.  

Lamar Jackson figured it out, until Hurts does, he’s gonna struggle because defenses already know how to defend him, case in point his last two games are the worst of his NFL career.

 

12 minutes ago, downundermike said:

@Swoop would it be impolite to point out he didn't play on Sunday ????????????

11 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Careful, can't let everyone know about the "Wang touching".

 

2 hours ago, EaglesAddict said:

I agree with that too.  The whole situation was a cluster F. But the point here was just that Hurts should never have been the pick.  I'm fairly certain that the majority of Eagles fans reaction...and probably a decent amount of people within the Eagles' organization as whole...was that of a "WTF?!?!?!?" when Hurts was selected. 

We will never know if things would have turned out differently with Wentz had Hurts not been drafted.  As far as QB talent goes, Wentz is superior to Hurts (although Wentz is the more fragile psychologically).  

And yeah you're right we don't know how things would have played out. Maybe it would have worked out with Wentz. But ultimately I think what the Hurts pick did was it showed how mentally weak Wentz was. And when the going got tough he got going and that was always going to come out at some point. In some ways I'm glad it came out when it did rather than a year or two later. 

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

And yeah you're right we don't know how things would have played out. Maybe it would have worked out with Wentz. But ultimately I think what the Hurts pick did was it showed how mentally weak Wentz was. And when the going got tough he got going and that was always going to come out at some point. In some ways I'm glad it came out when it did rather than a year or two later. 

Or he was smart enough to see that this front office is a clown show that micromanaged everything a SB winning HC did and decided to get the F out?