48 minutes ago, ManchesterEagle said:

Haha - honestly just admit that you are wrong. 

Offenses are ranked mainly by two criteria. Points and Yards. Both are calculated based on per game, because as you rightly say it would be imbalanced at this stage of the year because of bye weeks if you just take total yards or total points.

@Random Reglar was arguing that the Eagles had improved a lot since last year as they were now 11th in points. You countered this by saying that there were 13 teams behind the Eagles who had played fewer games. But as you say the Eagles are 11th based on points per game which takes that out of the equation. So it is accurate and your point is irrelevant.

Now if you want to be pedantic about how the poster labelled the points category, then that's fine, but in respect of his argument that the Eagles had got better in respect of points scored, he was absolutely right.

I'm not wrong, though. His measuring stick was that the Eagles were 11th in points scored. Those were his exact words. You can try to decipher that he meant something differently, but that isn't at all what he said.

I pointed out why it was flawed and you came rushing to his defense and shifted the entire argument in the first place. All numbers are skewed as of this moment because of the byes and where we are in the season...and that was exactly my point. This includes points per game.

Suppose next week the Eagles score 10 points and five teams immediately behind them put up 27-30 (Chiefs, Saints, etc). Now suddenly, the Eagles drop to 16th in points per game.

Get it yet?

The real question is....can we win a Super Bowl with Hurts at QB?   

Argue all of the other points until you are blue in the face, but only one thing matters.  If he can, then the Eagles should stick with him.  If he's an 8, 9, or 10 win, one playoff game and done QB, then the Eagles should move on. It doesn't matter if he can pass (he can't well) or he runs for 2000 yards, all that matters will be wins.  So far, he has shown that he can rack up yards, but not wins.  I'd like to believe that will get better, but I don't think it will change dramatically from what I have seen.

 

1 hour ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

It's an RPO screen he doesn't have time to go back to the right side. The defender is right in his face. He should of actually made the hand off. 

He is staring down Reagor the whole way. The entire defense reacts . There are 6 guys in position to tackle Reagor for a loss. Scott was the other pass option on that play. Bosa's responsibility was Hurts and he was not rushing. Hurts had plenty of time and space to make the correct read, which he did not. 

14 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

The real question is....can we win a Super Bowl with Hurts at QB?   

Argue all of the other points until you are blue in the face, but only one thing matters.  If he can, then the Eagles should stick with him.  If he's an 8, 9, or 10 win, one playoff game and done QB, then the Eagles should move on. It doesn't matter if he can pass (he can't well) or he runs for 2000 yards, all that matters will be wins.  So far, he has shown that he can rack up yards, but not wins.  I'd like to believe that will get batter, but I don't think it will change dramatically from what I have seen.

 

The answer is no, we cannot. 

He may grow marginally better as a passer, but he will never be a guy that can dissect a defense and win you a game against the good teams consistently.

24 minutes ago, Swoop said:

I'm not wrong, though. His measuring stick was that the Eagles were 11th in points scored. Those were his exact words. You can try to decipher that he meant something differently, but that isn't at all what he said.

I pointed out why it was flawed and you came rushing to his defense and shifted the entire argument in the first place. All numbers are skewed as of this moment because of the byes and that was exact my point. This includes points per game.

Suppose next week the Eagles score 10 points and five teams immediately behind them put up 27-30 (Chiefs, Saints, etc). Now suddenly, the Eagles drop to 16th in points per game.

Get it yet?

Points scored is ambiguous. It's not clear how it is calculated. He didn't say total points. 

Numbers aren't skewed. Just some teams have a slightly smaller size than others. In all cases there is currently a reasonable sample size of 8 or 9 games to take the average points per game from. 

Now yes, if the Eagles score 10 and the 5 teams immediately behind them put up 30  plus then there may be a change, but that has nothing to do with bye weeks and you know that. 

The simple fact is that the Eagles have been reasonably effective on offense with Hurts as QB. They are currently scoring on average more points per game than the Chiefs with Mahomes, the Packers with Rodgers and the Chargers with Herbert. They are also much more effective as an offense than they were last year. (And I appreciate there is much more to that then just the QB change).

Now you make some really good points about Hurts shortcomings and you may well be right that he isn't the guy going forward. But you are so set with your narrative that Hurts absolutely can't be the guy, that you refuse to take any points onboard about how the Eagles O is actually doing okay with him as QB. 

41 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

The real question is....can we win a Super Bowl with Hurts at QB?   

Argue all of the other points until you are blue in the face, but only one thing matters.  If he can, then the Eagles should stick with him.  If he's an 8, 9, or 10 win, one playoff game and done QB, then the Eagles should move on. It doesn't matter if he can pass (he can't well) or he runs for 2000 yards, all that matters will be wins.  So far, he has shown that he can rack up yards, but not wins.  I'd like to believe that will get better, but I don't think it will change dramatically from what I have seen.

 

Yep - I have no problem with this. I would say that he has also shown he can score points and his win total has definitely been hurt by a bad D.

But yes, if by the end of the season (or next season if he gets more time) it becomes apparent that he is not improving and his limitations will mean that we would not beat the better teams in the playoffs then the Eagles should move on.

1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

The real question is....can we win a Super Bowl with Hurts at QB?   

Argue all of the other points until you are blue in the face, but only one thing matters.  If he can, then the Eagles should stick with him.  If he's an 8, 9, or 10 win, one playoff game and done QB, then the Eagles should move on. It doesn't matter if he can pass (he can't well) or he runs for 2000 yards, all that matters will be wins.  So far, he has shown that he can rack up yards, but not wins.  I'd like to believe that will get better, but I don't think it will change dramatically from what I have seen.

 

The answer is incomplete.

Anyone that answers YES or NO to that question has no clue.

19 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

You love to move the needle. 😂🤣😂

I’m an Eagles fan. Hurts is the starting quarterback of the Philadelphia Eagles. Who do you support?

The Eagles which is why I want them to get a real quarterback.

 

39 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

The answer is incomplete.

Anyone that answers YES or NO to that question has no clue.

In here, you may be right.  The professionals with the team can see it much clearer than us.  They know what good QB play looks like and what potential exists.  Taking the ball out of his hands isn't saying much positive about their beliefs in him.

13 hours ago, Swoop said:

Hurts has totaled 16 TDs, eight of which have come in the 4th quarter, the majority of which are in garbage time. Their scoring is misleading.

Oh and by the way, the Eagles are 11th in points scored. That's true. I'm sure you also knew that 13 of the teams behind the Eagles have played in fewer games, right?

 

Actually,  the Eagles are 10th in points scored,  but the rankings take into consideration  how many games have been played, so they're at 11.

The Ravens are at 12,  but because they only played 8 games,  they're at 7 in the rankings.

So,  the Eagles are either at 10 - raw point total. or 11,  points normed by games played.

Last year,  the Eagles were at #26 in points scored.   This year,  #11 in points scored.

The Eagles offense, this year,  with Jalen Hurts at QB,  is doing much much better than last year.

I understand that what you want is to make all the clear facts hurt your point just go away, but the fact is that the Eagles offense is much better with Jalen Hurts. 

 

3 hours ago, Swoop said:

I'm not wrong, though. His measuring stick was that the Eagles were 11th in points scored. Those were his exact words. You can try to decipher that he meant something differently, but that isn't at all what he said.

I pointed out why it was flawed and you came rushing to his defense and shifted the entire argument in the first place. All numbers are skewed as of this moment because of the byes and where we are in the season...and that was exactly my point. This includes points per game.

Suppose next week the Eagles score 10 points and five teams immediately behind them put up 27-30 (Chiefs, Saints, etc). Now suddenly, the Eagles drop to 16th in points per game.

Get it yet?

Right,  it isn't hard.

The link is there.  It says 11.

Last year it was 26.   Big big improvement.   The Eagles with Wentz only did better than 11 one year,  the Super Bowl year.

Also,  3rd fewest turnovers.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2021.htm

 

At best he can be a good backup. But you need more from a QB to compete for a championship. It's a position you just can't settle for.

7 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

So far, he has shown that he can rack up yards, but not wins.  

The problem with the above is it assumes the QB alone is responsible for wins and losses of the team and he isn't, I mean really, how many games to you expect the Eagles to win with that sorry-srse defense?    

1 hour ago, Random Reglar said:

Right,  it isn't hard.

The link is there.  It says 11.

Last year it was 26.   Big big improvement.   The Eagles with Wentz only did better than 11 one year,  the Super Bowl year.

Also,  3rd fewest turnovers.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2021.htm

 

Right.

But the year is only half over and this could wildly change between now and then (good or bad).

I don't think it's unreasonable to feel that way.

3 hours ago, Perforator said:

The Eagles which is why I want them to get a real quarterback.

 

Well they let a real quarterback go when they let Nick Foles go. They have basically been mediocre or flat out bad since. I want a better roster. 

5 hours ago, Swoop said:

The answer is no, we cannot. 

He may grow marginally better as a passer, but he will never be a guy that can dissect a defense and win you a game against the good teams consistently.

I don't know if we could win a SB with Hurts but I am certain we can't win one with this defense. Would rather spend most of the draft capital in 2022 on defense and then address QB in 2023. I wouldn't mind them taking a shot on a QB in 2022 draft but not at the expense of giving up any picks more than the one needed to draft the player. I can see the offense has potential for improving  but the defense and DC I don't have much faith in. Seems lacking in both talent and coaching. 

7 minutes ago, GreenMachine said:

I don't know if we could win a SB with Hurts but I am certain we can't win one with this defense. Would rather spend most of the draft capital in 2022 on defense and then address QB in 2023. I wouldn't mind them taking a shot on a QB in 2022 draft but not at the expense of giving up any picks more than the one needed to draft the player. I can see the offense has potential for improving  but the defense and DC I don't have much faith in. Seems lacking in both talent and coaching. 

Surprisingly, I agree. Have no interest in reaching for a QB and would rather hit the defense in a major way with these firsts.

Let Hurts, Minshew and a rookie battle it out and see where we're at.

3 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

 

Actually,  the Eagles are 10th in points scored,  but the rankings take into consideration  how many games have been played, so they're at 11.

The Ravens are at 12,  but because they only played 8 games,  they're at 7 in the rankings.

So,  the Eagles are either at 10 - raw point total. or 11,  points normed by games played.

Last year,  the Eagles were at #26 in points scored.   This year,  #11 in points scored.

The Eagles offense, this year,  with Jalen Hurts at QB,  is doing much much better than last year.

I understand that what you want is to make all the clear facts hurt your point just go away, but the fact is that the Eagles offense is much better with Jalen Hurts. 

 

How did Jalen Hurts do with 2020's team? Yes those were his first starts. Point being, maybe 2021's offense is better.

3 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

Let's be honest, Hurts isnt out guy. The coaches know it, the owners/GM knows it....Most* of the city knows it

But the question is, where can we send him and what can we get for him?

Seattle, Geno is cooked, maybe a 4th behind Russ Wilson?" 

Lord knows what the Bronco's are doing. Steelers too next year. 

Texans probably draft someone. Giants? do you trade him in the division?

End of the day, Hurts shouldnt be on this roster next year

Hurts is super cheap,  allowing the rest of the Eagles to be better.

Hurts gets the Eagles offense to 11th (or 10th, depending on whether you want to look at the total points, or points per game).

Because Hurts is super cheap,  and the Eagles already have him,  the Eagles should keep him.  

If they get someone else,  that other person might 1) be worse.  2) be slightly better, but much more expensive, making the switch inefficient.

I get why so many people here are mad at Howie.   People here don't realize that #11th most points (technically, points per game) is the best the Eagles have done since the Super Bowl year, and the Eagles,  by ditching Wentz, have a lot of money to spend on other positions.

Howie is a lot smarter than people give him credit for, and when you have a QB who costs nothing, and is still getting the offense to #11 in points per game,  you keep him. 

Tons of picks,  more money than they usually have,  get that defense from #20 to as good as possible,  the Eagles make the playoffs, and then any given Sunday.   The Eagles are on the right track,  stay the course.  If the Eagles were going to replace Hurts,  they'd be replacing #11 with someone who could be #21 or #31 and could cost a lot more. 

Replacing Wentz with Hurts looks more and more like a genius move by the only GM to win a Super Bowl for the Eagles in 55 years.  Again, stay the course, and spend on defense.

1 hour ago, EagleVA said:

The problem with the above is it assumes the QB is responsible wins and losses of the team and he isn't, I mean really, how many games to you expect the Eagles to win with that sorry-srse defense?    

How many games do you win, if he performs better?  Better deep passer?  Hang in the pocket?  The bottom line is that this team has some issues on defense, but the QB has challenges too.

1 hour ago, EazyEaglez said:

Well they let a real quarterback go when they let Nick Foles go. They have basically been mediocre or flat out bad since. I want a better roster. 

Ahh, so now the truth comes out. No wonder you hate Wentz so much, he replaced your boy.

 

Just now, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said:

How many games do you win, if he performs better?  Better deep passer?  Hang in the pocket?  The bottom line is that this team has some issues on defense, but the QB has challenges too.

No doubt Hurts has accuracy issues but it seems as though every time the Eagles score their opponent answers with a score of their own, in light of that I'm surprised the Eagles have won any games this year. 

12 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

How did Jalen Hurts do with 2020's team? Yes those were his first starts. Point being, maybe 2021's offense is better.

Looking at points,   Jalen Hurts is doing better in 2021 than either Jalen Hurts or Carson Wentz did in 2020.

The offense in 2021 - with Jalen Hurts - points per game - is doing better than any Eagles offense except for the Super Bowl year,  going back to 2015 - 2nd best out of 7 years,  with a new coaching staff and basically a new QB.

Stay the course.   Add talent to the defense.

Eagles Points For - per game

2021 - #11
2020 - #26
2019 - #12
2018 - #18
2017 - #3
2016 - #16
2015 - #13

 

31 minutes ago, Perforator said:

Ahh, so now the truth comes out. No wonder you hate Wentz so much, he replaced your boy.

 

I don’t hate Wentz. Just the dopes who propped him up like he was a god after no playoff wins and 9 win seasons. 

53 minutes ago, Random Reglar said:

Looking at points,   Jalen Hurts is doing better in 2021 than either Jalen Hurts or Carson Wentz did in 2020.

The offense in 2021 - with Jalen Hurts - points per game - is doing better than any Eagles offense except for the Super Bowl year,  going back to 2015 - 2nd best out of 7 years,  with a new coaching staff and basically a new QB.

Stay the course.   Add talent to the defense.

Eagles Points For - per game

2021 - #11
2020 - #26
2019 - #12
2018 - #18
2017 - #3
2016 - #16
2015 - #13

 

Interesting 🤔 curious to know what the strength of schedule was like in those other years. Comparable to this years or tougher. Genuinely don't know myself....