Hawkeye Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Good read on Yahoo Sports that takes a deeper dive. https://sports.yahoo.com/doug-pederson-was-toast-of-philly-eagles-3-seasons-ago-now-hes-fired-how-did-it-end-so-quickly-183447392.html It's worth clicking the link but fundamentally it says Lurie was micromanaging Doug - overruling Doug's decisions on staff and quarterback play. Doug had been a good soldier since the beginning and had worked "collaboratively" with Lurie and Howie but enough was enough. Furthermore, the relationship between Wentz and Doug had deteriorated to the point where they were no longer having productive conversations. Doug was ready to move on without him but Lurie said no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, eglz1 said: Maybe. If he comes out out next season and balls out with a new coach, wouldn't his trade value be higher than it is now? If on the other hand he looks next season like he looked this past season, he ain't gonna be worth a steak 'n' chips. And at that point they wouldn't trade him? So his trade value to this team is as high now as it'll ever be in a scenario where they would trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTW Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Meanwhile in Jacksonville, they've hired a new HC before a GM and Urban Meyer will help select the new GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 39 minutes ago, NOTW said: Meanwhile in Jacksonville, they've hired a new HC before a GM and Urban Meyer will help select the new GM. As they said on BWF... Urban Meyer is very good with strategy... Get out of there before the police show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eglz1 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: And at that point they wouldn't trade him? So his trade value to this team is as high now as it'll ever be in a scenario where they would trade him. It might depend on what they think of Hurts. Do you think they'll keep both going into the regular season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eglz1 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 hours ago, Hawkeye said: Good read on Yahoo Sports that takes a deeper dive. https://sports.yahoo.com/doug-pederson-was-toast-of-philly-eagles-3-seasons-ago-now-hes-fired-how-did-it-end-so-quickly-183447392.html It's worth clicking the link but fundamentally it says Lurie was micromanaging Doug - overruling Doug's decisions on staff and quarterback play. Doug had been a good soldier since the beginning and had worked "collaboratively" with Lurie and Howie but enough was enough. Furthermore, the relationship between Wentz and Doug had deteriorated to the point where they were no longer having productive conversations. Doug was ready to move on without him but Lurie said no. Sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time2rock Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 16 hours ago, Hawkeye said: Good read on Yahoo Sports that takes a deeper dive. https://sports.yahoo.com/doug-pederson-was-toast-of-philly-eagles-3-seasons-ago-now-hes-fired-how-did-it-end-so-quickly-183447392.html It's worth clicking the link but fundamentally it says Lurie was micromanaging Doug - overruling Doug's decisions on staff and quarterback play. Doug had been a good soldier since the beginning and had worked "collaboratively" with Lurie and Howie but enough was enough. Furthermore, the relationship between Wentz and Doug had deteriorated to the point where they were no longer having productive conversations. Doug was ready to move on without him but Lurie said no. "Collaboratively” ... meaning, he did what he was told to do. I honestly can’t blame him for wanting out. Have to wonder if they felt like Doug was more a "HC in training" when they hired him since he had such little (relatively speaking) NFL coaching experience. Perhaps they settled on him after missing out on more polished candidates. It had been mentioned he was 5th or 6th option. Hard not to believe that. I just hope this isn't a trend that will continue with whoever we hire next. Let the new guy pick his staff then sink of swim with them. If you're hiring people you can trust to do their jobs effectively, then you are not hiring the right people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike030270 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 hours ago, NOTW said: Meanwhile in Jacksonville, they've hired a new HC before a GM and Urban Meyer will help select the new GM. Owner said he's going to basically be the GM so no surprise really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Mike030270 said: Owner said he's going to basically be the GM so no surprise really What a train wreck that will be and it will be hilarious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 10 hours ago, eglz1 said: It might depend on what they think of Hurts. Do you think they'll keep both going into the regular season? At this point I really don't know. I thought they'd trade Wentz but now I'm not so sure. I think if Doug was still HC then they'd have to go one or the other but with a new HC I guess there's an chance they go in to the regular season with both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyEaglez Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 13 hours ago, Hawkeye said: Good read on Yahoo Sports that takes a deeper dive. https://sports.yahoo.com/doug-pederson-was-toast-of-philly-eagles-3-seasons-ago-now-hes-fired-how-did-it-end-so-quickly-183447392.html It's worth clicking the link but fundamentally it says Lurie was micromanaging Doug - overruling Doug's decisions on staff and quarterback play. Doug had been a good soldier since the beginning and had worked "collaboratively" with Lurie and Howie but enough was enough. Furthermore, the relationship between Wentz and Doug had deteriorated to the point where they were no longer having productive conversations. Doug was ready to move on without him but Lurie said no. So basically Chip Kelly snapped after two years and it took Doug four. It feels like this team will be changing coaches more frequently as long as Howie is still in play. We have heard stories going back to the Banner days of how people in the Eagles FO were back stabbing one another to rise the ladder of management. Howie might be the only guy who really has empowered Lurie to do more than just pay the checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: At this point I really don't know. I thought they'd trade Wentz but now I'm not so sure. I think if Doug was still HC then they'd have to go one or the other but with a new HC I guess there's an chance they go in to the regular season with both? I never understood these concepts. Lurie invested alot of money into Wentz and made a long term commitment. If Doug couldn't or wouldn't figure it out, he had to go. Hurts is the backup. That is why I think they will both be back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortimer Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 1 hour ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said: I never understood these concepts. Lurie invested alot of money into Wentz and made a long term commitment. If Doug couldn't or wouldn't figure it out, he had to go. Hurts is the backup. That is why I think they will both be back. People say "til death do us part" on their wedding day, but get divorced when things don't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Mortimer said: People say "til death do us part" on their wedding day, but get divorced when things don't work out. I guess you are right. They divorced Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devaster Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 3 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said: I never understood these concepts. Lurie invested alot of money into Wentz and made a long term commitment. If Doug couldn't or wouldn't figure it out, he had to go. Hurts is the backup. That is why I think they will both be back. Teams invest a lot of money into all sorts of players. Sometimes it takes a change of scenery and new coaching staff for them to recover their level of play. Currently, Wentz is a prime trade candidate because he is still valuable. Wentz can be viewed as damaged goods in Philly, but needing a change of scenery to revive his career. Other teams will be willing to do that provided they have the cap space to take on his contract. I think a number of teams would be interested in trading for Wentz if the Eagles decided to go that route. Hurts isn't a long-term solution either. He never looked the part in college. I'm not sure what the team will do, but it would be nice if Wentz could stay and they could get him back to playing at his MVP-candidate level. Won't happen with Howie continuing to manage the front office though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 hours ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said: Lurie invested alot of money into Wentz and made a long term commitment. If Doug couldn't or wouldn't figure it out, he had to go. Hurts is the backup. That is why I think they will both be back. Because 1) if Doug was back then I had zero confidence that Carson was going to turn it around (my confidence is still very low) and 2) I just couldn't see how Doug could go back to Carson and essentially bench Hurts. Hurts just wasn't anywhere near as bad as Carson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: Because 1) if Doug was back then I had zero confidence that Carson was going to turn it around (my confidence is still very low) and 2) I just couldn't see how Doug could go back to Carson and essentially bench Hurts. Hurts just wasn't anywhere near as bad as Carson. Not going to debate this one at length, but Hurts was no better (or worse) than Wentz. The eye test is pure opinion. The unarguable facts are that he didn't win either, he fumbled alot, and he missed on alot of passes. Unless they get the bobbywizdum boatload of great picks, the Eagles are going to voluntarily split with Carson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 A much more in-depth piece today in the Inquirer (McLane). https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/carson-wentz-eagles-regression-doug-pederson-press-taylor-howie-roseman-20210116.html Another one you should click on but the essence is Wentz was treated, and subsequently acted, like the golden child. He has also been resistant to coaching since Reich and DiFillipo left, despite his ongoing issues with mechanics, creating friction with Doug but seemingly intimidating Press (and remember, Doug wanted Press to be OC). He disagreed with Groh last year on game planning. Wentz wanted to play to his strengths while Groh wanted to game plan against specific teams and defenses. Doug wanted to keep Groh but the front office insisted he be fired. Doug is also described at having issues communicating internally (the Sudfeld thing vs. Washington being the most recent example - nobody knew what or why he was doing that). Wentz is described as dedicated and tireless but he also tends to blame others for his mistakes and nobody holds him accountable, including Jeff and Howie. For all the trade/cut talk, the reality is the Eagles simply have to make it work for another year at least because of his contract so both Wentz and Hurts will be back next year. It’s a complex story and I only scratched the surface so please click, read and share your thoughts. Bottom line is the Eagles organization and all it’s key players - Lurie, Howie, Doug and Wentz - come off as dysfunctional and organizationally deficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 34 minutes ago, E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles said: Unless they get the bobbywizdum boatload of great picks, the Eagles are going to voluntarily split with Carson. There is zero way in my mind, unless they get a boatload of picks, that Wentz goes anywhere this off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliEagle Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, Hawkeye said: A much more in-depth piece today in the Inquirer (McLane). https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/carson-wentz-eagles-regression-doug-pederson-press-taylor-howie-roseman-20210116.html Another one you should click on but the essence is Wentz was treated, and subsequently acted, like the golden child. He has also been resistant to coaching since Reich and DiFillipo left, despite his ongoing issues with mechanics, creating friction with Doug but seemingly intimidating Press (and remember, Doug wanted Press to be OC). He disagreed with Groh last year on game planning. Wentz wanted to play to his strengths while Groh wanted to game plan against specific teams and defenses. Doug wanted to keep Groh but the front office insisted he be fired. Doug is also described at having issues communicating internally (the Sudfeld thing vs. Washington being the most recent example - nobody knew what or why he was doing that). Wentz is described as dedicated and tireless but he also tends to blame others for his mistakes and nobody holds him accountable, including Jeff and Howie. For all the trade/cut talk, the reality is the Eagles simply have to make it work for another year at least because of his contract so both Wentz and Hurts will be back next year. It’s a complex story and I only scratched the surface so please click, read and share your thoughts. Bottom line is the Eagles organization and all it’s key players - Lurie, Howie, Doug and Wentz - come off as dysfunctional and organizationally deficient. If this is true and Wentz isn't willing to take to coaching, they need to move him before next season. You can't have a guy like that at a leadership position on the team. Other players see that and it affects the locker room. Plus, odds are the regression will continue and his value lessens even more. I think Wentz is outwardly a nice guy, but I think he has the same ego traits that Jeff George had that caused him to fail. Wentz is 28. He shouldn't need someone to motivate him at this point or someone to goad him into taking coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, CaliEagle said: If this is true and Wentz isn't willing to take to coaching, they need to move him before next season. You can't have a guy like that at a leadership position on the team. Other players see that and it affects the locker room. Plus, odds are the regression will continue and his value lessens even more. I think Wentz is outwardly a nice guy, but I think he has the same ego traits that Jeff George had that caused him to fail. Wentz is 28. He shouldn't need someone to motivate him at this point or someone to goad him into taking coaching. I agree with this completely but thanks to Howie, Wentz is essentially guaranteed to be on the roster. If they cut or trade him they will have anywhere from $26 - $60 million in dead money which is crushing in a year when the cap will be down $20 million or so. They have painted themselves into a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK_EaglesFan89 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, Hawkeye said: I agree with this completely but thanks to Howie, Wentz is essentially guaranteed to be on the roster. If they cut or trade him they will have anywhere from $26 - $60 million in dead money which is crushing in a year when the cap will be down $20 million or so. They have painted themselves into a corner. I mean look i don't think Howie should be killed for that deal. He had to strike at some point and there's no way he could have known that Wentz was going to be as bad this year as he was. Howie knew he had to strike before other QBs got their contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 24 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said: I mean look i don't think Howie should be killed for that deal. He had to strike at some point and there's no way he could have known that Wentz was going to be as bad this year as he was. Howie knew he had to strike before other QBs got their contracts. That’s a very fair point and hindsight is 20/20. Still, when you roll it into all the other roster decisions it looks like another bad move. Best case scenario is Wentz returns to form under a new system and Hurts gets time to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwestbrook36 Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Hawkeye said: That’s a very fair point and hindsight is 20/20. Still, when you roll it into all the other roster decisions it looks like another bad move. Best case scenario is Wentz returns to form under a new system and Hurts gets time to develop. That's the scenario that we should all hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
time2rock Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Doug speaking to Seattle about their open OC spot. https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/16/doug-pederson-has-spoken-to-seahawks-about-oc-opening/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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