18 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Fair enough. I think any sort of mandate should allow for frequent negative testing if the employee chooses to refuse vaccination like for medical or religious exemptions. 

I would say that a testing option isn't legally required, however. 

I find it hysterical that the people screaming that the government can't force them to get the vaccine (which is accurate) are also screaming that the government has to tell private companies that they can't mandate the vaccine (which is false). Freedom is freedom. You don't get to pick and choose. 

And to answer the army of incoming imbeciles -- if enough workers refuse and businesses get hurt (e.g., Southwest cancelling flights), they will see the impact to profits and have to reassess their decisions. This is how free markets work.

5 minutes ago, mikemack8 said:

Hope the kids are OK - that family 'bout to get PAAAAIIIIIDDDDDD

Rightfully so. That's just gross negligence on Walgreen's part.

4 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I would say that a testing option isn't legally required, however. 

I find it hysterical that the people screaming that the government can't force them to get the vaccine (which is accurate) are also screaming that the government has to tell private companies that they can't mandate the vaccine (which is false). Freedom is freedom. You don't get to pick and choose. 

And to answer the army of incoming imbeciles -- if enough workers refuse and businesses get hurt (e.g., Southwest cancelling flights), they will see the impact to profits and have to reassess their decisions. This is how free markets work.

it's all about leverage. 

Just now, vikas83 said:

I would say that a testing option isn't legally required, however. 

I find it hysterical that the people screaming that the government can't force them to get the vaccine (which is accurate) are also screaming that the government has to tell private companies that they can't mandate the vaccine (which is false). Freedom is freedom. You don't get to pick and choose. 

And to answer the army of incoming imbeciles -- if enough workers refuse and businesses get hurt (e.g., Southwest cancelling flights), they will see the impact to profits and have to reassess their decisions. This is how free markets work.

Agreed. I was speaking more philosophically for what an employer should do to reasonably provide a safe and healthy workplace. But from a legal perspective, I generally view any mandate like this as more of a necessary evil, similar to anti-discrimination laws. I really wish we lived in a society that didn't have to coerce these idiots and abhorrent people with the threat of legal punishment. I wish people could just do the decent, moral thing out of their own free will. But unfortunately, when a misconception of "freedom" infringes on the rights of others, we sometimes have to resort to such extreme measures.

1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Yeah, it's all about "YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!" not actual science.

That's it.

That is the whole basis for this movement against COVID vaccines. This perception that if you take the vaccine, you're "giving in" to what someone else wants to do.

There's no rational basis. It's purely emotion-driven nonsense that most people grow out of. 

I wouldn't accept it from my teenager. I sure as hell am not buying it from somebody on the internet who claims he has lots of buddies prescribing Ivermectin to congress. 

That's the general issue but in the US it gets compounded with the entire "hate the Libs" crap which is why there is so much more of it in the US than in other places.

33 minutes ago, Dawkins 20 said:

Not here. Most jobs are vax or you're fired. No negative testing. My apologies for conflating American/Canadian mandates, but Canada has gone off the deep end. 

Sydney has finally reopened as of today after four straight months of full on lockdown.  Progress...

Move over virgin mRNA vaccines. India is about to release a Chad DNA vaccine:

Quote

India will soon roll out a DNA vaccine for the coronavirus. It’s the latest example of how COVID-19 is transforming vaccines.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2021-10-11/india-will-soon-roll-out-dna-vaccine-coronavirus-it-s-latest-example-how-covid-19

5 minutes ago, Kz! said:

Move over virgin mRNA vaccines. India is about to release a Chad DNA vaccine:

https://www.pri.org/stories/2021-10-11/india-will-soon-roll-out-dna-vaccine-coronavirus-it-s-latest-example-how-covid-19

You've definitely been vaccinated. Such a weirdo.

4 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You've definitely been vaccinated. Such a weirdo.

He was probably vaccinated the day after he bought the Hanson tickets.  Did not want to miss that once in a lifetime experience.

2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

He never said that; the quote is bogus.

Phrases like "un-American" were not uttered by founding fathers, not appearing in print until after Rush's death.

"Undercover" was not used at all until the mid-1800s, and didn't come to be defined in the modern sense until the mid-1900s. 

But it’s in italics and on a black background, and it was on twatter so it had to be true 😂 

2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Yeah, it's all about "YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!" not actual science.

That's it.

That is the whole basis for this movement against COVID vaccines. This perception that if you take the vaccine, you're "giving in" to what someone else wants to do.

There's no rational basis. It's purely emotion-driven nonsense that most people grow out of. 

I wouldn't accept it from my teenager. I sure as hell am not buying it from somebody on the internet who claims he has lots of buddies prescribing Ivermectin to congress. 

Funny that my kids, like many young kids, were asking when they can get vaccinated because they want to help beat this. They know it’s the right thing to do to "love thy neighbor.”  They aren’t being forced or indoctrinated as some would say, they just see it as a no brainer.   Yet grown adults feel the need to fight over it and act like someone is coming to take their toys and send them to bed without dessert.  Grow the F up, people. 

3 hours ago, Kz! said:

Very sad story out of Denver:

Just goes to show you that, while the vast majority won't suffer from extreme side effects from the vaccine, there are risks involved. 

I love the lawyer shaking his head in disgust, just as he sees dollar signs dancing through his head.  Guys doctors said it most likely is from the shot?>  Really???  where is the doctor?  would seem to me he'd want to speak up?

How's those shots holding up? 

5 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

How's those shots holding up? 

Pretty well: Unvaxxed 10% of Israelis Are 73% of Serious Cases, 65% of Deaths

 

1 minute ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Pretty well: Unvaxxed 10% of Israelis Are 73% of Serious Cases, 65% of Deaths

 

Good to hear. Thread reads as if there might be some reservations about the treatments ability to protect them.

16 minutes ago, lynched1 said:

Good to hear. Thread reads as if there might be some reservations about the treatments ability to protect them.

I've got three in me, and I can still walk.  Things are looking up.

42 minutes ago, barho said:

I love the lawyer shaking his head in disgust, just as he sees dollar signs dancing through his head.  Guys doctors said it most likely is from the shot?>  Really???  where is the doctor?  would seem to me he'd want to speak up?

He lost all credibility when he called it "the jab.” That just proves he’s an uneducated right wing qAhack lawyer.  He’s right there with the ambulance chasers.  

10 minutes ago, barho said:

I've got three in me, and I can still walk.  Things are looking up.

Good to see. How's it holding up against the unvaccinated? Seems to be apprehesion amongst a few in that regard.

5 hours ago, vikas83 said:

And to answer the army of incoming imbeciles -- if enough workers refuse and businesses get hurt (e.g., Southwest cancelling flights), they will see the impact to profits and have to reassess their decisions. This is how free markets work.

When companies are driven to the brink of bankruptcy as a result of labor problems brought on by draconian government regulation, that's not the "free" market at work.

1 hour ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Pretty well: Unvaxxed 10% of Israelis Are 73% of Serious Cases, 65% of Deaths

Trouble with that quote is timing.  These numbers are a moving target, especially when it's becoming clear that protection from the vaccine wanes several months after the last dose administered.  At this rate, in order to be protected, people will need to be vaccinated every 3 - 4 months.  Seems problematic.

Just now, Procus said:

Trouble with that quote is timing.  These numbers are a moving target, especially when it's becoming clear that protection from the vaccine wanes several months after the last dose administered.  At this rate, in order to be protected, people will need to be vaccinated every 3 - 4 months.  Seems problematic.

Boosters may be needed at 8+ mos. 

But it's not problematic for those of us unafraid of a needle. 

16 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Boosters may be needed at 8+ mos. 

But it's not problematic for those of us unafraid of a needle. 

Not sure where you got the 8+ number from, but I have read studies which conclude that protection declines significantly after 2 mos.  I don't believe either you or I really know.

Not to do with on going discussion, but wife was to get her booster shot from local pharmacy.  Got there and was told that pharmacy section closed early because no pharmacist was available.  Cashier told us this has become a problem as they have to hire out of state pharmacist and there was a scheduling problem.  Have no idea how much truth is behind statement.  More shortages in medical professions ?

1 hour ago, lynched1 said:

Good to hear. Thread reads as if there might be some reservations about the treatments ability to protect them.

In the article I posted? Care to cite where these reservations are?

Serious cases in Israel are at about 7 per 100k at this moment. US doesn't report "serious cases" separately, but hospitalizations are at 19 per 100k (and that's down off the high significantly)

Yet all we heard was how Delta was killing Israel, while their hospitalization rates were well below ours throughout the Delta wave.

Wonder what the difference was. Maybe Israel was secretly treating their population with ivermectin?

1 hour ago, Procus said:

Not sure where you got the 8+ number from, but I have read studies which conclude that protection declines significantly after 2 mos.  I don't believe either you or I really know.

Opinions of Twatter randos are not studies.

the cdc recommends boosters at 6 months for 65+ And at risk population.  So it’s safe to reason that there’s a good amount of protection up to at least 6 months.  Yale did a study that showed Moderna was effective at preventing hospitalization for at least 4 months, saying it was 93% effective for at least 4 months and dropped to 77% after that, so there’s a decent level of protection for at least that long, it’s not like it goes from 93% to zero after 4-6 months. 
 

 

6 minutes ago, Procus said:

Not sure where you got the 8+ number from, but I have ready studies which conclude that protection declines significantly after 2 mos.  I don't believe either you or I really know.

Protection against infection drops off after 4 mos or so, but protection against severe infection and hospitalization is still good for a few more. 

Still far better numbers than Ivermectin in clean environments. The only places it's shown any efficacy is notoriously dirty environments where parasites may be a complicating factor to Covid infections.