Jalen Hurts - shoulder sprain injury; expected for playoffs

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

You ever heard of snap counts? That's how you compare stats

OK

Minshew, .0755 TD's per snap

Hurts, .0629 TD's per snap

 

 

[Shalodeep]

6 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

This is what he said.

"So how did a worse QB put up better number on a worse team ????"

He said Minshew's numbers were better. I showed that they weren't, and got worse in a number of areas in his second year. Which is why he was benched and then traded.

My reading comprehension is fine. Yours, not so much. 

Read again sir. It's okay. I'll give you a third shot at it 

[jsb235]

4 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

You know when someone lost? When they keep doing the "you aren't a professional" on a literal fan board. You don't have a winning ground to stand on with any stats so this is the hill you die on.

I posted the stats. I also think it is relevant, along with the stats, that the opinion of you and downundermike that Minshew should be starting is not shared by anyone who is connected to the NFL in a professional capacity.

This is what we call a red flag. But you keep doing you. 

[Iggles_Phan]

50 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

They have no one better because they chose to draft a running back to play quarterback in round 2 and then to commit to him.

So far, that commitment has been minimal in terms of long-term.

[The Blackfish]

On 6/7/2022 at 2:53 PM, Vileborg said:

He still has a number of issues that need to be addressed.

1. Needs to be able to throw back to his left.

2. Needs to learn to step up in the pocket instead of stepping out. (No Happy Feet)

3. Needs to learn anticipation and timing

4. Then there is the whole chess match with a defense to which he was completely blind too last year

The mechanics get him in the door but he still has much work to do. We'll have to wait until the season to find out where he ends up. He better learn to read defenses because there is tape out there of him being oblivious to what the Bucs were trying to do.

 A lot of it I believe has to do with his height,  the jump pass interception he threw against TB in the playoffs proved it.  
 Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert are all 6’3” and up.  Tua, Murray, Mayfield and Hurts are all under, look at the two QB’s somewhat recently that have won SB’s, Brees and Wilson, both are HOF passers, so is Rodgers at just above 6’2”. 
 If you can’t see plays to be made, it doesn’t matter how much offseason work you do, unless it makes him taller by 2”s 

[eagle45]

48 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

So far, that commitment has been minimal in terms of long-term.

He’s entering year 3 of his career and year 2 as the starter without any competition.  While the financial commitment (extension) isn’t there, that’s still a LOT more commitment than his talent or production deserve.

There is the list of QBs that teams clearly just don’t care about and will move on from as soon as a new prospect (or better vet) is available…the Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold’s of the league.  Based on both actions and words, Hurts has more commitment than that.  And he’s easily the worst qb in the league who isn’t on that list.

[Shalodeep]

43 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I posted the stats. I also think it is relevant, along with the stats, that the opinion of you and downundermike that Minshew should be starting is not shared by anyone who is connected to the NFL in a professional capacity.

This is what we call a red flag. But you keep doing you. 

Minshew in 22 starts 41 TDS 12Ints 5969 yards 63.2%  completion rushing 518yards 1td

Hurts in 19 starts 22 TDS 13Ints 4205 yards 59% completion rushing 1138 yards 13 TDS 

Minshew as a passer smokes Hurts while also being on a worse team. even adding the running yards and touchdowns doesn't put hurts in the lead in any category. Minshew is mobile too in case you never watched him play. Just doesn't live and die by his legs. 

[Iggles_Phan]

26 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

He’s entering year 3 of his career and year 2 as the starter without any competition.  While the financial commitment (extension) isn’t there, that’s still a LOT more commitment than his talent or production deserve.

There is the list of QBs that teams clearly just don’t care about and will move on from as soon as a new prospect (or better vet) is available…the Daniel Jones or Sam Darnold’s of the league.  Based on both actions and words, Hurts has more commitment than that.  And he’s easily the worst qb in the league who isn’t on that list.

I agree... but I think that the commitment we've seen is mostly due to truly having no better viable option to turn to.  Minshew would be marginally better in the passing game, though the team might actually end up with a worse record.  And he's still got value, so they can't scrap heap him, as they'll try to flip him for assets when they finally do move on after this year.

[jsb235]

30 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

Minshew in 22 starts 41 TDS 12Ints 5969 yards 63.2%  completion rushing 518yards 1td

Hurts in 19 starts 22 TDS 13Ints 4205 yards 59% completion rushing 1138 yards 13 TDS 

Minshew as a passer smokes Hurts while also being on a worse team. even adding the running yards and touchdowns doesn't put hurts in the lead in any category. Minshew is mobile too in case you never watched him play. Just doesn't live and die by his legs. 

Here are the raw stats for each guy.

Minshew, 1,630 snaps, 6,487 yards, 42 TDs, 22 turnovers. 3.97 yards per snap, .0257 TDs per snap, .013 turnovers per snap.

Hurts, 1,288 snaps, 5,343 yards,  35 TDs, 17 turnovers. 4.14 yards per snap, .0271 TDs per snap, .013 turnovers per snap.

His stats aren't better. They are worse. Stop saying they are.

Also, Minshew didn't improve in a number of key categories from year one to year two, and in fact was worse. If he had improved, he would still be a starter.

Hurts did, which is why he has a starting job.

[Shalodeep]

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

Here are the raw stats for each guy.

Minshew, 1,630 snaps, 6,487 yards, 42 TDs, 22 turnovers. 3.97 yards per snap, .0257 TDs per snap, .013 turnovers per snap.

Hurts, 1,288 snaps, 5,343 yards,  35 TDs, 17 turnovers. 4.14 yards per snap, .0271 TDs per snap, .013 turnovers per snap.

His stats aren't better. They are worse. Stop saying they are.

Also, Minshew didn't improve in a number of key categories from year one to year two, and in fact was worse. If he had improved, he would still be a starter.

Hurts did, which is why he has a starting job.

So Minshew is punished for averaging 7 more snaps a game aka sustaining more drives in your equation? Maybe that's how he gets more touchdowns, yards, etc. Cute way to manipulate the stats, but my stats still remain and Hurts isn't as good as Minshew up to this point in their careers. 

[brkmsn]

Jalen Hurts is the starter. It's his job to lose. Minshew is the backup and trade bait. Some fans feel we're wasting time with Hurts. Arguing with those fans is the true waste of time (if you believe you're going to change their minds). Hurts could lead the offense on a team that goes to and wins a Super Bowl, win Super Bowl MVP, win league MVP, win offensive player of the year and these same people, for the most part, would still have their doubts, argue it was a fluke, and pick apart everything he didn't do right. While that isn't my prediction for Hurts or the season, I do expect continued improvement from him as well as from the team. Hurts will continue to climb the ladder in NFL QB rankings as he matures as gains more experience. At the end of the year, there will still be several QBs around the NFL that are better (passers) than him, but they aren't on our roster. I support Hurts and I like Minshew too. I've yet to see Strong play an NFL snap and am not going to sit here and heap praise on him at this time, but it will be cool if he shows well in the preseason. 

[eagle45]

1 hour ago, jsb235 said:

Here are the raw stats for each guy.

Minshew, 1,630 snaps, 6,487 yards, 42 TDs, 22 turnovers. 3.97 yards per snap, .0257 TDs per snap, .013 turnovers per snap.

Hurts, 1,288 snaps, 5,343 yards,  35 TDs, 17 turnovers. 4.14 yards per snap, .0271 TDs per snap, .013 turnovers per snap.

His stats aren't better. They are worse. Stop saying they are.

Also, Minshew didn't improve in a number of key categories from year one to year two, and in fact was worse. If he had improved, he would still be a starter.

Hurts did, which is why he has a starting job.

And you continue to lump in rushing numbers.  You can continue to argue it’s equivalent, others will continue to argue that it’s not.  But the fact remains that he’s a decisively inferior passer than Minshew, a journeyman backup.

[Shalodeep]

Minshew
 294.86 yards per game
1.9 TDS per game
1turnover per game

281.21 yards per game 
1.84 TDS per game 
.9 turnover per game

Minshew is more productive per game than Hurts from a worse team. 

[brkmsn]

5 hours ago, Shalodeep said:

Minshew is more productive per game than Hurts from a worse team. 

Are you saying that he was basically playing the whole time in "garbage time?"

[brkmsn]

 

[Cochis_Calhoun]

6 hours ago, brkmsn said:

Are you saying that he was basically playing the whole time in "garbage time?"

I wondered how long it would be before someone asked that question, I predict a hurricane of double standards is about to hit the thread.

Someone will compare Jacksonville's 'worse' receivers to what we had behind Smith soon.

Or maybe there's some other reason nobody but us traded for him and we didn't even consider him as starter last year, maybe there really is a snowball in hells chance we will make a UDFA starter in mid year.

[Shalodeep]

2 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said:

I wondered how long it would be before someone asked that question, I predict a hurricane of double standards is about to hit the thread.

Someone will compare Jacksonville's 'worse' receivers to what we had behind Smith soon.

Or maybe there's some other reason nobody but us traded for him and we didn't even consider him as starter last year, maybe there really is a snowball in hells chance we will make a UDFA starter in mid year.

Won't get a double standard from me. There was definitely some garbage time scoring for Jacksonville in 2019 and definitely 2020. He started 20 games during that time period and went 7-13. He beat out Foles for the gig and took it back to finish 2019. In 12 starts in 2019 he was 6-6 with three fourth quarter wins and threw 21 TDS and 6 ints. I can't say if the receivers are better or worse because of how Gardner distributes the ball (chark 1008, Conley 775, Westbrook 660). Their tight end room was bottom of the barrel, and their RB was balanced (Fournette 1152 rush 552 receiving). 2019 was very promising for Minshew with a very bad coaching staff. I think Smith is better than chark and Watkins is a much better player than Conley (Gardner gave him his career year, only passing 500 yards one other time in career). 2020 wasn't a successful year for the team at all, but in his eight starts, he averaged two passing touchdowns a game and completion percentage jumped 6 percent. Sadly, it's the jaguars and they have picked first overall two years in a row for a reason. It's a really bad organization. They got the first overall this year with golden boy at QB because once again bad coaching. Hopefully for them Dougie P can at least make them relevant again. But back to Minshew. For the dude saying he got worse in 2020....I can't agree considering he had more touchdowns per game and a much higher completion percentage on a dreadful team. I am aware that in Philadelphia he is a backup...I'm just not understanding as of why when statistically he is a pretty damn solid player. Sadly in the NFL right now either people got their QB, got their prospect QB, or already paying the place holder waiting for 2023 draft to come around. It was rumored that they had been offered a decent pick for him this year, but chose to keep him instead. I don't think that should be ignored on how Philly feels about him in the QB room, or their comfort of putting him on the field. If Hurts doesn't progress or gets hurt, I think the coaches and upper management knows he will come in and move the ball no problem. The way this team is built is made for a distributor of the ball, and right now QB1 doesn't distribute well. That is where many of us are frustrated. You have a team that just needs an accurate QB with a quick release, and we are running out an admitted project backup QB... 

 

 

 

[Bwestbrook36]

This thread 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[NOTW]

11 hours ago, brkmsn said:

 

 

QB University is back.

 

[DBW]

💪 💪 

[DBW]

On 6/9/2022 at 2:28 AM, Bwestbrook36 said:

Early reports are already saying Brown and Hurts can't get on the same page and it's a struggle. 

The report I heard is that AJ told Jalen to overthrow him every time so that he can go get it.  He prefers to run and catch in stride not wait on balls.  Jalen needs to learn to throw the receivers open.  That was AJs point in saying it.  But let’s not make it out to sound like they’re not getting along already.  Any new qb/wr combination takes time to build chemistry.  

[eagle45]

8 minutes ago, DBW said:

The report I heard is that AJ told Jalen to overthrow him every time so that he can go get it.  He prefers to run and catch in stride not wait on balls.  Jalen needs to learn to throw the receivers open.  That was AJs point in saying it.  But let’s not make it out to sound like they’re not getting along already.  Any new qb/wr combination takes time to build chemistry.  

Rb/wr combos take even longer.

[Bwestbrook36]

2 hours ago, DBW said:

The report I heard is that AJ told Jalen to overthrow him every time so that he can go get it.  He prefers to run and catch in stride not wait on balls.  Jalen needs to learn to throw the receivers open.  That was AJs point in saying it.  But let’s not make it out to sound like they’re not getting along already.  Any new qb/wr combination takes time to build chemistry.  

Didn't say they don't get along

[NJWolverEagle11]

2 hours ago, DBW said:

The report I heard is that AJ told Jalen to overthrow him every time so that he can go get it.  He prefers to run and catch in stride not wait on balls.  Jalen needs to learn to throw the receivers open.  That was AJs point in saying it.  But let’s not make it out to sound like they’re not getting along already.  Any new qb/wr combination takes time to build chemistry.  

[DBW]

2 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Didn't say they don't get along

I realize that, I’m saying that the "report” you cited makes it seem that way. Typical philly media starting crap as usual. They don’t want Jalen here. This is the start of them trying to run him out. It’s classless BS from the same hacks.