1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said:

lol what?

Do you understand how mRNA, tRNA, etc. work?

Do you understand the difference versus, say, the MMR vaccine?

One immediately creates antibodies (vaccine). The other changes your messenger RNA to learn how to create antibodies when faced with a virus. 

It's definitely interesting science. But it requires an expansion of the word "vaccine" from historical examples/definition.

It's not fake or therefore ineffective or (GASP!) tracking devices, if that's what you're questioning my inference with that statement. Its just not what we've historically accepted as "vaccination".

10 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

Do you understand how mRNA, tRNA, etc. work?

Do you understand the difference versus, say, the MMR vaccine?

One immediately creates antibodies (vaccine). The other changes your genetic code to learn how to create antibodies when faced with a virus. 

It's definitely interesting science. But it requires an expansion of the word "vaccine" from historical examples/definition.

It's not fake or therefore ineffective or (GASP!) tracking devices, if that's what you're questioning my inference with that statement. Its just not what we've historically accepted as "vaccination".

If I walk into your office building to give you blueprints to build a shed, have I changed the structure of your office building?

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

If I walk into your office building to give you blueprints to build a shed, have I changed the structure of your office building?

No, and I actually just edited my post to clarify. Fair call.

Check out Altimmune for a more accurate depiction of a vaccine. That's all I'm saying.

2 hours ago, IFB DOG said:

Let me guess... you're fat and therefore I must be some holier than thou health nut?

God forbid addressing the MEDICAL NEEDS regarding obesity gets flipped into "poor me, don't fat shame!" diatribe...

No. I'm 6'1 200 lbs. Not as lean as I used to be now that I'm well into my 40s, but I exercise regularly and eat reasonably well. I'm no health nut, but generally far better off than peers in my demographic.

You just went on an unprompted rant about how fatties bring Covid deaths on themselves. You ok bro? Somebody piss in your protein shake?

1 hour ago, IFB DOG said:

Do you understand how mRNA, tRNA, etc. work?

Do you understand the difference versus, say, the MMR vaccine?

One immediately creates antibodies (vaccine). The other changes your messenger RNA to learn how to create antibodies when faced with a virus. 

It's definitely interesting science. But it requires an expansion of the word "vaccine" from historical examples/definition.

It's not fake or therefore ineffective or (GASP!) tracking devices, if that's what you're questioning my inference with that statement. Its just not what we've historically accepted as "vaccination".

Not really.  More traditional vaccines inject either pieces of viral protein or dead/attenuated virus into your cells so your immune system identifies it, and builds memory defenses to it (memory cells and antibodies).  mRNA vaccine injects mRNA with instructions on how to code for a specific viral protein that your body transcribes, then your immune system identifies it and builds memory defenses to it.  It's essentially the same pathway and same end game just a slightly different way of getting there. It also doesn't "change" your messenger RNA, it just gives you mRNA to transcribe.  Your body destroys the vaccine mRNA pretty quickly after use.  

And while mRNA vaccines are newer, they're not completely novel.  They've been used in cancer vaccination trials for some time now.

2 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Not really.  More traditional vaccines inject either pieces of viral protein or dead/attenuated virus into your cells so your immune system identifies it, and builds memory cells to it.  mRNA vaccine injects mRNA with instructions on how to code for a specific viral protein that your body transcribes, then your immune system identifies it and builds.  It's essentially the same pathway and same end game just a slightly different way of getting there.

And while mRNA vaccines are newer, they're not completely novel.  They've been used in cancer vaccination trials for some time now.

Liar! It's all the fatties fault.

6 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Not really.  More traditional vaccines inject either pieces of viral protein or dead/attenuated virus into your cells so your immune system identifies it, and builds memory cells to it.  mRNA vaccine injects mRNA with instructions on how to code for a specific viral protein that your body transcribes, then your immune system identifies it and builds.  It's essentially the same pathway and same end game just a slightly different way of getting there.

And while mRNA vaccines are newer, they're not completely novel.  They've been used in cancer vaccination trials for some time now.

Is he maybe hung up on innoculation vs. vaccination? The way I always understood the difference between those terms was that the former refers to introducing a living organism to the body, while a vaccination just more broadly refers to the use of genetic material.

Good to know I can just go to the gym instead of getting the vaccine

2 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

Is he maybe referring to innoculation vs. vaccination? The way I always understood the difference between those terms was that the former refers to introducing a living organism to the body, while a vaccination just more broadly refers to the use of any genetic material.

Innoculate is more broad, introducing a pathogen to something else.  You can innoculate a person with a weakened disease ia vaccine but you can also innoculate a petri dish with a bacteria via swab.   Vaccinate is to introduce a substance (dead cell, protein, live attenuated virus, mRNA etc)  to the body with the goal to stimulate antibody and immune cell production against something.

21 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Not really.  More traditional vaccines inject either pieces of viral protein or dead/attenuated virus into your cells so your immune system identifies it, and builds memory defenses to it (memory cells and antibodies).  mRNA vaccine injects mRNA with instructions on how to code for a specific viral protein that your body transcribes, then your immune system identifies it and builds memory defenses to it.  It's essentially the same pathway and same end game just a slightly different way of getting there. It also doesn't "change" your messenger RNA, it just gives you mRNA to transcribe.  Your body destroys the vaccine mRNA pretty quickly after use.  

And while mRNA vaccines are newer, they're not completely novel.  They've been used in cancer vaccination trials for some time now.

Traditional =/= historical.

None of the three EUA vaccines grant mucosal immunity. You can still get, and spread, COVID-19. Fact.

Also, yeah, I do blame people for their health outcomes. The mom in FL that was SHOCKED and DEVASTATED when her 400lb 20-year-old son died after catching covid?? Covid was the bullet, morbid obesity was the gun. Neither one would have killed without the other, right?

Nope, because morbid obesity is actually a ticking time bomb, not just a gun.

Fund school sports, playgrounds, outside activities, county gym memberships, better meals...

We're going to outlaw dancing at weddings, but go ahead and keep the food additives and crap that half of Europe bans that our "health and safety"-minded FDA protects.

Don't go to the gym, but please hit up the drive thru at McDonalds.

6 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

Traditional =/= historical.

None of the three EUA vaccines grant mucosal immunity. You can still get, and spread, COVID-19. Fact.

When the hell did "mucosal immunity" come into the conversation?  And no, not "fact", we have no idea how well you could spread a virus once vaccinated.  They warn against it because it hasn't been studied, not because we know it happens.  But logistically infectiousness usually correlates with viral load  in the body, so it's almost impossible that immunity wouldn't at least hugely limit your ability to spread the virus.  It's not like a bacteria ala MRSA that colonizes your nasal passages or something like that.  

You're all over the place here.

  

On 3/12/2021 at 11:18 AM, we_gotta_believe said:

All this talk about covid being a long-term endemic struggle and causing issues seasonally seems to be looking less and less likely each day. Dare I say that you'll be hard pressed to see daily confirmed cases in the double digits for states like PA or MI by the end 2022.

 

As with any epidemic/pandemic, the final piece is always the developing world. We can't truly eradicate anything without a consistently robust response that includes the poorest nations. This includes educating remote populations and tribal communities that do not understand disease and are suspicious or western medicine after centuries in a postcolonial world. Even after the last reported case of smallpox was reported in the U.S. 1949, nearly 200 years after Jenner created a vaccine for it, it still took another 30 years to eradicate the disease worldwide. So, if we literally have to subsidize the public health of African nations, we need to do it in concert with global community, otherwise we'll be unable to really contain this and constantly have the virus circulating and mutating outside our front door.

18 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Good to know I can just go to the gym instead of getting the vaccine

You probably can. Do you understand percentages at all? What's your age? Unless you're over 50, you're more likely to die getting into a car accident on the way to your vaccine appointment than actually dying of covid.

15 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

Same. It really seems like something Germany of all places would nail. 

I have a friend in Germany, 60 yr old guy lives alone and not having a good time with pandemic.  We've been face timing with him throughout, he says he's going to New York to get vaccinated (also has a home there) because Germany is still on 85 (eighty Fing five) and over.

4 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

You probably can. Do you understand percentages at all? What's your age? Unless you're over 50, you're more likely to die getting into a car accident on the way to your vaccine appointment than actually dying of covid.

There are usually about 35,000 MVA deaths per year in the US.  We're over 500,000 COVID deaths currently. 

2 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

When the hell did "mucosal immunity" come into the conversation?  And no, not "fact", we have no idea how well you could spread a virus once vaccinated.  They warn against it because it hasn't been studied, not because we know it happens.  But logistically infectiousness usually correlates with viral load  in the body, so it's almost impossible that immunity wouldn't at least hugely limit your ability to spread the virus.  It's not like a bacteria ala MRSA that colonizes your nasal passages or something like that.  

You're all over the place here.

Got it. So viral load matters after the vaccine, but not people that are perfectly healthy and pop a PCR positive after the Ct is 40+?

 

I'm not the one that's all over the place. Our freaking government keeps moving the goal posts. Two weeks to prepare hospitals. 150 weeks to fully vaccinate the entire population. Now they're pushing a facking vaccination card to gather in public?????

Just now, DEagle7 said:

There are usually about 35,000 MVA deaths per year in the US.  We're over 500,000 COVID deaths currently.  You're just pulling this out of a your arse aren't you?

UNLESS YOU'RE OVER FIFTY.

 

Read, dope.

 

More MVA deaths and SUICIDE DEATHS in minors than COVID deaths.

 

F you for perpetuating this fear crap.

2 minutes ago, dawkins4prez said:

I have a friend in Germany, 60 yr old guy lives alone and not having a good time with pandemic.  We've been face timing with him throughout, he says he's going to New York to get vaccinated (also has a home there) because Germany is still on 85 (eighty Fing five) and over.

Sounds like mental health is suffering. Maybe they should encourage him to go for a walk, without a mask on.

Lmfao. Front page of CNN...

 

BE AFRAID PEOPLE! AFRAID OF YOUR NEIGHBORS, FRIENDS, FAMILY, EVERYONE. Wear your mask when you go for a walk outside!!

Yup, somebody definitely pissed in his protein shake.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-a-sedentary-lifestyle-during-covid-19-can-quickly-affect-your-health

 

Go for an F'ing walk. They closed our parks and we told our local health department to shove it. Sheriff wouldn't enforce it. Because its absolutely DUMB. You're not going to catch covid passing someone on a bike path. Outside. With fresh air.

Just now, JohnSnowsHair said:

Yup, somebody definitely pissed in his protein shake.

5'7" 185. I am considered overweight according to charts.

I accept my risks. I don't sugar coat others'.

21 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

Got it. So viral load matters after the vaccine, but not people that are perfectly healthy and pop a PCR positive after the Ct is 40+?

 

I'm not the one that's all over the place. Our freaking government keeps moving the goal posts. Two weeks to prepare hospitals. 150 weeks to fully vaccinate the entire population. Now they're pushing a facking vaccination card to gather in public?????

Yes that matters then too.  That's why you can be asymptomatic but still spread the virus.  That's literally the reason we're all wearing masks even if you don't have symptoms which you seem to be whining about.

You moved your goal posts to the vaccine not being a vaccine (it is), it changes your DNA (it doesn't), it changes your mRNA (it doesn't), to it being a fact that you can spread it after being vaccinated (it isn't) to now bishing about asymptomatic spreaders for some unknown reason.  All while talking down to people who clearly understand this crap better than you.  Grow up.

20 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

UNLESS YOU'RE OVER FIFTY.

 

Read, dope.

 

More MVA deaths and SUICIDE DEATHS in minors than COVID deaths.

 

F you for perpetuating this fear crap.

Ah so we're moving the goalposts to minors now I see.  Besides being Fing moronic comparison because 1) car accidents aren't infectious and 2) ignoring MASSIVE deaths in a group that makes up about 35% of the population (people over 50) is at best willful ignorance, as far as I'm aware the CDC also hasn't posted suicide numbers by age breakdown for 2020.  Nor can I find car deaths in 2020 breakdown by age. So where are you getting those numbers? 

You're the worst kind of moron, a confident one.

42 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Innoculate is more broad, introducing a pathogen to something else.  You can innoculate a person with a weakened disease ia vaccine but you can also innoculate a petri dish with a bacteria via swab.   Vaccinate is to introduce a substance (dead cell, protein, live attenuated virus, mRNA etc)  to the body with the goal to stimulate antibody and immune cell production against something.

Makes sense. I always thought of "inoculation" as an older term and associated it with the process used by Jenner, which squares with your description as technically being an inoculation, since he was basically just shooting people up with cowpox. I'm guessing that we don't really inject fully active viruses in people much anymore, so inoculation as a disease-prevention method is more or less obsolete.