Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[Shalodeep]

8 hours ago, DBW said:

I realize that, I’m saying that the "report” you cited makes it seem that way. Typical philly media starting crap as usual. They don’t want Jalen here. This is the start of them trying to run him out. It’s classless BS from the same hacks. 

ESPN wrote that one up. Almost every media person I hear defends Jalen so no idea where this came from. Only person I hear who is out on Jalen overall is Dan Sileo and he still has some wait and see in his takes. 

[eagle45]

10 hours ago, DBW said:

I realize that, I’m saying that the "report” you cited makes it seem that way. Typical philly media starting crap as usual. They don’t want Jalen here. This is the start of them trying to run him out. It’s classless BS from the same hacks. 

A majority of the media adores Hurts and the rest are very reluctant to criticize him.  
 

It’s actually remarkable that a qb with so little talent, not drafted in round 1, who has looked so bad as a passer in the nfl, is acknowledged by so many as a mid level starting qb.

[Iggles_Phan]

10 hours ago, DBW said:

I realize that, I’m saying that the "report” you cited makes it seem that way. Typical philly media starting crap as usual. They don’t want Jalen here. This is the start of them trying to run him out. It’s classless BS from the same hacks. 

Who are 'they'?  Specific names would be nice with some quotes of them being mean to Jalen.

[Perforator]

13 hours ago, NJWolverEagle11 said:

Oh man, remember that first game in 2004. I think it was against the Ravens. 80 yard TD opening play of the game. That was great.

[brkmsn]

23 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

It’s actually remarkable that a qb with so little talent, 

lol

24 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

not drafted in round 1

This makes no difference. A majority of 1st rd QBs don't pan out and the HOF has plenty of examples of QBs not drafted in round 1. Drew Brees and Tom Brady will soon be added to that list. Why people bring up his draft position is beyond me. Some of them think we have a real gem in Carson Strong. 

34 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

who has looked so bad as a passer in the nfl,

Yep. At times he really looked like a young QB and played poorly. At other times, he showed a lot of promise ... you know ... like a young QB. 

 

38 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

 is acknowledged by so many as a mid level starting qb.

Shocking!

[DBW]

31 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Who are 'they'?  Specific names would be nice with some quotes of them being mean to Jalen.

Marcus Hayes for one.

Then there was that whole campaign to get russel wilson or anyone but Jalen by the dope on the morning show 

https://barrettsportsmedia.com/2022/03/02/angelo-cataldi-announces-wip-endorsement-for-eagles-qb-in-2022/amp/

joe de camera hates on him all the time

 

[Shalodeep]

14 minutes ago, DBW said:

Marcus Hayes for one.

Then there was that whole campaign to get russel wilson or anyone but Jalen by the dope on the morning show 

https://barrettsportsmedia.com/2022/03/02/angelo-cataldi-announces-wip-endorsement-for-eagles-qb-in-2022/amp/

joe de camera hates on him all the time

 

Ummm...they hate him for wanting to upgrade with a top ten QB....yeah, no lol when you can have a top tier, why get the store brand version

[eagle45]

3 hours ago, brkmsn said:

lol

This makes no difference. A majority of 1st rd QBs don't pan out and the HOF has plenty of examples of QBs not drafted in round 1. Drew Brees and Tom Brady will soon be added to that list. Why people bring up his draft position is beyond me. Some of them think we have a real gem in Carson Strong. 

Yep. At times he really looked like a young QB and played poorly. At other times, he showed a lot of promise ... you know ... like a young QB. 

 

Shocking!

Expand on the little talent "lol”

[brkmsn]

6 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Expand on the little talent "lol”

I understand he's not your "style" of QB. But your distaste for him or his style does not mean he lacks talent. Saying he "has so little talent" is a joke. 

[eagle45]

51 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

I understand he's not your "style" of QB. But your distaste for him or his style does not mean he lacks talent. Saying he "has so little talent" is a joke. 

Short, weak arm, poor ability to process the field.    There is no amount of running ability that makes those aforementioned traits fall into the category of "talented.”

If Hurts succeeds, it will be despite his "talent.”

[brkmsn]

41 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Short, weak arm, poor ability to process the field.    There is no amount of running ability that makes those aforementioned traits fall into the category of "talented.”

If Hurts succeeds, it will be despite his "talent.”

Once again --- lol.

Murray is 5' 10", Wilson is 5' 11", Brees was 6', Hurts is 6' 1. 

His arm isn't "weak" no matter how many times you type it. 

Traits and talent are not interchangeable words. "Dual threat" is a trait. "Natural leader" is a trait. "Strong arm" is a trait. "Accurate passer" is a trait. "Hard worker" is a trait. Talent is broader word that describes how well a person can use traits. A "strong arm" is not a football "talent" if it very inaccurate. A "hard worker" surely isn't talented just because he works hard. 

If Hurts succeeds, it will because of his talent, not his traits. 

[Shalodeep]

32 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Once again --- lol.

Murray is 5' 10", Wilson is 5' 11", Brees was 6', Hurts is 6' 1. 

His arm isn't "weak" no matter how many times you type it. 

Traits and talent are not interchangeable words. "Dual threat" is a trait. "Natural leader" is a trait. "Strong arm" is a trait. "Accurate passer" is a trait. "Hard worker" is a trait. Talent is broader word that describes how well a person can use traits. A "strong arm" is not a football "talent" if it very inaccurate. A "hard worker" surely isn't talented just because he works hard. 

If Hurts succeeds, it will because of his talent, not his traits. 

Okay so average to below average traits outside of mobility and not enough talent to maximize them the way Drew Brees did? Did I use your example correctly?

[brkmsn]

Just now, Shalodeep said:

Okay so average to below average traits outside of mobility and not enough talent to maximize them the way Drew Brees did? Did I use your example correctly?

Well let's see, he's taller than Drew Brees, has a stronger arm than Brees, is a similar leader to Brees, is less accurate than (late career) Brees, is less effective in the pocket than Brees, but is more effective outside the pocket than Brees. Both guys had very similar 2nd seasons (their 1st as full-time starters) with Hurts having the edge statistically in every stat category. 

It's funny how the story of Drew Brees is never really taken into consideration. In his 3rd season, he flat-out sucked. But he rebounded the next year in a big way. Then he regressed in his 5th season and the Saints allowed him walk in free agency after he refused their incentive based contract offer. Since he had only shown flashes of greatness in the first 5 seasons, but not consistency from one year to the next, his team was fine with moving on from him. He would go on to have a sure HOF career as a Saint and the Chargers would ride with Rivers with nothing to show for it. 

Meanwhile, in Philly, fans are worried that Hurts will show improvement in his 3rd year and get a long-term contract. Brees was anything but consistent on a yearly basis for the Chargers. He showed flashes, but the team was afraid to commit with a huge contract. As soon as he left, he began his career as a saint and was a model of consistency for over a decade. It's amazing how much a QB can grow and mature and learn after 5 seasons in the NFL. But nobody ever thinks of Brees' Chargers years. We just expect every young QB to burst on to the scene or they are a bust.

[Shalodeep]

14 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

Well let's see, he's taller than Drew Brees, has a stronger arm than Brees, is a similar leader to Brees, is less accurate than (late career) Brees, is less effective in the pocket than Brees, but is more effective outside the pocket than Brees. Both guys had very similar 2nd seasons (their 1st as full-time starters) with Hurts having the edge statistically in every stat category. 

It's funny how the story of Drew Brees is never really taken into consideration. In his 3rd season, he flat-out sucked. But he rebounded the next year in a big way. Then he regressed in his 5th season and the Saints allowed him walk in free agency after he refused their incentive based contract offer. Since he had only shown flashes of greatness in the first 5 seasons, but not consistency from one year to the next, his team was fine with moving on from him. He would go on to have a sure HOF career as a Saint and the Chargers would ride with Rivers with nothing to show for it. 

Meanwhile, in Philly, fans are worried that Hurts will show improvement in his 3rd year and get a long-term contract. Brees was anything but consistent on a yearly basis for the Chargers. He showed flashes, but the team was afraid to commit with a huge contract. As soon as he left, he began his career as a saint and was a model of consistency for over a decade. It's amazing how much a QB can grow and mature and learn after 5 seasons in the NFL. But nobody ever thinks of Brees' Chargers years. We just expect every young QB to burst on to the scene or they are a bust.

Talking about a different league then than now. Far more patience. I know he just retired, but Brees was drafted 21 years ago....league has changed so much since then. People also came in a lot less unpolished, even higher draft picks. Hurts lived and breathed being a quarterback since a young age and still looks as raw as many college freshman. There is a difference in opinion of how far he can go with what he has shown so far. He hasn't shown elite highs, just very good...but his lows are gag worthy. So chances are his basement becomes below average, and ceiling is probably good but inconsistent by laws of averages. Brees developing into a HoF is beyond rare and shouldn't be relied on for Hurts getting more time 

#15-DREW BREES Purdue University Boilermakers 5:11.7-221

 

ANALYSIS

Positives... Touch passer with the ability to read and diagnose defensive coverages...Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle...Very tough and mobile moving around in the pocket...Has a quick setup and is very effective throwing on the move...Throws across his body with great consistency...Hits receivers in stride and improvises his throws in order to make a completion...Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes...Shows good judgement and keen field vision...Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure...Hits receivers in motion with impressive velocity...Has superb pocket presence and uses all of his offensive weapons in order to move the chains...Has solid body mechanics and quickness moving away from center... Elusive scrambler with the body control to avoid the rush.

 

Negatives... Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun... Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws... Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment.

 

Do you wanna compare this to what Hurts draft profile says?

[brkmsn]

2 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Talking about a different league then than now. Far more patience. I know he just retired, but Brees was drafted 21 years ago....league has changed so much since then. People also came in a lot less unpolished, even higher draft picks. Hurts lived and breathed being a quarterback since a young age and still looks as raw as many college freshman. There is a difference in opinion of how far he can go with what he has shown so far. He hasn't shown elite highs, just very good...but his lows are gag worthy. So chances are his basement becomes below average, and ceiling is probably good but inconsistent by laws of averages. Brees developing into a HoF is beyond rare and shouldn't be relied on for Hurts getting more time 

#15-DREW BREES Purdue University Boilermakers 5:11.7-221

 

ANALYSIS

Positives... Touch passer with the ability to read and diagnose defensive coverages...Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle...Very tough and mobile moving around in the pocket...Has a quick setup and is very effective throwing on the move...Throws across his body with great consistency...Hits receivers in stride and improvises his throws in order to make a completion...Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes...Shows good judgement and keen field vision...Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure...Hits receivers in motion with impressive velocity...Has superb pocket presence and uses all of his offensive weapons in order to move the chains...Has solid body mechanics and quickness moving away from center... Elusive scrambler with the body control to avoid the rush.

 

Negatives... Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun... Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws... Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment.

 

Do you wanna compare this to what Hurts draft profile says?

It's a bit of a cop-out to always fall back on "things have changed since then." It's still the game of football.

Are you actually arguing that Brees came into the NFL less polished as a passer than Hurts? I'm not sure what your age is, but it's probably safe to assume you weren't watching college football in those days. Brees was quite the phenom and was setting school, conference, and NCAA passing records. 

"Ceilings" are projections or predictions. They are as pretend as role play. 

We can go back and forth in this exchange and nothing will matter until things actually play out. The difference between you and I is I'm not married to an argument that "Hurts will fail" or "Hurts will succeed." I don't have to validate a prognostication since I haven't made one. I support Hurts 100% as the starting QB on the Eagles until someone better takes his job away.

[Iggles_Phan]

6 hours ago, DBW said:

Marcus Hayes for one.

Then there was that whole campaign to get russel wilson or anyone but Jalen by the dope on the morning show 

https://barrettsportsmedia.com/2022/03/02/angelo-cataldi-announces-wip-endorsement-for-eagles-qb-in-2022/amp/

joe de camera hates on him all the time

 

Thanks for sharing specifics.  That is often lacking around here.  I disagree with your overgeneralization, but you do have some basis for this opinion.  You are lumping all of the Philly media into one group because of two guys, whose job it is to drum up conversation in the offseason... and Marcus Hayes.  I won't go into my opinion of Marcus Hayes, but... basically, that's a pretty narrow group. 

[Shalodeep]

11 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

It's a bit of a cop-out to always fall back on "things have changed since then." It's still the game of football.

Are you actually arguing that Brees came into the NFL less polished as a passer than Hurts? I'm not sure what your age is, but it's probably safe to assume you weren't watching college football in those days. Brees was quite the phenom and was setting school, conference, and NCAA passing records. 

"Ceilings" are projections or predictions. They are as pretend as role play. 

We can go back and forth in this exchange and nothing will matter until things actually play out. The difference between you and I is I'm not married to an argument that "Hurts will fail" or "Hurts will succeed." I don't have to validate a prognostication since I haven't made one. I support Hurts 100% as the starting QB on the Eagles until someone better takes his job away.

Phenom drafted at #32?  Technically a second rounder just like Jalen who was drafted 21 picks later in the draft. Coming from a spread offense just like Jalen. He wasn't some phenom coming out, he was the best of the second tier for that draft. Who have revisionist history here? 

[Iggles_Phan]

1 hour ago, brkmsn said:

Well let's see, he's taller than Drew Brees, has a stronger arm than Brees, is a similar leader to Brees, is less accurate than (late career) Brees, is less effective in the pocket than Brees, but is more effective outside the pocket than Brees. Both guys had very similar 2nd seasons (their 1st as full-time starters) with Hurts having the edge statistically in every stat category. 

You can't compare pre-2005 NFL passing stats to today's NFL.  That's a false equivalency.  

 

 

[Iggles_Phan]

28 minutes ago, brkmsn said:

It's a bit of a cop-out to always fall back on "things have changed since then." It's still the game of football.

Rule changes dramatically favor the offense, and specifically the passing game much more now than it did 20 years ago, and way way more than 40 years ago.   Is it still called football?  Of course... but the game of today is dramatically different and it continues to evolve every generation, expedited by rule changes to increase scoring/drive ratings.

[DBW]

26 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Thanks for sharing specifics.  That is often lacking around here.  I disagree with your overgeneralization, but you do have some basis for this opinion.  You are lumping all of the Philly media into one group because of two guys, whose job it is to drum up conversation in the offseason... and Marcus Hayes.  I won't go into my opinion of Marcus Hayes, but... basically, that's a pretty narrow group. 

There are certainly some who are worse than others at their witch hunts.  Angelo backed off after he realized knowledgeable nfl guys think highly of jalen.  De camera has since changed his opinion as well and is now a "wait and see” guy despite crying for his benching most of last season.  There are others I did not mention but those are the more widely followed I suppose.  It’s Philly - the backup qbs and goaltenders are the favorites and every coach should be fired the second they don’t win every game by 40 pts or 5 goals. Look what they did to girardi after what they did to Kapler. Giants look pretty good right now don’t they?  It’s just how it is around here. Worst sports media city to be in. 

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, DBW said:

There are certainly some who are worse than others at their witch hunts.  Angelo backed off after he realized knowledgeable nfl guys think highly of jalen.  De camera has since changed his opinion as well and is now a "wait and see” guy despite crying for his benching most of last season.  There are others I did not mention but those are the more widely followed I suppose.  It’s Philly - the backup qbs and goaltenders are the favorites and every coach should be fired the second they don’t win every game by 40 pts or 5 goals. Look what they did to girardi after what they did to Kapler. Giants look pretty good right now don’t they?  It’s just how it is around here. Worst sports media city to be in. 

Look what the Phillies have done since Girardi was fired.  Maybe that was the right move.  They won 8 games in a row before today since firing Girardi.  Is that a coincidence?  Maybe.  Hard to prove that right now though.

[Swoop]

45 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You can't compare pre-2005 NFL passing stats to today's NFL.  That's a false equivalency.  

 

 

Thank you. 

It's the same dopes that compare Hurts and McNabb without realizing why the comparison doesn't work.

[eagle45]

Drew Brees is a HOF qb who was unquestionably not a big talent.  He succeeded despite natural talent.

[eagle45]

4 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Once again --- lol.

Murray is 5' 10", Wilson is 5' 11", Brees was 6', Hurts is 6' 1. 

His arm isn't "weak" no matter how many times you type it. 

Traits and talent are not interchangeable words. "Dual threat" is a trait. "Natural leader" is a trait. "Strong arm" is a trait. "Accurate passer" is a trait. "Hard worker" is a trait. Talent is broader word that describes how well a person can use traits. A "strong arm" is not a football "talent" if it very inaccurate. A "hard worker" surely isn't talented just because he works hard. 

If Hurts succeeds, it will because of his talent, not his traits. 

Now you are arguing semantics.  Again, short with a weak arm and extremely raw sophistication as a passer is not talented in anyone’s book in the history of football with the exception of a fan boy of the player.

And no matter how many times you deny it, he’s got a weak arm.  And the success of other short qbs doesn’t change the fact that shot is undesirable, just like the rest of Hurts’ talent/traits.

[brkmsn]

2 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Phenom drafted at #32?  Technically a second rounder just like Jalen who was drafted 21 picks later in the draft. Coming from a spread offense just like Jalen. He wasn't some phenom coming out, he was the best of the second tier for that draft. Who have revisionist history here? 

He was a "phenom" in college. Plenty of football fans were talking him up during his (college) career.  There were questions about his size coming into the NFL, just like with Wilson. This time, I'll actually ask you, how old were you when Brees was drafted? 

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You can't compare pre-2005 NFL passing stats to today's NFL.  That's a false equivalency.  

We can absolutely compare stats from different eras --- especially something as recent as Brees and McNabb. Dan Marino was passing for 5000 yards before 5000 yards was cool. You guys act like it wasn't there for the taking. If Andy Reid had been a head coach in the 80s, the NFL would have had at least 1 more team that didn't believe you needed to balance the run and pass. When considering a guy like Jalen Hurts, explain why we can't compare him to players of an older era, since in your mind he doesn't resemble today's "elite" passing QBs.