October 12, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, Kz! said: 100% in agreement here. Good point. this is why you are stupid. and a bad troll. if only there was a vaccine against confirmation bias. but who am I kidding, you wouldn't take it anyway.
October 12, 20215 yr 7 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: What's missing from this story is that other vaccines "more or less fully protect you" because we've achieved herd immunity for those already. It took decades for polio, chicken pox, the measles, etc. to be marginalized enough for vaccines to "more or less fully protect you". It's an impossible standard to expect the first version of a vaccine to eradicate a pandemic within six months. But that is the standard being applied for political reasons. Not to mention that there never has been a vaccine for a coronavirus - however we HAD been researching this in the wake of other coronavirus outbreaks (SARS, MERS, etc.) which is one of the reasons we were better prepared to develop a vaccine for COVID-19 than we might otherwise have been. A couple generations ago illnesses like smallpox, polio, and the measles were common. So people understood better what they were dealing with, and readily accepted imperfect vaccines understanding that the risk/reward was HEAVILY in favor of being vaccinated. Over decades, our cultural commitment to vaccines coupled with advancements in vaccine efficacy resulted in virtually eradicating these diseases. A generation later our short memory is literally killing us, as the anti-vaccine movement that began 10-15 years ago has conditioned a sizable minority to believe that vaccines were never truly needed, because smallpox/polio/etc. were not something most dealt with in living memory. All that said, it's not entirely irrational for people to be apprehensive about a new form of vaccine. However, it IS irrational for people to look at how effective v1 of these vaccines have been (and they are among the MOST EFFECTIVE ever among initially available vaccines to protect against a virus) and to take in the totality of information about side effects and decide they're better off without. We have almost a year now between early trials and broad public rollout to understand better than any vaccine prior how effective they are, what their deficiencies are, and potential side effects. COVID-19 vaccines are the most scrutinized vaccines we've ever seen, and every day they save lives. If you stop falling for the base rate fallacy, and look at case, hospitalization, and death rates among vaccinated vs. unvaccinated, there is absolutely no denying that they are by far the most effective tool we have at getting us on the road to some kind of herd immunity, if that's even possible with this virus (again, the coronavirus family has long been resistant to vaccines, when taking a step back it's absolutely amazing what has been accomplished). These vaccines should be viewed as a crowning achievement in medical history. A vindication for science. Instead they have been muddied and tarred by politically motivated FUD campaigns by charlatans who either no better and don't care, or are themselves supremely ignorant. Either way they are costing lives. Hence the reason that things like Measles keep recurring in the US, is thanks EXCLUSIVELY to unvaxxed MORONS going to foreign countries that have not beaten the disease, and they bring it back and form outbreak hotspots with their unvaxxed pals. And any poor unfortunate susceptible they run into.
October 12, 20215 yr I thought the GOP was against corporate regulations. I thought wrong. The Gov has no right to tell business how to operate. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/10/11/texas-greg-abbott-covid-19-vaccine-mandate/ Texas Gov. Greg Abbott bans any COVID-19 vaccine mandates — including for private employers
October 12, 20215 yr 13 minutes ago, Kz! said: I'm here for this. They had the Southwest guy (not sure if was CEO, or an operations mgr.) on GMA this morning. He claimed they had too many planes in Florida in Orlando where there was a 7 hr. ground stop which put them behind. He was trying to blame scheduling, so I would also believe (though not reported) that there is also a staffing issue. While I have no problem with these pilots all calling off at the same time due a mandate approaching-it's their time. The company should be doing a better job of maintaining their schedule. What doesn't make sense to me is by NOT taking a vaccine, it will affect others, and the way of life as we once knew it will be gone. All because of a vaccine. One that is safe and effective. It's truly unbelievable! Good luck planning a trip with SW only to be cancelled. Good luck when we having to wait for medical care, or at best receiving less than a standard of care. These people would sooner lose their jobs, and just leave this virus out there to spread and mutate a few more hundred times around the globe. Glad I'll be dead before that happens. Stupid people.
October 12, 20215 yr 10 hours ago, PoconoDon said: True, but if the gov't at any level (States in this instance) has the legal latitude to mandate a vaccine like MMR or Polio for entry into school, then how much more latitude is granted to the private sector for employment? A great deal more I would think. The only Constitutional protection we have against any private party that I'm aware of, is in the form of the federal law of conspiracy against rights, wherein more than one person conspire to infringe the rights of another, and that, once done, is a crime. There have been a few successfully prosecuted cases, but I don't think it applies at all in the case of a vaccine. I agree 100% that a private employer can mandate. I don't agree that the government can tell a private company it has to mandate vaccines.
October 12, 20215 yr I think the biggest crime here is the lack of dissemination of information regarding early treatment. Nip this in the bud early on when symptoms first appear, and you'll cut the death and hospitalization rate dramatically. Most of the people here know what to do if they get infected - in no small part because they've taken a deep interest in this. But you poll the public at large, and there is a LOT of ignorance regarding treatment protocol and options. Too many people get hospitalized and die because they waited too long to get treated early on.
October 12, 20215 yr 3 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: How do we label someone who pretends to be anti-vax to random strangers on the internet while actually having been vaccinated? Oh ya, desperately lonely and living a life devoid of meaning and purpose. How would you label yourself?
October 12, 20215 yr 10 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I agree 100% that a private employer can mandate. I don't agree that the government can tell a private company it has to mandate vaccines. On its face, I agree. Perhaps there is an applicable health and safety exception which would permit it as a regulatory measure. Time will tell if such a regulation is permitted.
October 12, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, mr_hunt said: Funny and true. The people on the other extreme of this don't get mocked and blamed enough though. Yeah, people need to get shots, but forcing medical professionals to get the shot or lose their job in the middle of this crisis is asinine. As is anything else that damages our economy even further when it's already on the edge like what we are seeing with pilots. Our supply chains are stressed, businesses can't find people to fill jobs as it is (like truck drivers to help at the ports), so dumping gas on the fire and saying let's watch this burn is going to screw us all. We spinning quickly towards a recession and nobody on either extreme is using common sense.
October 12, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, Procus said: I think the biggest crime here is the lack of dissemination of information regarding early treatment. Nip this in the bud early on when symptoms first appear, and you'll cut the death and hospitalization rate dramatically. Most of the people here know what to do if they get infected - in no small part because they've taken a deep interest in this. But you poll the public at large, and there is a LOT of ignorance regarding treatment protocol and options. Too many people get hospitalized and die because they waited too long to get treated early on. Nobody is withholding information. We've known about mAbs for over a year. There's a new oral treatment from Merck under consideration for an EUA. We know how helpful dexamethasone can be to modulate the immune response. All that being said, none of these options are mutually excusive, and the most prudent action one can take immediately to reduce the risk of hospitalization and death is to get vaccinated now. Refusing vaccination and then waiting around for treatment options to save you is incredibly myopic when you could've been vaccinated AND then still employed these treatment options should you experience a breakthrough infection. 3 minutes ago, Procus said: How would you label yourself? Frustrated parent of two unvaccinated kids.
October 12, 20215 yr 7 minutes ago, Procus said: I think the biggest crime here is the lack of dissemination of information regarding early treatment. Nip this in the bud early on when symptoms first appear, and you'll cut the death and hospitalization rate dramatically. Most of the people here know what to do if they get infected - in no small part because they've taken a deep interest in this. But you poll the public at large, and there is a LOT of ignorance regarding treatment protocol and options. Too many people get hospitalized and die because they waited too long to get treated early on. If you're asking Americans to self diagnose and take care of their own health at the outset of symptoms, especially for a disease that is often asymptomatic in the first couple days, you're going to have a bad time.
October 12, 20215 yr 4 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: Funny and true. The people on the other extreme of this don't get mocked and blamed enough though. Yeah, people need to get shots, but forcing medical professionals to get the shot or lose their job in the middle of this crisis is asinine. As is anything else that damages our economy even further when it's already on the edge like what we are seeing with pilots. Our supply chains are stressed, businesses can't find people to fill jobs as it is (like truck drivers to help at the ports), so dumping gas on the fire and saying let's watch this burn is going to screw us all. We spinning quickly towards a recession and nobody on either extreme is using common sense. You can't transition out of a pandemic economy until you end the pandemic. I'm not sure why this point keeps getting overlooked. We tried the carrot, and it didn't work, so now we're trying the stick. But make no mistake, the end-goal is economic recovery. Whether the short-term pain is worth the long-term gain remains to be seen, but letting a quarter of your population continue to be a burden on the economy clearly wasn't working so I'm not sure how else you think we can pull ourselves out of this mess.
October 12, 20215 yr 12 minutes ago, Procus said: I think the biggest crime here is the lack of dissemination of information regarding early treatment. Nip this in the bud early on when symptoms first appear, and you'll cut the death and hospitalization rate dramatically. Most of the people here know what to do if they get infected - in no small part because they've taken a deep interest in this. But you poll the public at large, and there is a LOT of ignorance regarding treatment protocol and options. Too many people get hospitalized and die because they waited too long to get treated early on. What if I were to tell you there's something even more effective at preventing hospitalization, that you can give even before you're exposed?
October 12, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: You can't transition out of a pandemic economy until you end the pandemic. I'm not sure why this point keeps getting overlooked. We tried the carrot, and it didn't work, so now we're trying the stick. But make no mistake, the end-goal is economic recovery. Whether the short-term pain is worth the long-term gain remains to be seen, but letting a quarter of your population continue to be a burden on the economy clearly wasn't working so I'm not sure how else you think we can pull ourselves out of this mess. I hear what you are saying, but if the economy goes down, which it will, we aren't going to recover anytime soon. Covid and the variants aren't going away and you can't just flip a switch and say it's over bring the jobs and economy back. We suffer though people getting sick while working on other treatments like the pills vs throwing people out of jobs and heading towards economic peril. We have made it a year and a half we can suffer though another year or so of Covid. There has to be middle ground and common sense. Is it necessary to throw doctors and nurses out of work when we already don't have enough? Are pilots without a vax really infecting their passengers to take this step because I haven't heard anything. We already don't have enough truck drivers to clear the ports and a ton of companies are going to be hurt this holiday season. Things aren't great, but we don't have to add economic hardship on top of things because even if we do we are still going to be suffering through the Covid issue. Keeping food on the table and a roof over people's heads is just as important.
October 12, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, Kz! said: I'm here for this. I wonder if those same pilots were there To fight the tyrannical government that gave them the $25billion Covid relief?
October 12, 20215 yr 9 minutes ago, Diehardfan said: I hear what you are saying, but if the economy goes down, which it will, we aren't going to recover anytime soon. Covid and the variants aren't going away and you can't just flip a switch and say it's over bring the jobs and economy back. We suffer though people getting sick while working on other treatments like the pills vs throwing people out of jobs and heading towards economic peril. We have made it a year and a half we can suffer though another year or so of Covid. There has to be middle ground and common sense. Is it necessary to throw doctors and nurses out of work when we already don't have enough? Yes, absolutely, 100% without a doubt. This shouldn't even be a question. These are people charged with the care of others, and any patient that is under their care should not be at risk due to their gross negligence. It's clearly medical malpractice for a unvaxxed doctor or nurse to infect a patient with a potentially deadly disease, why is this even a debate? Have you considered the reason why we don't have enough nurses and doctors in the first place? Could it be because they've been worked to the bone dealing with all these unvaxxed idiots flooding in on a daily basis for the past 19 months? So yea, canning the 1-2% of them that are in a cult is a no-brainer if it means helping to reduce the strain and stress on the rest of the 98-99% that clearly understand the most simplest of choices when it comes to the very field they are required to be knowledgeable about. Quote Are pilots without a vax really infecting their passengers to take this step because I haven't heard anything. We already don't have enough truck drivers to clear the ports and a ton of companies are going to be hurt this holiday season. Things aren't great, but we don't have to add economic hardship on top of things because even if we do we are still going to be suffering through the Covid issue. Keeping food on the table and a roof over people's heads is just as important. No, probably not a risk to passengers, maybe some of the crew but that's still less likely than a healthcare setting as I mentioned above. But even crew and co-pilots should expect their employers to provide a safe and healthy workplace, so this is no different than any employer making sure the air quality of a building is up to par, toilets are functional, cafeterias have passed health inspections, etc.
October 12, 20215 yr 41 minutes ago, Procus said: I think the biggest crime here is the lack of dissemination of information regarding early treatment. Nip this in the bud early on when symptoms first appear, and you'll cut the death and hospitalization rate dramatically. Most of the people here know what to do if they get infected - in no small part because they've taken a deep interest in this. But you poll the public at large, and there is a LOT of ignorance regarding treatment protocol and options. Too many people get hospitalized and die because they waited too long to get treated early on. You’re expecting the science deniers to suddenly rely on the science of medicine to save them? They all think it’s a fake virus, it’s just the flu, 99% survival rate, etc. these people won’t go get any treatment until it’s way too late.
October 12, 20215 yr 14 minutes ago, DBW said: You’re expecting the science deniers to suddenly rely on the science of medicine to save them? They all think it’s a fake virus, it’s just the flu, 99% survival rate, etc. these people won’t go get any treatment until it’s way too late. Um, this is true except for it understates the survival rate.
October 12, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, Diehardfan said: Funny and true. The people on the other extreme of this don't get mocked and blamed enough though. Yeah, people need to get shots, but forcing medical professionals to get the shot or lose their job in the middle of this crisis is asinine. As is anything else that damages our economy even further when it's already on the edge like what we are seeing with pilots. Our supply chains are stressed, businesses can't find people to fill jobs as it is (like truck drivers to help at the ports), so dumping gas on the fire and saying let's watch this burn is going to screw us all. We spinning quickly towards a recession and nobody on either extreme is using common sense. less than 1% have actually walked all said and done. and that includes support staff, not nurses.
October 12, 20215 yr 1 hour ago, mr_hunt said: she seems fun. (assuming it's a she given the "mama bear" with an autistic kid sticker.)
Create an account or sign in to comment