October 12, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, Procus said: Trouble with that quote is timing. These numbers are a moving target, especially when it's becoming clear that protection from the vaccine wanes several months after the last dose administered. At this rate, in order to be protected, people will need to be vaccinated every 3 - 4 months. Seems problematic. At this rate, all these tears from you about how oppressed you poor antivaxers are will drive you to pay extra for flood insurance.
October 12, 20215 yr 7 hours ago, vikas83 said: I would say that a testing option isn't legally required, however. I find it hysterical that the people screaming that the government can't force them to get the vaccine (which is accurate) are also screaming that the government has to tell private companies that they can't mandate the vaccine (which is false). Freedom is freedom. You don't get to pick and choose. And to answer the army of incoming imbeciles -- if enough workers refuse and businesses get hurt (e.g., Southwest cancelling flights), they will see the impact to profits and have to reassess their decisions. This is how free markets work. There are already vaccination mandates in order for children to attend public schools. I don't see any meaningful difference between a school and a place of work.
October 12, 20215 yr 11 minutes ago, PoconoDon said: There are already vaccination mandates in order for children to attend public schools. I don't see any meaningful difference between a school and a place of work. I think they've been successfully challenged in many places, which is why you see some localized outbreaks of the measles and other diseases we've not seen for a generation or two. There was a time when vaccinations were not a controversial thing. Now people see it as some kind of attack on "liberty" because they've decided in the absence of a "real" uniting enemy to bind us together, "liberals" or whatever boogeyman are the real enemy.
October 12, 20215 yr 3 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: Boosters may be needed at 8+ mos. But it's not problematic for those of us unafraid of a needle. Some are apparently more comfortable with needles than others. Junkies aren't as relatable to everyone.
October 12, 20215 yr 2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: In the article I posted? Care to cite where these reservations are? Serious cases in Israel are at about 7 per 100k at this moment. US doesn't report "serious cases" separately, but hospitalizations are at 19 per 100k (and that's down off the high significantly) Yet all we heard was how Delta was killing Israel, while their hospitalization rates were well below ours throughout the Delta wave. Wonder what the difference was. Maybe Israel was secretly treating their population with ivermectin? Meant the thread in general. Some of the "treated" seem overly concerned about their "safety".
October 12, 20215 yr 3 hours ago, Procus said: When companies are driven to the brink of bankruptcy as a result of labor problems brought on by draconian government regulation, that's not the "free" market at work. Shockingly, you missed the part where I stated unequivocally that I was against Biden’s OSHA mandate. A company mandating it, and then losing business, is exactly a free market.
October 12, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, PoconoDon said: There are already vaccination mandates in order for children to attend public schools. I don't see any meaningful difference between a school and a place of work. Schools are owned and run by the government. Southwest Airlines is owned by its shareholders and run by private management.
October 12, 20215 yr my covid denying former college classmate went from... among others that were removed... to this... then to this....
October 12, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, The_Omega said: What a narcissistic egomaniac, can you imagine how fast the country would be destroyed if someone like that was elected as president?
October 12, 20215 yr 3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: What a narcissistic egomaniac, can you imagine how fast the country would be destroyed if someone like that was elected as president? The difference with Trump is he paid thousands of dollars for paintings of himself then claimed depreciation to cheat on his taxes
October 12, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: The difference with Trump is he paid thousands of dollars for paintings of himself then claimed depreciation to cheat on his taxes 😂 The current one has done less?
October 12, 20215 yr 17 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: my covid denying former college classmate went from... among others that were removed... to this... then to this.... To what exactly?
October 12, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: The difference with Trump is he paid thousands of dollars for paintings of himself then claimed depreciation to cheat on his taxes
October 12, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, lynched1 said: Meant the thread in general. Some of the "treated" seem overly concerned about their "safety". I’m only concerned about my unvaccinated 10 yr old, but thx for your concern
October 12, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, lynched1 said: Meant the thread in general. Some of the "treated" seem overly concerned about their "safety". I’m more concerned about my 8 year old as was just noted above, but also I’m just tired of the virus dominating our lives. Look at what it’s done to the world. When people can’t get their Flat screens and Xboxes on Black Friday because they’re all on the cargo ships, maybe they’ll wake the F up. I mean, clearly death is not enough of a reason to get vaxxed, so perhaps a lack of Video games will be.
October 12, 20215 yr 3 hours ago, vikas83 said: Schools are owned and run by the government. Southwest Airlines is owned by its shareholders and run by private management. True, but if the gov't at any level (States in this instance) has the legal latitude to mandate a vaccine like MMR or Polio for entry into school, then how much more latitude is granted to the private sector for employment? A great deal more I would think. The only Constitutional protection we have against any private party that I'm aware of, is in the form of the federal law of conspiracy against rights, wherein more than one person conspire to infringe the rights of another, and that, once done, is a crime. There have been a few successfully prosecuted cases, but I don't think it applies at all in the case of a vaccine.
October 12, 20215 yr Texas governor bans Covid-19 vaccine mandates by any employer in state https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/11/politics/texas-vaccine-mandate-greg-abbott/index.html What could go wrong?
October 12, 20215 yr 9 hours ago, mr_hunt said: my covid denying former college classmate went from... among others that were removed... to this... then to this.... Thoughts and prayers.
October 12, 20215 yr Such a shame God didn't invent people who could invent a vaccine for such a disease.
October 12, 20215 yr 11 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I think they've been successfully challenged in many places, which is why you see some localized outbreaks of the measles and other diseases we've not seen for a generation or two. There was a time when vaccinations were not a controversial thing. Now people see it as some kind of attack on "liberty" because they've decided in the absence of a "real" uniting enemy to bind us together, "liberals" or whatever boogeyman are the real enemy. I think people are hesitant to get them because mRNA vaccines have never before been used in humans, no one will can say how long they last or how many booster shots you'll need. The amount of fully vaccinated people who have contracted covid and/or died from it is significant, so it's a bit different from other vaccines that more or less fully protect you from infection. It may be convenient to label anyone who doesn't want it as an "anti-vax" even if they have no issue with other vaccines that have been out longer, but it's not really all that accurate.
October 12, 20215 yr How do we label someone who pretends to be anti-vax to random strangers on the internet while actually having been vaccinated? Oh ya, desperately lonely and living a life devoid of meaning and purpose.
October 12, 20215 yr Ted Cruz & Co. Promote Nonexistent Anti-Vax Airline ‘Strike’ https://www.thedailybeast.com/ted-cruz-and-co-promote-non-existent-anti-vax-airline-strike They just can't help themselves; they have to lie. It the default position. Air Traffic Controllers are federal employees. There is no shortage. Just more likes from Cruz and company. Quote "No FAA air traffic staffing shortages have been reported since Friday. Flight delays and cancellations occurred for a few hours Friday afternoon due to widespread severe weather, military training and limited staffing in one area of the Jacksonville Air Route Traffic Control Center," the FAA said. "Some airlines continue to experience scheduling challenges due to aircraft and crews being out of place. Please contact the airlines for details about current flight schedules."
October 12, 20215 yr 41 minutes ago, Kz! said: I think people are hesitant to get them because mRNA vaccines have never before been used in humans, no one will can say how long they last or how many booster shots you'll need. The amount of fully vaccinated people who have contracted covid and/or died from it is significant, so it's a bit different from other vaccines that more or less fully protect you from infection. It may be convenient to label anyone who doesn't want it as an "anti-vax" even if they have no issue with other vaccines that have been out longer, but it's not really all that accurate. What's missing from this story is that other vaccines "more or less fully protect you" because we've achieved herd immunity for those already. It took decades for polio, chicken pox, the measles, etc. to be marginalized enough for vaccines to "more or less fully protect you". It's an impossible standard to expect the first version of a vaccine to eradicate a pandemic within six months. But that is the standard being applied for political reasons. Not to mention that there never has been a vaccine for a coronavirus - however we HAD been researching this in the wake of other coronavirus outbreaks (SARS, MERS, etc.) which is one of the reasons we were better prepared to develop a vaccine for COVID-19 than we might otherwise have been. A couple generations ago illnesses like smallpox, polio, and the measles were common. So people understood better what they were dealing with, and readily accepted imperfect vaccines understanding that the risk/reward was HEAVILY in favor of being vaccinated. Over decades, our cultural commitment to vaccines coupled with advancements in vaccine efficacy resulted in virtually eradicating these diseases. A generation later our short memory is literally killing us, as the anti-vaccine movement that began 10-15 years ago has conditioned a sizable minority to believe that vaccines were never truly needed, because smallpox/polio/etc. were not something most dealt with in living memory. All that said, it's not entirely irrational for people to be apprehensive about a new form of vaccine. However, it IS irrational for people to look at how effective v1 of these vaccines have been (and they are among the MOST EFFECTIVE ever among initially available vaccines to protect against a virus) and to take in the totality of information about side effects and decide they're better off without. We have almost a year now between early trials and broad public rollout to understand better than any vaccine prior how effective they are, what their deficiencies are, and potential side effects. COVID-19 vaccines are the most scrutinized vaccines we've ever seen, and every day they save lives. If you stop falling for the base rate fallacy, and look at case, hospitalization, and death rates among vaccinated vs. unvaccinated, there is absolutely no denying that they are by far the most effective tool we have at getting us on the road to some kind of herd immunity, if that's even possible with this virus (again, the coronavirus family has long been resistant to vaccines, when taking a step back it's absolutely amazing what has been accomplished). These vaccines should be viewed as a crowning achievement in medical history. A vindication for science. Instead they have been muddied and tarred by politically motivated FUD campaigns by charlatans who either no better and don't care, or are themselves supremely ignorant. Either way they are costing lives.
October 12, 20215 yr 5 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: All that said, it's not entirely irrational for people to be apprehensive about a new form of vaccine. 100% in agreement here. Good point.
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