October 12, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: The difference with Trump is he paid thousands of dollars for paintings of himself then claimed depreciation to cheat on his taxes
October 12, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, lynched1 said: Meant the thread in general. Some of the "treated" seem overly concerned about their "safety". I’m only concerned about my unvaccinated 10 yr old, but thx for your concern
October 12, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, lynched1 said: Meant the thread in general. Some of the "treated" seem overly concerned about their "safety". I’m more concerned about my 8 year old as was just noted above, but also I’m just tired of the virus dominating our lives. Look at what it’s done to the world. When people can’t get their Flat screens and Xboxes on Black Friday because they’re all on the cargo ships, maybe they’ll wake the F up. I mean, clearly death is not enough of a reason to get vaxxed, so perhaps a lack of Video games will be.
October 12, 20214 yr 3 hours ago, vikas83 said: Schools are owned and run by the government. Southwest Airlines is owned by its shareholders and run by private management. True, but if the gov't at any level (States in this instance) has the legal latitude to mandate a vaccine like MMR or Polio for entry into school, then how much more latitude is granted to the private sector for employment? A great deal more I would think. The only Constitutional protection we have against any private party that I'm aware of, is in the form of the federal law of conspiracy against rights, wherein more than one person conspire to infringe the rights of another, and that, once done, is a crime. There have been a few successfully prosecuted cases, but I don't think it applies at all in the case of a vaccine.
October 12, 20214 yr Texas governor bans Covid-19 vaccine mandates by any employer in state https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/11/politics/texas-vaccine-mandate-greg-abbott/index.html What could go wrong?
October 12, 20214 yr 9 hours ago, mr_hunt said: my covid denying former college classmate went from... among others that were removed... to this... then to this.... Thoughts and prayers.
October 12, 20214 yr Such a shame God didn't invent people who could invent a vaccine for such a disease.
October 12, 20214 yr 11 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said: I think they've been successfully challenged in many places, which is why you see some localized outbreaks of the measles and other diseases we've not seen for a generation or two. There was a time when vaccinations were not a controversial thing. Now people see it as some kind of attack on "liberty" because they've decided in the absence of a "real" uniting enemy to bind us together, "liberals" or whatever boogeyman are the real enemy. I think people are hesitant to get them because mRNA vaccines have never before been used in humans, no one will can say how long they last or how many booster shots you'll need. The amount of fully vaccinated people who have contracted covid and/or died from it is significant, so it's a bit different from other vaccines that more or less fully protect you from infection. It may be convenient to label anyone who doesn't want it as an "anti-vax" even if they have no issue with other vaccines that have been out longer, but it's not really all that accurate.
October 12, 20214 yr How do we label someone who pretends to be anti-vax to random strangers on the internet while actually having been vaccinated? Oh ya, desperately lonely and living a life devoid of meaning and purpose.
October 12, 20214 yr Ted Cruz & Co. Promote Nonexistent Anti-Vax Airline ‘Strike’ https://www.thedailybeast.com/ted-cruz-and-co-promote-non-existent-anti-vax-airline-strike They just can't help themselves; they have to lie. It the default position. Air Traffic Controllers are federal employees. There is no shortage. Just more likes from Cruz and company. Quote "No FAA air traffic staffing shortages have been reported since Friday. Flight delays and cancellations occurred for a few hours Friday afternoon due to widespread severe weather, military training and limited staffing in one area of the Jacksonville Air Route Traffic Control Center," the FAA said. "Some airlines continue to experience scheduling challenges due to aircraft and crews being out of place. Please contact the airlines for details about current flight schedules."
October 12, 20214 yr 41 minutes ago, Kz! said: I think people are hesitant to get them because mRNA vaccines have never before been used in humans, no one will can say how long they last or how many booster shots you'll need. The amount of fully vaccinated people who have contracted covid and/or died from it is significant, so it's a bit different from other vaccines that more or less fully protect you from infection. It may be convenient to label anyone who doesn't want it as an "anti-vax" even if they have no issue with other vaccines that have been out longer, but it's not really all that accurate. What's missing from this story is that other vaccines "more or less fully protect you" because we've achieved herd immunity for those already. It took decades for polio, chicken pox, the measles, etc. to be marginalized enough for vaccines to "more or less fully protect you". It's an impossible standard to expect the first version of a vaccine to eradicate a pandemic within six months. But that is the standard being applied for political reasons. Not to mention that there never has been a vaccine for a coronavirus - however we HAD been researching this in the wake of other coronavirus outbreaks (SARS, MERS, etc.) which is one of the reasons we were better prepared to develop a vaccine for COVID-19 than we might otherwise have been. A couple generations ago illnesses like smallpox, polio, and the measles were common. So people understood better what they were dealing with, and readily accepted imperfect vaccines understanding that the risk/reward was HEAVILY in favor of being vaccinated. Over decades, our cultural commitment to vaccines coupled with advancements in vaccine efficacy resulted in virtually eradicating these diseases. A generation later our short memory is literally killing us, as the anti-vaccine movement that began 10-15 years ago has conditioned a sizable minority to believe that vaccines were never truly needed, because smallpox/polio/etc. were not something most dealt with in living memory. All that said, it's not entirely irrational for people to be apprehensive about a new form of vaccine. However, it IS irrational for people to look at how effective v1 of these vaccines have been (and they are among the MOST EFFECTIVE ever among initially available vaccines to protect against a virus) and to take in the totality of information about side effects and decide they're better off without. We have almost a year now between early trials and broad public rollout to understand better than any vaccine prior how effective they are, what their deficiencies are, and potential side effects. COVID-19 vaccines are the most scrutinized vaccines we've ever seen, and every day they save lives. If you stop falling for the base rate fallacy, and look at case, hospitalization, and death rates among vaccinated vs. unvaccinated, there is absolutely no denying that they are by far the most effective tool we have at getting us on the road to some kind of herd immunity, if that's even possible with this virus (again, the coronavirus family has long been resistant to vaccines, when taking a step back it's absolutely amazing what has been accomplished). These vaccines should be viewed as a crowning achievement in medical history. A vindication for science. Instead they have been muddied and tarred by politically motivated FUD campaigns by charlatans who either no better and don't care, or are themselves supremely ignorant. Either way they are costing lives.
October 12, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: All that said, it's not entirely irrational for people to be apprehensive about a new form of vaccine. 100% in agreement here. Good point.
October 12, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, Kz! said: 100% in agreement here. Good point. this is why you are stupid. and a bad troll. if only there was a vaccine against confirmation bias. but who am I kidding, you wouldn't take it anyway.
October 12, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said: What's missing from this story is that other vaccines "more or less fully protect you" because we've achieved herd immunity for those already. It took decades for polio, chicken pox, the measles, etc. to be marginalized enough for vaccines to "more or less fully protect you". It's an impossible standard to expect the first version of a vaccine to eradicate a pandemic within six months. But that is the standard being applied for political reasons. Not to mention that there never has been a vaccine for a coronavirus - however we HAD been researching this in the wake of other coronavirus outbreaks (SARS, MERS, etc.) which is one of the reasons we were better prepared to develop a vaccine for COVID-19 than we might otherwise have been. A couple generations ago illnesses like smallpox, polio, and the measles were common. So people understood better what they were dealing with, and readily accepted imperfect vaccines understanding that the risk/reward was HEAVILY in favor of being vaccinated. Over decades, our cultural commitment to vaccines coupled with advancements in vaccine efficacy resulted in virtually eradicating these diseases. A generation later our short memory is literally killing us, as the anti-vaccine movement that began 10-15 years ago has conditioned a sizable minority to believe that vaccines were never truly needed, because smallpox/polio/etc. were not something most dealt with in living memory. All that said, it's not entirely irrational for people to be apprehensive about a new form of vaccine. However, it IS irrational for people to look at how effective v1 of these vaccines have been (and they are among the MOST EFFECTIVE ever among initially available vaccines to protect against a virus) and to take in the totality of information about side effects and decide they're better off without. We have almost a year now between early trials and broad public rollout to understand better than any vaccine prior how effective they are, what their deficiencies are, and potential side effects. COVID-19 vaccines are the most scrutinized vaccines we've ever seen, and every day they save lives. If you stop falling for the base rate fallacy, and look at case, hospitalization, and death rates among vaccinated vs. unvaccinated, there is absolutely no denying that they are by far the most effective tool we have at getting us on the road to some kind of herd immunity, if that's even possible with this virus (again, the coronavirus family has long been resistant to vaccines, when taking a step back it's absolutely amazing what has been accomplished). These vaccines should be viewed as a crowning achievement in medical history. A vindication for science. Instead they have been muddied and tarred by politically motivated FUD campaigns by charlatans who either no better and don't care, or are themselves supremely ignorant. Either way they are costing lives. Hence the reason that things like Measles keep recurring in the US, is thanks EXCLUSIVELY to unvaxxed MORONS going to foreign countries that have not beaten the disease, and they bring it back and form outbreak hotspots with their unvaxxed pals. And any poor unfortunate susceptible they run into.
October 12, 20214 yr I thought the GOP was against corporate regulations. I thought wrong. The Gov has no right to tell business how to operate. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/10/11/texas-greg-abbott-covid-19-vaccine-mandate/ Texas Gov. Greg Abbott bans any COVID-19 vaccine mandates — including for private employers
October 12, 20214 yr 13 minutes ago, Kz! said: I'm here for this. They had the Southwest guy (not sure if was CEO, or an operations mgr.) on GMA this morning. He claimed they had too many planes in Florida in Orlando where there was a 7 hr. ground stop which put them behind. He was trying to blame scheduling, so I would also believe (though not reported) that there is also a staffing issue. While I have no problem with these pilots all calling off at the same time due a mandate approaching-it's their time. The company should be doing a better job of maintaining their schedule. What doesn't make sense to me is by NOT taking a vaccine, it will affect others, and the way of life as we once knew it will be gone. All because of a vaccine. One that is safe and effective. It's truly unbelievable! Good luck planning a trip with SW only to be cancelled. Good luck when we having to wait for medical care, or at best receiving less than a standard of care. These people would sooner lose their jobs, and just leave this virus out there to spread and mutate a few more hundred times around the globe. Glad I'll be dead before that happens. Stupid people.
October 12, 20214 yr 10 hours ago, PoconoDon said: True, but if the gov't at any level (States in this instance) has the legal latitude to mandate a vaccine like MMR or Polio for entry into school, then how much more latitude is granted to the private sector for employment? A great deal more I would think. The only Constitutional protection we have against any private party that I'm aware of, is in the form of the federal law of conspiracy against rights, wherein more than one person conspire to infringe the rights of another, and that, once done, is a crime. There have been a few successfully prosecuted cases, but I don't think it applies at all in the case of a vaccine. I agree 100% that a private employer can mandate. I don't agree that the government can tell a private company it has to mandate vaccines.
October 12, 20214 yr I think the biggest crime here is the lack of dissemination of information regarding early treatment. Nip this in the bud early on when symptoms first appear, and you'll cut the death and hospitalization rate dramatically. Most of the people here know what to do if they get infected - in no small part because they've taken a deep interest in this. But you poll the public at large, and there is a LOT of ignorance regarding treatment protocol and options. Too many people get hospitalized and die because they waited too long to get treated early on.
October 12, 20214 yr 3 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: How do we label someone who pretends to be anti-vax to random strangers on the internet while actually having been vaccinated? Oh ya, desperately lonely and living a life devoid of meaning and purpose. How would you label yourself?
October 12, 20214 yr 10 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I agree 100% that a private employer can mandate. I don't agree that the government can tell a private company it has to mandate vaccines. On its face, I agree. Perhaps there is an applicable health and safety exception which would permit it as a regulatory measure. Time will tell if such a regulation is permitted.
October 12, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, mr_hunt said: Funny and true. The people on the other extreme of this don't get mocked and blamed enough though. Yeah, people need to get shots, but forcing medical professionals to get the shot or lose their job in the middle of this crisis is asinine. As is anything else that damages our economy even further when it's already on the edge like what we are seeing with pilots. Our supply chains are stressed, businesses can't find people to fill jobs as it is (like truck drivers to help at the ports), so dumping gas on the fire and saying let's watch this burn is going to screw us all. We spinning quickly towards a recession and nobody on either extreme is using common sense.
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