EMB Blog: 2021 Offseason

[LeanMeanGM]

3 minutes ago, TEW said:

Who do you want at 6 that won’t be available at 8 and significantly better than who will be available at 8?

No one, it was joke that this FO has no idea what they are doing 

[Iggles_Phan]

20 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I think he’s the most interesting non-hyped young player on the team.  He also made the most of his sparse opportunity last year, which is more than can be said for almost any young player on the team.

Agreed.  He actually did what we were supposed to see from Reagor, but only once or twice.  It will be interesting to see him with a new coaching staff, but I think Moorehead is back.

[Iggles_Phan]

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

No one, it was joke that this FO has no idea what they are doing 

Seemed obvious as landing back at 6 would nullify the earlier move.

[austinfan]

Fulgham does fit the Allen/Pittman big WR with average speed but good skills that Sirianni has had success with in SD and Indy.

With Reagor, Fulgram and Watkins, I won't be surprised if Waddle/Smith aren't a priority, they can add a young WR or two later in the draft.

It's not that they don't need to pugrade, but Sirianni may feel he can scheme more out of the players they have on offense, whereas the defense has to be revamped.

 

[bpac55]

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Fulgham does fit the Allen/Pittman big WR with average speed but good skills that Sirianni has had success with in SD and Indy.

With Reagor, Fulgram and Watkins, I won't be surprised if Waddle/Smith aren't a priority, they can add a young WR or two later in the draft.

It's not that they don't need to pugrade, but Sirianni may feel he can scheme more out of the players they have on offense, whereas the defense has to be revamped.

 

I've been back and forth on who I want them to pick and what I think they should do.  I like Waddle but I think in terms of value, if you can get one of Terrace Marshall,  Rondale Moore, Elijah Moore, Rashod Bateman or Kadarius Toney at 37 while improving the defense at 12 I think that's the way to go.  Marshall is the one I would really like as I see the rest are almost interchangeable. 

If Horn/Surtain are gone I think they need to trade back.  I don't like someone like Paye or Barmore at 12.  I think Greg Newsome is just a notch below Surtain and Horn and if they can move back 5-7 spots and nab him I would be all for that.  Man I wish Farley would just be healthy.

I was against CB that high but I think with the holes we have and who might be there it's the way to go.  I really like the thought of getting a top corner this year and having a shot at Stingley next year.  

So corner at 12 or trade down and tier 2 WR at 37.  My ideal right now would be Horn and Marhsall. 

[RememberTheKoy]

If Horn is there at 12 they must take him. 

[eagle45]

55 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

Caplan said he suffered an injury which hindered his play 

Yeah they said JJAW was injured and that's why he sucked as a rookie.

[Texas Eagle]

1 hour ago, schuy7 said:

If Quez could catch, he might be a player. He doesn't have the hands right now at least.

Based on what?

[T-1000]

7 hours ago, bpac55 said:

McShay and Kiper did a round 1-3 mock draft.  I'd be thrilled if this was the outcome. 

12. Philadelphia Eagles (via MIA through SF) — McShay’s pick: Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama.

Philly can exhale: The Eagles moved back to No. 12 and still got one of the top four pass-catchers. Waddle is the most dangerous player in the class with the ball in his hands.

Not a bad start. I’m partial to DeVonta Smith in part because I think he projects to be much more of a sure thing at the NFL level. But Smith went off the board at No. 11 and Waddle is reasonably the best player available at a big position of need. Waddle could give the Eagles what they thought they were getting in Jalen Reagor.

37. Philadelphia Eagles — Kiper’s pick: Nick Bolton, LB, Missouri

This is a great fit for the Eagles, who need a sideline-to-sideline middle linebacker in new coordinator Jonathan Gannon’s defense. Bolton is a tackling machine.

We all know about the Eagles not drafting a linebacker in the first round since 1979. In addition to that, Howie Roseman has never drafted one higher than when he took Mychal Kendricks at No. 46 in 2012. So, this would be a historic pick for Philly’s current front office. Not impossible to envision, though, with Jonathan Gannon coaching in environments that prioritized the linebacker position much more than the Eagles have for some time. Bolton could compete for a starting job as a rookie.

70. Philadelphia Eagles — McShay’s pick: Ifeatu Melifonwu, CB, Syracuse

Melifonwu needs some refining, but he has a lot of upside as a press corner. The Eagles are lacking depth at the position beyond Darius Slay and Avonte Maddox (who could be a free agent in 2022).

Ifeatu is the younger brother of Obi and, most importantly, a friend of The SB Nation NFL Show. I’m sure some won’t be thrilled to see the Eagles wait this long to address cornerback given the barren state of that position. But Philly is gambling on upside here. Melifonwu is only 21 and, not unlike his big bro, offers an intriguing blend of size and athleticism. Check the spider graph for this 6-2, 205-pound corner:

84. Philadelphia Eagles (via IND) — McShay’s pick: Andre Cisco, S, Syracuse

Cisco is a ball hawk on the back end, hauling in 13 interceptions over 24 career games. The Eagles were one of four teams in the single-digits in that category last season.

The final pick has the Eagles double-dipping in the Orange’s secondary. It’s hard not to like Cisco’s ball production. In addition to the picks, he also had 14 passes defensed, two forced fumbles, two sacks, and one defensive touchdown. Cisco has a knack for being aggressive, which others may coin as reckless. His 2020 season was cut short after he "collided with a teammate during pregame warmups.” Cisco’s NFL success seems especially dependent on a coaching staff that can really play to his strengths and mitigate his weaknesses.

Obviously, this is just a look at one of the many different ways how the Eagles’ draft could play out. I do like them prioritizing an offensive weapon and boosting the defense here.

I love every pick with the exception of Nick Bolton at 37 which I downright loathe. He has two down LB written all over him and I'm not drafting that type of guy with a premium pick like 37.

[ManuManu]

1 minute ago, T-1000 said:

I love every pick with the exception of Nick Bolton at 37 which I downright loathe. He has two down LB written all over him and I'm not drafting that type of guy with a premium pick like 37.

Bolton at 37 is an easy pass. He’s small, short-armed and straight line. 

Cisco is a weird one. He makes a lot of plays, but gives up a lot too. I don’t know what to make of that. 

[eagle45]

For the Davis Mills (Stanford QB) fan club, he's officially getting first round chatter.

Lawrence/Wilson/Fields/Jones/Lance/Mills...are there 6 teams ready to plunk 1st round picks in QBs?

[eagle45]

7 hours ago, bpac55 said:

McShay and Kiper did a round 1-3 mock draft.  I'd be thrilled if this was the outcome. 

12. Philadelphia Eagles (via MIA through SF) — McShay’s pick: Jaylen Waddle, WR, Alabama.

Philly can exhale: The Eagles moved back to No. 12 and still got one of the top four pass-catchers. Waddle is the most dangerous player in the class with the ball in his hands.

Not a bad start. I’m partial to DeVonta Smith in part because I think he projects to be much more of a sure thing at the NFL level. But Smith went off the board at No. 11 and Waddle is reasonably the best player available at a big position of need. Waddle could give the Eagles what they thought they were getting in Jalen Reagor.

37. Philadelphia Eagles — Kiper’s pick: Nick Bolton, LB, Missouri

This is a great fit for the Eagles, who need a sideline-to-sideline middle linebacker in new coordinator Jonathan Gannon’s defense. Bolton is a tackling machine.

We all know about the Eagles not drafting a linebacker in the first round since 1979. In addition to that, Howie Roseman has never drafted one higher than when he took Mychal Kendricks at No. 46 in 2012. So, this would be a historic pick for Philly’s current front office. Not impossible to envision, though, with Jonathan Gannon coaching in environments that prioritized the linebacker position much more than the Eagles have for some time. Bolton could compete for a starting job as a rookie.

70. Philadelphia Eagles — McShay’s pick: Ifeatu Melifonwu, CB, Syracuse

Melifonwu needs some refining, but he has a lot of upside as a press corner. The Eagles are lacking depth at the position beyond Darius Slay and Avonte Maddox (who could be a free agent in 2022).

Ifeatu is the younger brother of Obi and, most importantly, a friend of The SB Nation NFL Show. I’m sure some won’t be thrilled to see the Eagles wait this long to address cornerback given the barren state of that position. But Philly is gambling on upside here. Melifonwu is only 21 and, not unlike his big bro, offers an intriguing blend of size and athleticism. Check the spider graph for this 6-2, 205-pound corner:

84. Philadelphia Eagles (via IND) — McShay’s pick: Andre Cisco, S, Syracuse

Cisco is a ball hawk on the back end, hauling in 13 interceptions over 24 career games. The Eagles were one of four teams in the single-digits in that category last season.

The final pick has the Eagles double-dipping in the Orange’s secondary. It’s hard not to like Cisco’s ball production. In addition to the picks, he also had 14 passes defensed, two forced fumbles, two sacks, and one defensive touchdown. Cisco has a knack for being aggressive, which others may coin as reckless. His 2020 season was cut short after he "collided with a teammate during pregame warmups.” Cisco’s NFL success seems especially dependent on a coaching staff that can really play to his strengths and mitigate his weaknesses.

Obviously, this is just a look at one of the many different ways how the Eagles’ draft could play out. I do like them prioritizing an offensive weapon and boosting the defense here.

Replace Bolton with an edge rusher and I'd love it.

[T-1000]

3 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Replace Bolton with an edge rusher and I'd love it.

I would go with Stokes or Samuel at 37, then an edge rusher at 70. They should have a few guys like Basham, Roche, and the two kids from Pittsburgh to choose from. Better yet, go Waddle, Samuel/Stokes, Melifonwu/Joseph, and then one of the edge rushers or a LB  at 84.

[T-1000]

It's not to cost that much to move up to 9 or even 8. It's more about finding a willing partner and wanting to move up than anything else. Here are some mock trades using the jimmie johnson trade value chart that most teams use.

Eagles trade picks 12, 84, and 123 to Denver for a total of 1,419 points for picks 9, and 114 for a total of 1,416 points

Eagles trade picks 12, and 70 to Carolina for a total of 1,440 points to Carolina for picks 8, and 151 for a total of 1,429.4 points

Eagles trade picks 12, 84, and 150 to Carolina for a total of 1,399.8 points to Carolina for pick 8 for a total of 1,400 points.

[TEW]

2 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

No one, it was joke that this FO has no idea what they are doing 

Well, I’m in disagreement.

Picking up a first rounder when everyone around where we were picking is now looking to trade down seems to suggest the FO had a pretty good idea of what they were doing.

Even if we trade back up, if we net a future first by moving back a couple spots and giving up a third, that’s a huge win.

The FO is actually really, really good at moving around in the draft to grind value. And as much as you all may whine about the draft results, we’ve consistently been one of top teams in the NFL for two decades now with very few, and very short lived, rebuilding periods.

[Alphagrand]

4 minutes ago, TEW said:

Well, I’m in disagreement.

Picking up a first rounder when everyone around where we were picking is now looking to trade down seems to suggest the FO had a pretty good idea of what they were doing.

Even if we trade back up, if we net a future first by moving back a couple spots and giving up a third, that’s a huge win.

The FO is actually really, really good at moving around in the draft to grind value. And as much as you all may whine about the draft results, we’ve consistently been one of top teams in the NFL for two decades now with very few, and very short lived, rebuilding periods.

Where the Eagles have been worst at drafting is 2 important areas:

— Drafting and/or developing Pro Bowl level talent.  One player in the last 50 draft picks, and that was Wentz

— The fatal philosophical flaw of reaching; grabbing prospects before their reasonable draft position.  This is called by many as ‘trying to be smarter than everyone else’, by drafting a player and gambling that a few years later they can say ‘See — we knew he was good when no other team did’.  Instead, the Eagles need to switch philosophy toward drafting players who fall in the draft, where it’s more ‘We can’t believe he was still on the board at our slot’ — usually those picks work out better in the long run.

[TEW]

8 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Where the Eagles have been worst at drafting is 2 important areas:

— Drafting and/or developing Pro Bowl level talent.  One player in the last 50 draft picks, and that was Wentz

— The fatal philosophical flaw of reaching; grabbing prospects before their reasonable draft position.  This is called by many as ‘trying to be smarter than everyone else’, by drafting a player and gambling that a few years later they can say ‘See — we knew he was good when no other team did’.  Instead, the Eagles need to switch philosophy toward drafting players who fall in the draft, where it’s more ‘We can’t believe he was still on the board at our slot’ — usually those picks work out better in the long run.

To your second part...

The Eagles have a 20 year history of drafting players at some positions in a particular mold. DE we like short, stout, high motor. OL we tend to go with quick feet especially when they’re connected to a large frame. We like mobile QBs. RBs tend to be average size or smaller and good in the pass game.

I think fans idea of reaching is different than the FO’s. Fans don’t tend to think of scheme fit. We don’t have as much info about their work habits, the skeletons in their closet, how they interview, and so on.

Players who fall or are early picks usually have circumstances surrounding them that we aren’t aware of. Sometimes a guy who falls, by outside perception, ends up being a great player. Sometimes they fail. But I would imagine all of our perceptions would change if we had the info on these players that teams do.

[LeanMeanGM]

34 minutes ago, TEW said:

Well, I’m in disagreement.

Picking up a first rounder when everyone around where we were picking is now looking to trade down seems to suggest the FO had a pretty good idea of what they were doing.

Even if we trade back up, if we net a future first by moving back a couple spots and giving up a third, that’s a huge win.

The FO is actually really, really good at moving around in the draft to grind value. And as much as you all may whine about the draft results, we’ve consistently been one of top teams in the NFL for two decades now with very few, and very short lived, rebuilding periods.

It wasn’t that serious. 

I agree it was smart to trade back when they did. I’m on record saying I don’t think they would be able to wait until draft day especially if the board falls a certain way, like 3-4 QBs going in the top 5. I think they got max return doing it early vs waiting.

It was just a joke because Howie said his plan was to rebuild last year but pivoted to going for it  just like it would be a joke if they traded from #6 to trade out only to trade back to #6. 

[Alphagrand]

1 hour ago, TEW said:

I think fans idea of reaching is different than the FO’s. Fans don’t tend to think of scheme fit. We don’t have as much info about their work habits, the skeletons in their closet, how they interview, and so on.

My idea of reaching was drafting Pumphrey in the 4th round when he had a 6th round grade on him, and trading up to do it.  Drafting Hollins in the 4th round when he had a 5th round grade, because he played catch with Wentz during the summer.  Regardless of scheme fit, those guys weren’t going to be NFL players of any account.

Drafting Hurts in the 2nd round when he was a unanimous 3rd round graded prospect; it would have been infinitely better just to trade up in the 3rd for him, rather than draft Davion Taylor, who — again — was drafted way earlier than his draft grade.

It will be a big step forward this year if there aren’t any picks in the first 4 rounds that make people ask "who?” or "WTF?”

[LeanMeanGM]

FWIW Dane Brugler is on record saying if Hurts was in this draft class he’d be behind the top 5 and Davis Mills 

[e-a-g-l-e-s eagles!]

4 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

FWIW Dane Brugler is on record saying if Hurts was in this draft class he’d be behind the top 5 and Davis Mills 

It was a good interview on the birds with friends podcast. 

[austinfan]

2 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

Where the Eagles have been worst at drafting is 2 important areas:

— Drafting and/or developing Pro Bowl level talent.  One player in the last 50 draft picks, and that was Wentz

— The fatal philosophical flaw of reaching; grabbing prospects before their reasonable draft position.  This is called by many as ‘trying to be smarter than everyone else’, by drafting a player and gambling that a few years later they can say ‘See — we knew he was good when no other team did’.  Instead, the Eagles need to switch philosophy toward drafting players who fall in the draft, where it’s more ‘We can’t believe he was still on the board at our slot’ — usually those picks work out better in the long run.

You mean Dillard?

[austinfan]

31 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

My idea of reaching was drafting Pumphrey in the 4th round when he had a 6th round grade on him, and trading up to do it.  Drafting Hollins in the 4th round when he had a 5th round grade, because he played catch with Wentz during the summer.  Regardless of scheme fit, those guys weren’t going to be NFL players of any account.

Drafting Hurts in the 2nd round when he was a unanimous 3rd round graded prospect; it would have been infinitely better just to trade up in the 3rd for him, rather than draft Davion Taylor, who — again — was drafted way earlier than his draft grade.

It will be a big step forward this year if there aren’t any picks in the first 4 rounds that make people ask "who?” or "WTF?”

These draft "grades" aren't professional judgements, they're guys who do media click bait.

When you actually see draft boards, the one thing that stands out is how much they differ from team to team, especially after the first 15-20 picks.

Some of this is different judgements, but a lot is different schemes/philosophies, a player highly valued by some teams may be way down the board for other teams.

Which means you're generally not competing with the judgments of 31 other GMs, but more the half dozen who value the same players you value.

[austinfan]

2 hours ago, TEW said:

To your second part...

The Eagles have a 20 year history of drafting players at some positions in a particular mold. DE we like short, stout, high motor. OL we tend to go with quick feet especially when they’re connected to a large frame. We like mobile QBs. RBs tend to be average size or smaller and good in the pass game.

A lot of this is simply coaches - AR was the coach for over a decade. Chip only had input for basically two seasons, last five years it's Doug and Schwartz.

New HC, some tweaks to drafting philosophy, Sirianni likes big WRs with average speed, but overall not a huge change, RBs who can catch and pass block, a conventional TE paired with a H-back type, priority on the OL.

Gannon may prefer taller DL, and put a higher priority on LBs and big CBs who can press. But he's still running a 4-3, though more like JJ and less like Schwartz (less emphasis on one gap pass rushers and more on balance at DT with a NT and a "3". Less on speed balls and more on well rounded DE.

It also makes sense to hire coaches with similar schemes, so you tweak the roster instead of having to blow it up everytime you hire a new HC.

[The guy in France]

20 hours ago, devpool said:

I can easily imagine it. When teams move up on draft day they move up knowing they're going to get their guy so they'll be willing to pay more. Pay before the draft and they're going to pay less because th guy they like isn't guaranteed to be there on draft day.

Howie is an idiot, should have stayed at 6 unless they were offered a ridiculous haul. Now we get to see him draft a middling talent at 12 because all the great players they identified will be taken in the top 10. If they really are trying to trade back into the top 10, he's an even bigger idiot. What an absolute Fing clown

2 of Waddle, Smith, Horn, Surtain, Slater, Parsons will be there to chose from. 3 if 5 Qbs go in front of us. Not bad considering getting a 2022 1st right ?