7 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

Why even bother to show up if you’re just going to plead the 5th to every question?

Uh…you don’t have a choice when subpoenaed.

10 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

Lmao buddy I've worked with the people who plan for this stuff. I watched them give lectures through Mass General and B&W and U Penn during the early pandemic. One of whom was Fauci himself. The F do you think you're talking to?

Which made your earlier reply insinuating that I was fabricating the existence of contingency planning even more surprising. Something about this topic makes it hard to discuss it would seem.

5 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

The lockdown policy guidance came from the top down at the federal government, and most of the states basically fell in line. There were some states that went against that guidance and were basically seen as outcasts. I don't buy the line of "we just told all the states and localities what they should do, but we weren't the ones technically enforcing those policies". And it contradicts his own personal notes on the issue: "I spoke with Bill de Blasio (Mayor – NYC) and convinced him based on what I was saying publicly and my conversation tonight to close the NYC schools (he had already decided based on what I was saying on TV)," "I had a similar call with Ann O’Leary, the [Chief of Staff] of Gov. Gavin Newsom of California," this particular entry went on. "Ann said that based on my TV appearances today and yesterday, the Governor has decided to close the schools in California as well as the bars and restaurants.". And then Fauci told a blatant lie 2 years later, claiming in a TV interview that he had nothing to do with schools closing and that he didn't recommend locking anything down. And he told that same lie to Congress in 2024.

"It wasn't until delta were that no longer became the case. If you're gonna then say he should've foresaw delta, then ok, I guess he's not a psychic."

One of the difficulties in making a successful vaccine for coronaviruses is their rapid rate of mutation. So yes, I think the top immunologist in the country should have foresaw the probability that there would be variants down the line for which the vaccine wouldn't be as effective against. I mean, the CDC Director literally came out and said that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, and do not get sick.

Yes in March 2020 as the virus was raging in NYC Fauci recommended school closures. Because of course he would.

For fall 2020 he recommended hybrid, but shifted his stance by November to recommending a return to in person schooling when it became apparent that schools weren't as big a problem.

This is what happened.

And there is zero doubt that Fauci understood that vaccine effectiveness would be challenged by mutations. But they still saved countless lives. I'm not really sure what you expected him to do there, throw his hands up and say "we might as well just let people die"?

Dude you're 100% buying into the nonsense.

5 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

I'm not playing into a talking point. I'm responding to someone trying to portray him as if he gave up a life of riches for some average public servant lifestyle.

I literally said he was handsomely compensated by public servant standards but if his goal was to get rich he could have made far more in the private sector.

And that is 100% accurate.

Rand Paul is a clown and is not owed any answers by Fauci at this stage. Fauci has been hauled before Congress multiple times and been grilled for hours. This is all pure political theater to deflect and distract.

And you're 100% being led around by it.

10 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

Where exactly did Fauci "abandon" those plans? Was it "abandoned" because of political pressure or did they make adjustments on the fly based on a relatively novel virus that killed tens of millions of people? Were those plans what Sweden followed to a highest per capita death rate in Scandinavia during the pandemic?

Now this is a good reply and good questions. I should have been more careful when saying "Fauci" as I don't know what decisions he made or allowed to be made vs. the positions he took behind the scenes. I also don't find this hearing to be fair to him on the personal level even though he was the symbolic leader under Trump and then Biden. Regarding the "why" I'm 100% convinced politics/media were largely accountable for the speed and levels of measures that were taken in the US and other places.

As for Sweden, you have it totally wrong. Sweden came out with the best statistics in terms of the key metric of "excess deaths" in Europe (depending on what month was measured as the final month Sweden and Norway sometimes flipped between #1 and #2). Also, keep in mind that for the most part all those Scandinavian countries followed the same basic path with some smaller differences. The only western style country that did better than Sweden was New Zealand. A place where they could lock down an entire Island.

3 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

Rand Paul is a clown and is not owed any answers by Fauci at this stage. Fauci has been hauled before Congress multiple times and been grilled for hours. This is all pure political theater to deflect and distract.

100% agree, Fauci shouldn't have been forced to come to yet another hearing like this. Yet another instance of Paul having something up his butt.

5 hours ago, vikas83 said:

Uh…you don’t have a choice when subpoenaed.

No I understand that legally he’s required to. But if you’re going to show up just to plead the 5th to every question, it’s just a bit of a weasel move to me.

2 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I literally said he was handsomely compensated by public servant standards but if his goal was to get rich he could have made far more in the private sector.

You are correct, my apologies for misreading your post.

3 hours ago, mr_hunt said:

Your TDS is showing. It was just the flu

6 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

Which made your earlier reply insinuating that I was fabricating the existence of contingency planning even more surprising. Something about this topic makes it hard to discuss it would seem.

I didn't insinuate that all. I stated that the idea that "Fauci abandoned the playbook" on some well established contingency planning for a COVID like pandemic is simply nonsense. And you have provided ZERO evidence to support that claim. Again Hazelton Eagle type behavior.

It's difficult to discuss because it is incredibly frustrating to listen to ignorant idiots spout nonsense in a field that I work in. People still pretend COVID was over blown, vaccines were a bust, ivermectin is a cover-up, masks don't work, early spikes in excess death were fine if later on they decreased ignoring the risk to hospital capacity etc. It's Fing exhausting to watch so much confident ignorance.

4 hours ago, Phillyterp85 said:

No I understand that legally he’s required to. But if you’re going to show up just to plead the 5th to every question, it’s just a bit of a weasel move to me.

When dealing with biased questioners looking to twist things, it's the best plan. I would have told him to do the same.

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

When dealing with biased questioners looking to twist things, it's the best plan. I would have told him to do the same.

Terrible advice! Pleading the 5th is the exact same thing as pleading guilty!!!!

This whole thing remains just stupid to a level I don't understand. Should we review the COVID response to learn from mistakes and improve our plan for the next time? Of course. Did we make mistakes? Yes, I am sure we did.

But this ridiculous witch hunt is just insane. We were dealing with a new virus that NO ONE had great information about. At that point, we needed smart, well educated people making their best guess on what would work. No chance anyone was going to be 100% right. But when looking at the performance in the USA vs. the rest of the world, we inarguably did it better than most.

We want smart, talented people in these roles. Jobs that pay a LOT less than they could get in the private sector. And conducting witch hunts like this just makes it harder to hire the next guy. Did Fauci get everything right? No - I am sure he'd be the first to admit that. Did he INTENTIONALLY lie to people for nefarious reasons? Not that I see - you could argue the downplaying of masks at first was a lie, but it was done to let hospitals stock up.

Have a robust inquiry into what went right, what went wrong, what needs to be improved, etc. But a witch hunt against a guy doing the best he could with limited information is ridiculous.

Just now, vikas83 said:

This whole thing remains just stupid to a level I don't understand. Should we review the COVID response to learn from mistakes and improve our plan for the next time? Of course. Did we make mistakes? Yes, I am sure we did.

But this ridiculous witch hunt is just insane. We were dealing with a new virus that NO ONE had great information about. At that point, we needed smart, well educated people making their best guess on what would work. No chance anyone was going to be 100% right. But when looking at the performance in the USA vs. the rest of the world, we inarguably did it better than most.

We want smart, talented people in these roles. Jobs that pay a LOT less than they could get in the private sector. And conducting witch hunts like this just makes it harder to hire the next guy. Did Fauci get everything right? No - I am sure he'd be the first to admit that. Did he INTENTIONALLY lie to people for nefarious reasons? Not that I see - you could argue the downplaying of masks at first was a lie, but it was done to let hospitals stock up.

Have a robust inquiry into what went right, what went wrong, what needs to be improved, etc. But a witch hunt against a guy doing the best he could with limited information is ridiculous.

it's lawfare 101. something the trumpers cried about under biden, but celebrate under daddy.

1 minute ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

it's lawfare 101. something the trumpers cried about under biden, but celebrate under daddy.

Like what is the actual complaint?

Mask guidelines? Those were state by state. I'm not sure how you argue wearing a mask didn't at least somewhat limit transmission.

Vaccine effectiveness? It worked, the virus mutated. I guess you can say we should have anticipated Delta, but you were much less likely to have serious complications if vaccinated.

Lockdowns? Those were the states, and yeah, CA (where I live) went way overboard. In early 2020, given the unknown, it made sense. By 2021 it was overkill. But Fauci didn't make that policy.

It's just performance theater for idiots. And we never talk about who was actually in control of policy in 2020...

8 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

This whole thing remains just stupid to a level I don't understand. Should we review the COVID response to learn from mistakes and improve our plan for the next time? Of course. Did we make mistakes? Yes, I am sure we did.

But this ridiculous witch hunt is just insane. We were dealing with a new virus that NO ONE had great information about. At that point, we needed smart, well educated people making their best guess on what would work. No chance anyone was going to be 100% right. But when looking at the performance in the USA vs. the rest of the world, we inarguably did it better than most.

We want smart, talented people in these roles. Jobs that pay a LOT less than they could get in the private sector. And conducting witch hunts like this just makes it harder to hire the next guy. Did Fauci get everything right? No - I am sure he'd be the first to admit that. Did he INTENTIONALLY lie to people for nefarious reasons? Not that I see - you could argue the downplaying of masks at first was a lie, but it was done to let hospitals stock up.

Have a robust inquiry into what went right, what went wrong, what needs to be improved, etc. But a witch hunt against a guy doing the best he could with limited information is ridiculous.

And the sidenote that needs to be added to all of that as often as possible is; as bad as it was, it was so, so close to being much worse. Tick the mortality rate up by less than 1% more, which it well could have been on any of the variants that came down the line and we're talking something we are still recovering from in 2026.

44 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Like what is the actual complaint?

Mask guidelines? Those were state by state. I'm not sure how you argue wearing a mask didn't at least somewhat limit transmission.

Vaccine effectiveness? It worked, the virus mutated. I guess you can say we should have anticipated Delta, but you were much less likely to have serious complications if vaccinated.

Lockdowns? Those were the states, and yeah, CA (where I live) went way overboard. In early 2020, given the unknown, it made sense. By 2021 it was overkill. But Fauci didn't make that policy.

It's just performance theater for idiots. And we never talk about who was actually in control of policy in 2020...

this. could things have gone better? absolutely, but let's learn from the mistakes made and remember what worked to be better prepared if there is ever another pandemic.

IMO - rand paul loses so much otherwise that i believe this is his whale that he will chase to the end.

DeSantis was right all along.

Wow! Watch Deborah Birx throw Fauci under the bus here.

If Covid happened in 2026 instead of 2020, with RFK, Jr leading the response, how many Americans die?

Just now, VanHammersly said:

If Covid happened in 2026 instead of 2020, with RFK, Jr leading the response, how many Americans die?

LOL - I was thinking about that earlier. How this witch hunt insanity chases smart people away and we end up with RFK Jr. in charge of HHS. The Kakistocracy is here.

3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said:

If Covid happened in 2026 instead of 2020, with RFK, Jr leading the response, how many Americans die?

Ha, that's scary to think about.